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-   -   Trend of incidents/attacks at bases (http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=135592)

Streck-Fu 6 December 2019 12:00

Trend of incidents/attacks at bases
 
The shooting at Pearl Harbor was a Sailor so I'm leaving that out until a motive is announced.

But....Gate runner using vehicle at Robins AFB in Oct.... LINK

Gate runner at Little Creek-Ft. Story 2 December....LINK

Both speeding into the exit lanes.

Now a shooting at NAS Pensacola....LINK

Streck-Fu 6 December 2019 14:16

Pensacola shooter was a Saudi student.

From the NYTs so I won't link to prevent them getting clicks, but...

Quote:

Three people were shot dead early Friday at the Naval Air Station in Pensacola, Fla., and the gunman has been identified as a Saudi national, according to three sources familiar with the investigation.

Steve40th 6 December 2019 15:20

From FOXNEWS, https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-air...n-place-issued

CB 6 December 2019 16:58

Quote:

The shooter -- who was wielding a handgun, despite firearms not being allowed on base -- was confronted and taken out by a pair of responding officers, officials say.

Wow, I guess Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani didn't get the word.

Dan90 6 December 2019 19:12

RIP.

The Pensacola incident hits really close; it hasn’t been long at all since a lot of my buddies and myself went through there and had classes in those buildings, often with the Saudis. I’m glad the response was quick, because it could have been a lot worse at that time of day.

GirlwithaGlock 6 December 2019 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB (Post 1058829415)
Wow, I guess Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani didn't get the word.

I believe his presence at the base was a part of this effort:

Quote:

In June 2017, the United States approved the continuation of a blanket order training program that includes flight training, technical training, professional military education, specialized training, mobile training teams, and English language training, valued at $750 million.
I could think of a few better ways to spend $750 million.

Justaclerk 7 December 2019 04:18

This may not be a case of terrorism, I have a suspicion it may be related to his performance as a student pilot. No doubt his records are being checked.

Justaclerk 7 December 2019 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlwithaGlock (Post 1058829470)
I believe his presence at the base was a part of this effort:



I could think of a few better ways to spend $750 million.

The Saudis pay us to train them.

Steve40th 7 December 2019 07:09

I am sure, as stated above, it was a case of him failing out and he took it upon himself to kill those that failed him. But, the question remains, who gave him the weapon?

Steve40th 7 December 2019 07:14

Six saudis taken into custody. 3 were filming the incident.. Sounds like they were seeing how we react.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/break...-military-base

Justaclerk 7 December 2019 08:02

From a Fox article.

Quote:

Saudis have received training at the Pensacola site since the 1970s, with as many as 20 students from the Middle Eastern country in any given class, sources told Fox News. Many of the students are often from the Royal Family, putting pressure on officials to pass pilots through the training program in an attempt to preserve diplomacy with the U.S. ally.

Many U.S. military pilots have complained for decades that some of the Saudi pilots are not safe flyers, sources said.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...a-shooting.amp

KW Driver 7 December 2019 11:57

Yeah.... the Saudi/Mideast students rarely graduate as an honor grad. Most of them fail just enough to stay here has long as they possibly can.

If there were other students planning/watching/filming.... Seems more than just, “I’m mad I’m failing, and it’s their fault.”

Justaclerk 7 December 2019 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by KW Driver (Post 1058829574)
Yeah.... the Saudi/Mideast students rarely graduate as an honor grad. Most of them fail just enough to stay here has long as they possibly can.

If there were other students planning/watching/filming.... Seems more than just, “I’m mad I’m failing, and it’s their fault.”

Or the possibility they’re all failing and he drew the short straw on committing the act.

CV 7 December 2019 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justaclerk (Post 1058829520)
This may not be a case of terrorism, I have a suspicion it may be related to his performance as a student pilot. No doubt his records are being checked.

...and.... it's terrorism.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-air-station-shooter-manifesto-us-nation-of-evil

KW Driver 7 December 2019 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justaclerk (Post 1058829576)
Or the possibility they’re all failing and he drew the short straw on committing the act.

I just don’t buy a conspiracy of retaliation for being bad at the job, based on what I saw. maybe if they’re all in their own class. Not sure how the Navy runs theirs, but Army just stuck individuals into classes and they recycled phases until they got called home or eventually graduated.

School of the Americas ran their own program, in Spanish. AF did too (in AF I presume). But Europeans and Saudis were plugged into our classes individually.

If the Navy does the same, the Saudis had to have conspired on the attack. That speaks more to ideology than anger to me based on what I saw of them when I was in courses.

RemTech 7 December 2019 13:06

Back in the 80s we trained up a bunch of Bahrainis and then hosted their new jets for awhile - they were all a bunch of dicks - can't speak to their flying ability but they were horrible at following instructions and basic safety shit before or after a flight.

RIP to those killed and speedy recovery to the injured.

Dan90 7 December 2019 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by KW Driver (Post 1058829582)
I just don’t buy a conspiracy of retaliation for being bad at the job, based on what I saw. maybe if they’re all in their own class. Not sure how the Navy runs theirs, but Army just stuck individuals into classes and they recycled phases until they got called home or eventually graduated.

When I was there about two years ago, the Saudis got multiple attempts/recycles to pass their exams or events. All the classes were usually a mix of Navy, Marine, Coast Guard, and foreign students.

We also had French, Italian, Spanish, and a few other nationalities there; it seemed like their standards were more similar to ours.

hawkdrver 7 December 2019 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justaclerk (Post 1058829531)
Saudis have received training at the Pensacola site since the 1970s, with as many as 20 students from the Middle Eastern country in any given class, sources told Fox News. Many of the students are often from the Royal Family, putting pressure on officials to pass pilots through the training program in an attempt to preserve diplomacy with the U.S. ally.

Many U.S. military pilots have complained for decades that some of the Saudi pilots are not safe flyers, sources said.

That's spot on. Without exaggerating, In 25 years I may have heard of one military student pilot from the Middle East that didn't suck. I've seen them myself, and heard the same from literally every single guy I know that has instructed them since I went through in 1992. It's a work ethic and accountability thing, and it carries over to their follow on squadrons when they get back home.

During a Southern Watch deployment in Kuwait, I was BSing with a couple of former US Navy F-18 pilots that the Kuwaiti Air Force had hired as instructors. I asked how the Kuwaitis were and they said "They're fucking horrible. They're all in the royal family, half the time we can't fly the schedule because they don't bother to show up, and they're impossible to instruct. Keep your head on a swivel when they're airborne."

Couple days later, a two ship of hornets flew right through my tac 4 ship of A-10s, not on purpose, despite having one of the best airborne radars in the world at that time. Turned out, that sort of thing was not unusual. They're a fucking menace even without the jihad part.

I would also like to know where he got the gun.

SN 7 December 2019 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justaclerk (Post 1058829520)
This may not be a case of terrorism, I have a suspicion it may be related to his performance as a student pilot. No doubt his records are being checked.

It could have changed, but I doubt it; in the 80's policy was to not fail students from Muslim countries because they might be jailed upon return to the home country.

We figured they'd just kill themselves once they got home and everyone would blame Allah.

bobmueller 7 December 2019 16:00

One of the sailors killed at Pensacola was a recent USNA graduate, who just reported for flight training. He was OOD at the time of the attack, and though hit five times, still made contact with first responders to get an accurate description out of the attacker.

His uncle was a Desert Storm Marine vet.

Bravo Zulu, Ensign Joshua Kaleb Watson. Rest well. You earned it.

Quote:

Family members have identified Joshua Kaleb Watson, 23, a recent graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, as one of the victims of Friday’s shooting at Naval Air Station Pensacola.

“Joshua Kaleb Watson saved countless lives today with his own,” Adam Watson wrote late Friday. "After being shot multiple times he made it outside and told the first response team where the shooter was and those details were invaluable.

"He died a hero and we are beyond proud but there is a hole in our hearts that can never be filled.”

When reached by phone, Watson’s father, Benjamin, said his son was the officer on deck at the time of the shooting. Joshua Watson, who is called Kaleb by some family members, was shot at least five times, he said.

“Heavily wounded, he made his way out to flag down first responders and gave an accurate description of the shooter,” Benjamin Watson said. “He died serving his country.”

Benjamin Watson said his son had dreamed of becoming a Navy pilot and reported to Pensacola for flight training the week of Veterans Day.

A native of Enterprise, Alabama, about 125 miles northeast of Pensacola, Joshua was a natural leader, a huge Auburn football fan, and a person who put others first and strove to bring out the best in them, according to his family.

"Kaleb was starting grade school when Sept. 11 happened," his father said. "His uncle Richard Lindsay was a former Marine who served in (Operation) Desert Storm."

Lindsay was killed in a tragic vehicle accident, and his military service was an inspiration to Joshua.

"He's wanted to be in the military since he was 5 years old," his father said.

At the Naval Academy, Joshua was a small-arms instructor, a wrestling coach and a captain of the rifle team, his father said. With pride, Benjamin recounted that the Academy's rifle team had beaten the Army's for the first time in a decade under Joshua's leadership.

In the hours after the shootings, "I was texted by one of the officers who said Kaleb had saved lives," Benjamin Watson said.

He said two men had been killed at the scene of the attack, and that after Joshua spoke with law enforcement outside the training building, he was taken to Baptist Hospital. He later died of his wounds.

Michael Johnson, who lives next door to the Watsons, described the family as great neighbors. He said Joshua Watson was a kind and brave young man.

He said Joshua Watson once helped him rescue a neighbor’s German shepherd after it became entangled in a rope.

“He immediately jumped the fence, unclipped the thing and we left a little note for the owner,” Johnson recalled. “Amazing young man.”

Benjamin Watson said Joshua is survived by two older brothers, and that the best thing people can do for his family is to pray for everyone who was affected by the shooting.

"There are young sailors in the hospital fighting for their lives, and others in great pain and distress from the actions of this shooter," he said.

Pain, pride and solemnity heavy in his voice, Benjamin Watson said he wanted people to know the true story of his son's life.

"His mission was to confront evil," he said. "To bring the fight to them, wherever it took him. He was willing to risk his life for his country. We never thought he would die in Florida."

tm3e 7 December 2019 16:09

He explained his motivation on Twitter including quotes from Bin Laden and al-Awlaki.

Polypro 7 December 2019 17:12

Another Gun Free Kill Zone where only the Bad Guy ignored the "Gun Free" part. RIP peeps.

Steve40th 7 December 2019 17:22

Another report is these Saudis had a party prior to this where they watched mass shooting videos..
The Kingdom of Saudi apologized for this. They need to call their kids back and deal with them, Saudi Style, via beheading.

bigsapper 7 December 2019 17:47

I want to know how he acquired a gun.

KW Driver 7 December 2019 18:15

I want to know why sheriffs were first responders/wounded and not SP/DoD cops.

Steve40th 7 December 2019 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by KW Driver (Post 1058829650)
I want to know why sheriffs were first responders/wounded and not SP/DoD cops.

I am perplexed too. The MA's (Navy Cops) and DoD are patrolling all the damn time on bases..

leopardprey 7 December 2019 22:34

https://www.foxnews.com/us/naval-aca...t-5-times-hero

Rest In Peace. In your last minutes you proved you were a warrior and a man of honor.

Mars 7 December 2019 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopardprey (Post 1058829704)
...In your last minutes you proved you were a warrior and a man of honor.

Indeed he did. Rest In Peace, young Warrior....

grog18b 8 December 2019 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justaclerk (Post 1058829521)
The Saudis pay us to train them.

Are we only teaching them to take off?

MrMojok 8 December 2019 03:41

Cannot even put into words how heartwarming it was to see POTUS immediately accept the King's assurance that they were all horrified at the latest incident.

His immediate tweet about how sorry they were, and how much they intended to help, really made things better.

MrMojok 8 December 2019 05:10

I know some genius here is going to respond with some kind of DOORRGH, BLURGH, Saudi Arabia CLINTON Saudi Arabia OBAMA, same as it always was type of shit.

Can I head that off by saying fuck every single person that was ever born in Saudi Arabia, from today back to biblical times, fuck the Saudi nation today and whatever it has been called all throughout history. Fuck whatever history deems it to have achieved or invented, fuck all of those people and every single aspect of their civilization.

And fuck every single US president for the last sixty years, and US business and culture in general, who have had their tongues caught so far up Saudi ass, that you cannot tell where the US face ends and the Saudi asshole begins? Is that fair?

Steve40th 8 December 2019 07:31

According to this article, the shooter had a Glock 45 which he bough legally as he had a hunting license. Did not know non citizens can buy a hand gun in Florida. Yet, I as a out of state us citizen, even with a Florida non resident Concealed carry permit, can not buy a pistol.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shooting.html

Steve40th 8 December 2019 07:34

Two other victims were a Sailor named Mohammed Sameh Haitham, 19, and Cameron Scott Walters, 21, both sailors studying at the base. Supposedly Haitham charged at him too. Regardless, RIP brothers.. RIP

Steve40th 8 December 2019 15:36

ANd here is the law they just happen to know about to be able to purchase a firearm.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...immigrant-visa

MixedLoad 8 December 2019 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojok (Post 1058829751)
I know some genius here is going to respond with some kind of DOORRGH, BLURGH, Saudi Arabia CLINTON Saudi Arabia OBAMA, same as it always was type of shit.

Can I head that off by saying fuck every single person that was ever born in Saudi Arabia, from today back to biblical times, fuck the Saudi nation today and whatever it has been called all throughout history. Fuck whatever history deems it to have achieved or invented, fuck all of those people and every single aspect of their civilization.

And fuck every single US president for the last sixty years, and US business and culture in general, who have had their tongues caught so far up Saudi ass, that you cannot tell where the US face ends and the Saudi asshole begins? Is that fair?

I think you should make it known how you feel about the Saudis every now and then. Just so none of us will be confused about your position.

MrMojok 8 December 2019 22:19

I apologize for the gross rant.

MrMojok 9 December 2019 00:27

"Lieutenant Alshamrani reported that the confrontation came at the end of a meteorology class, when the instructor, James Day, asked whether students had any questions before he dismissed them.

The instructor then turned to Lieutenant Alshamrani and asked whether he had any questions, addressing him as “Porn Stash” — spelled that way in the complaint — in an apparent reference to the mustache of a porn actor."

Maybe we can put an end to this, by ceasing to TRIGGER them.

I don't know why a nation that cuts off hands for stealing and cuts up people with buzzsaws for espionage and effrontery and has laws that provide for stoning people to death would be so thin-skinned, but here we are

Gsniper 9 December 2019 07:04

I guess large groups of alleged alpha males are no longer allowed to insult each other.

If he was already carrying a gun in class he was just looking for a reason.

Justaclerk 9 December 2019 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojok (Post 1058829924)
"Lieutenant Alshamrani reported that the confrontation came at the end of a meteorology class, when the instructor, James Day, asked whether students had any questions before he dismissed them.

The instructor then turned to Lieutenant Alshamrani and asked whether he had any questions, addressing him as “Porn Stash” — spelled that way in the complaint — in an apparent reference to the mustache of a porn actor."

Maybe we can put an end to this, by ceasing to TRIGGER them.

I don't know why a nation that cuts off hands for stealing and cuts up people with buzzsaws for espionage and effrontery and has laws that provide for stoning people to death would be so thin-skinned, but here we are

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gsniper (Post 1058829939)
I guess large groups of alleged alpha males are no longer allowed to insult each other.

If he was already carrying a gun in class he was just looking for a reason.

A couple of points here.

1. Whenever and wherever I travel, I take the utmost care to learn about the audience I'm going to be training or working with in order to establish a viable long term relationship with the customer. Everyone here who's done area studies knows this is the key to a successful mission.

2. Years ago, there was a video posted of a T-38 instructor cursing out a Japanese Air Defense student because the latter didn't understand the urgent need to adjust the heat in the cockpit. At the time everyone thought the instructor was an assclown, but it turned out that this was a real safety issue as the back seater could have been overcome by the 200+ degree heat and the emergency procedure is to blow the canopy (the T-38 guys here can confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong).

On the other hand, a WX guy calling a student an offensive name in a controlled, non-threatening environment reeks of cultural insensitivity and going back to point one is beyond stupid. I'm pretty certain this wasn't a one off.

Lastly, the blame rests with the shitbag and it always will, but it also sounds like there's an instructor problem in terms of their ability to deliver training without insulting their foreign customers.

I'm also pretty certain the Navy-level training poohbahs are assessing this now.

Streck-Fu 9 December 2019 12:56

It is being reported that he was irate at getting the nickname (not callsign) by an instructor of "Porn Stash" which totally justifies murder.

LINK

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.co...trip=all&w=662


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