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-   -   AK and AR Pistols, thoughts and opinions? (http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=122465)

Grandpafork 24 December 2014 14:11

AK and AR Pistols, thoughts and opinions?
 
I really hate listening to civilians tell me how good any weapon is. These AK and AR pistols seem to be the big thing right now, but I'd like to get opinions from the forum. Especially anyone with a good deal of experience using them.

I fired about 10 rounds through an AK47 pistol. First thought, "what a large unmanageable, inaccurate...THING." It was heavy. I hit my target, but I've been shooting since I was 8, first fully automatic at 12. I can't see this being a reasonable weapon for most people and think it may just be because everyone has heard of AK47 and AR15. Kind of like people with no experience buying a Glock because it's the only name they've heard in the movies (not to say all you Glock lovers are wrong, I'm just a H&K guy).

What do all the experts out there think?

leopardprey 24 December 2014 14:14

Junk. Just a gimmick. You want a handgun, get a handgun. You want an AR or AK, get the full size rifle.

Hot Mess 24 December 2014 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopardprey (Post 1058444742)
Junk. Just a gimmick. You want a handgun, get a handgun. You want an AR or AK, get the full size rifle.

What LP said. Why anyone would want to be "kind of pregnant" is beyond me. Unless you have money to spend on such tripe. There is no Swiss Army Gun.

Nimja 24 December 2014 14:40

The AR pistol is the poor man's/or no paperwork version of an SBR (short barrel rifle). I built a 10.5" pistol and love it. Hits at 100 yds are simple and I have a total package almost a foot shorter than my 16" rifle (with the stock fully collapsed). The AK pistol is a little different due to the operating system and that the grip is basically the end of the weapon.

At any rate, like a Thompson Center Encore there are some advantages along with disadvantages. Rifle power (albeit reduced), with better portability (size and weight), but increased blast, noise and less stability.

iraqgunz 24 December 2014 15:08

An AR pistol makes sense now, if you use the Sig SB15 brace to cheat the system. That assumes you use a good barrel length like a 10.3"-12.5" that works.

Functionally an AR pistol and SBR are the same. The difference is the stock.

An AK pistol is good as a basis for building an SBR by having someone add a side folder to it, and it can be done cheap. I could recommend the AK pistol for much more than that unless there was a zombie apocalypse and it was a back up.

Fool_For_A_Client 24 December 2014 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopardprey (Post 1058444742)
Junk. Just a gimmick. You want a handgun, get a handgun. You want an AR or AK, get the full size rifle.

I guess it depends on which type of AR "pistol" you are talking about - a six inch barrel bufferless fire-breather, or something more akin to an sbr.

In regards to the former, I would agree. But with the Sig brace, which can be used as a stock, for now at least, you can have an AR, with a 10 or 11 inch barrel, that you can shoulder and maintain a decent cheek weld on. I shot one the other day with the sig brace and an 11 inch barrel and was ringing steel at 200 yards pretty easily. You're not going to do that with a handgun unless you're Jerry Miculek. And even then you are aiming several feet over the target.

Also, in many states, such as mine, you can't have a loaded rifle in your car, even if you have a CCW, but you can have a loaded AR "pistol" with a CCW. Oh, and you can cross state lines without asking the ATF for permission.

SOTB 24 December 2014 15:19

I agree with the guys who think such guns are toys/junks/etc....

Gsniper 24 December 2014 15:23

Shot a couple, not a fan. Kind of like having a TC with a 14 inch barrel, why not just use a rifle?

Grandpafork 24 December 2014 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraqgunz (Post 1058444760)
I could recommend the AK pistol for much more than that unless there was a zombie apocalypse and it was a back up.

I do like that you can get 1000 rounds of Russian ammo for a relatively low price even now. That's not to say each one of them will actually fire.

Grandpafork 24 December 2014 15:26

[QUOTE=Fool_For_A_Client;1058444765]I guess it depends on which type of AR "pistol" you are talking about - a six inch barrel bufferless fire-breather, or something more akin to an sbr./QUOTE]

I have a 6 1/2" .454 Casull for that. I have to admit, with 5 rounds in it it probably does come close to the weight of that AK I fired with a few rounds.

Grandpafork 24 December 2014 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gsniper (Post 1058444768)
Shot a couple, not a fan. Kind of like having a TC with a 14 inch barrel, why not just use a rifle?

My dad actually hunts deer, elk, and boar with his TC. :smile:

Nimja 24 December 2014 15:42

I dont use the Sig brace but use the pistol buffer tube covered in foam with some neoprene donuts they sell. It'll still shoulder and with a little practice is pretty useable. I didnt believe either until a buddy offered to let me shoot his through a rifle match. After that I immediately started collecting parts and put it together.

Grandpafork 24 December 2014 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimja (Post 1058444776)
After that I immediately started collecting parts and put it together.

Thanks for the input Nimja. What kind did you build? What did you start with?

Nimja 24 December 2014 16:56

IraqGunz is the smart guy to recommend parts and pieces. I built a stripped lower (Stag) that had never been assembled as a rifle (legally important - in my case it had never been assembled as anything) with a Rock River Arms (RRA) pistol tube and an Exile Machine foam cover and donuts. The rest is odds and ends I had laying around.

What you need is a good quality upper. I went with a 10.5" barrel as it is a good balance between size/handling and velocity (although there is a trend for 11.5"+). Mine was a Sabre Defence that I dremel'ed down the gas block/front sight to fit a Troy VTAC free float tube. As per IG's guidance it did require an H3 buffer.

The muzzle device is of some argue as some guys want to direct the significant blast away from the shooter. The Noveske KX3 does this (heavy though.. about a 1/2 pound) as well as some other devices but mine came with an (unusual) flash hider that does an excellent job of flash reduction with the 10.5" barrel. The blast and noise isn't terrible. (And with all things there is a compromise, as the KX3 was nice!... but heavy!)

It weighs 7.5 lbs as in the picture with a full mag. MP5 sized, but shoots rifle bullets... It's handy. ;)

https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/ar...n24ibq6s4jdc22

Semp 24 December 2014 17:21

I had a KelTec PLR-16 for awhile. Way too loud, not too accurate, more of a toy play thing. Back during the gun frenzy I found someone who wanted it a whole lot more than me and away it went.

leopardprey 24 December 2014 18:16

If you want a "Legal" SBR, then go with a Steyr Aug. 16.5" barrel, yet only 26" overall. Accurate, balance ( hec, you can easily shoot one handed if you wanted to for fun) and control, comfortable shoulder pad, reliable, many different rail and optic options. Can swap out the 16.5" barrel for longer barrels in about 10 seconds ( I personally prefer the 18" barrels - but you can have 16.5", 18, 20, and 24" barrels).

That is what I did, got rid of my AR platforms and have several Steyrs now. I am a big fan.

But, is personal preference. Just my $0.02.

leopardprey 24 December 2014 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimja (Post 1058444790)
IraqGunz is the smart guy to recommend parts and pieces. I built a stripped lower (Stag) that had never been assembled as a rifle (legally important - in my case it had never been assembled as anything) with a Rock River Arms (RRA) pistol tube and an Exile Machine foam cover and donuts. The rest is odds and ends I had laying around.

What you need is a good quality upper. I went with a 10.5" barrel as it is a good balance between size/handling and velocity (although there is a trend for 11.5"+). Mine was a Sabre Defence that I dremel'ed down the gas block/front sight to fit a Troy VTAC free float tube. As per IG's guidance it did require an H3 buffer.

The muzzle device is of some argue as some guys want to direct the significant blast away from the shooter. The Noveske KX3 does this (heavy though.. about a 1/2 pound) as well as some other devices but mine came with an (unusual) flash hider that does an excellent job of flash reduction with the 10.5" barrel. The blast and noise isn't terrible. (And with all things there is a compromise, as the KX3 was nice!... but heavy!)

It weighs 7.5 lbs as in the picture with a full mag. MP5 sized, but shoots rifle bullets... It's handy. ;)

https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/ar...n24ibq6s4jdc22

Good info. Thanks.

AZ5326 24 December 2014 18:56

Sig Brace + AR-15 "pistol" = SBR sized truck gun that doesn't involve notifying the Feds, losing your $200 tax stamp, and time/paperwork asspain if it is ever stolen or destroyed. Oh, and you can take it over state lines without having to ask for permission to exercise your rights from the ATF.

So far those are the only advantages to an AR pistol I have found.

iraqgunz 24 December 2014 18:58

True. And the cocksuckers at NFA branch are dragging their feet on approving 5320.20's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ5326 (Post 1058444807)
Sig Brace + AR-15 "pistol" = SBR sized truck gun that doesn't involve notifying the Feds, losing your $200 tax stamp, and time/paperwork asspain if it is ever stolen or destroyed. Oh, and you can take it over state lines without having to ask for permission to exercise your rights from the ATF.

So far those are the only advantages to an AR pistol I have found.


Nimja 24 December 2014 19:23

Leopardprey, I'm in total agreement. The bullpup (in this case Steyr Aug) has the compactness but retains full size rifle ballistics (velocity). I do like the standard controls of the AR series and it can be cheaper to get multiple uppers for one lower.. This absolutely never happens for me as if I have a lower around it gets built, then gets an upper and if I have an upper than it gets a lower.. so they act more as enablers for my habit. I did shoot a buddies TAVOR, but the weight of the gun and the heavy trigger made me like my AR pistol much better.

I shot the MSAR a bit and as I understand it, it is very similar to the AUG. I liked it, but also like the commonality/flexibility of the AR series.

My cousin and a buddy have done a bunch of hunting with T/C Encores. Whitetail, hog, bear, varmints with multiple calibers from .223 to .308 and higher. The guns require some developed skill to shoot well, but I like multiple rounds. One day I'd like to build a 1/8" Wylde chamber, SS AR Pistol with a great trigger that shoots sub MOA.. With the right weight/magnification scope you could have a pretty capable platform that does a lot of the basic stuff really well. But that is a ways down the road...


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