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-   -   Civil Affairs - Unauthorized Ops - Schools (http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=125785)

Nimja 3 December 2015 04:43

Civil Affairs - Unauthorized Ops - Schools
 
So.. this popped up, in the news closer to my neck of the woods. While trying not to grab a tinfoil hat (of a different nature) I find it interesting to view the surveillance photo, and note that the operations were "unauthorized". Soldiers being proactive or some sort of pre attack surveillance? I assume it really requires personal knowledge of the soldiers involved.. But I'm curious to hear the opinions of others on the board.

"Commanders of the operation stated despite failing to notify the county in general, the three soldiers were not authorized to visit any schools as that was not part of the Global Reaction Force Operation Plan. Command reports that the three soldiers who took it upon themselves to visit the schools had good intentions and did not mean to cause such as scare."

http://www.carolinacoastonline DOT com/news_times/article_d9f6aa1e-994f-11e5-849f-b7a25c9aa517.html

Purple36 3 December 2015 07:03

No tinfoil hat needed. LOL, you really want to avoid hot zones during training, i.e.; schools, banks, government facilities. Good intentions, poor execution...lesson learned I suppose. Unfortunately, it will rile up the conspiracy theorists.

37F5V 3 December 2015 08:04

Oh it'll rile up more than the conspiracy theorists... Dumb, da dumb, dumb, duuuumb.....

MakoZeroSix 3 December 2015 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimja (Post 1058525459)
So.. this popped up, in the news closer to my neck of the woods. While trying not to grab a tinfoil hat (of a different nature) I find it interesting to view the surveillance photo, and note that the operations were "unauthorized". Soldiers being proactive or some sort of pre attack surveillance? I assume it really requires personal knowledge of the soldiers involved.. But I'm curious to hear the opinions of others on the board.

"Commanders of the operation stated despite failing to notify the county in general, the three soldiers were not authorized to visit any schools as that was not part of the Global Reaction Force Operation Plan. Command reports that the three soldiers who took it upon themselves to visit the schools had good intentions and did not mean to cause such as scare."

http://www.carolinacoastonline DOT com/news_times/article_d9f6aa1e-994f-11e5-849f-b7a25c9aa517.html

Yeah, I'd take a look at what you posted, but am unwilling to spend like 10 minutes unfucking it so my browser will actually open it.

How about an actual link next time.

Nimja 3 December 2015 11:33

http://www.carolinacoastonline.com/n...25c9aa517.html

Take out the DOT. I have seen it as a trend on SOCNET and figured it was because some people didn't want to click on links they couldn't read. But it is easier to post the link.

What do you think? I know we have had gang affiliation issues, is this the newest group of problems? Like a Maj Hasan type issue?

Purple36 3 December 2015 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimja (Post 1058525549)
http://www.carolinacoastonline.com/n...25c9aa517.html

Take out the DOT. I have seen it as a trend on SOCNET and figured it was because some people didn't want to click on links they couldn't read. But it is easier to post the link.

What do you think? I know we have had gang affiliation issues, is this the newest group of problems? Like a Maj Hasan type issue?

What are you talking about?

Nimja 4 December 2015 13:13

So are these guys potentially, radical islam supporters, are they stepping out of mission roles IOT plan a future attack? Did the police/mil say, "Hey, no big deal, these guys are soldiers, it's all good." and stop there? Why are they going "the extra mile" to expand the scope of their operations, when it is off the focus of their mission profile? Just as we have gang members in our military what is the likely possibility that we currently have radical islam members in our military, and how is this being addressed?

As I said you would probably have to know the unit and the folks in it, which I don't, but there are some curious details, and like Ahmed the clock boy, what were these guys potentially thinking that would make this, make sense to them?

MakoZeroSix 4 December 2015 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimja (Post 1058525942)
So are these guys potentially, radical islam supporters, are they stepping out of mission roles IOT plan a future attack? Did the police/mil say, "Hey, no big deal, these guys are soldiers, it's all good." and stop there? Why are they going "the extra mile" to expand the scope of their operations, when it is off the focus of their mission profile? Just as we have gang members in our military what is the likely possibility that we currently have radical islam members in our military, and how is this being addressed?

As I said you would probably have to know the unit and the folks in it, which I don't, but there are some curious details, and like Ahmed the clock boy, what were these guys potentially thinking that would make this, make sense to them?

OMFG Stawp already. This is just run of the mil CA type stuff.

SOTB 4 December 2015 14:21

I am with Purple and Mako -- but I admit that while I believe they are completely correct (well, I think I understand where Purple is going), I have to think that sadly (logically), the horse has left the barn on this.

What I mean is that Muslims didn't do enough when they should have and now we openly have mil types questioning the motivations and actions of their fellow mil types. This won't get any better, I think.

Right, wrong, prejudiced, unfair -- it makes no fucking difference -- Muslims sat on their asses too long and now I think the pendulum is gaining speed and headed to the other end of the swing -- the travel there may not be pretty....

jdogonroad 4 December 2015 15:01

Three overenthusiastic dumbasses with good intentions gone wrong. Nothing to see here.

One of them was probably in his rating period!;) Good Evals are hard to come by in a draw down.:eek:

DC 4 December 2015 15:04

I don't mean to say that I think these guys were up to no good but let's say we fast forward a few months and these clowns had done something nefarious stemming from this "visit." How many folks would be saying "OMG why didn't anyone do something when the writing was on the wall?"

Humans have survival instincts and part of that is scanning for threats. When you are no longer allowed to put 2 and 2 together because it's oh so paranoid or mean spirited you have surrendered your security to people who could care less about your security. Example: me not locking my doors while I am driving around a known high risk neighborhood because I'm told it's bigoted and hateful.

And what may seem like paranoia to security professionals on this board (Jade Helm) may be more like rationale risk mitigation amongst folks who don't do this stuff for a living and who are constantly being fed images of men from the ME doing very bad things.

Nimja 4 December 2015 16:26

I appreciate the thoughts. With little kids in school, it doesn't take much to make me concerned. Judging from community response to national (and local) news, there is a lot of wariness. I think lots of people are waiting for the other shoe to drop... The question is where.

Purple36 4 December 2015 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimja (Post 1058525942)
So are these guys potentially, radical islam supporters, are they stepping out of mission roles IOT plan a future attack? Did the police/mil say, "Hey, no big deal, these guys are soldiers, it's all good." and stop there? Why are they going "the extra mile" to expand the scope of their operations, when it is off the focus of their mission profile? Just as we have gang members in our military what is the likely possibility that we currently have radical islam members in our military, and how is this being addressed?

As I said you would probably have to know the unit and the folks in it, which I don't, but there are some curious details, and like Ahmed the clock boy, what were these guys potentially thinking that would make this, make sense to them?

What Mako said. This is nothing unusual. Especially around here. They are not radical Islam, they are not gang bangers, they were CA soldiers in a training exercise. They just didn't understand the heightened state of awareness due to school shootings and should have not gone to a school that was not part of the exercise. This is not an unusual event. These exercises have been held for years and years and occasionally the appropriate coordination does not occur or a student does a stupid. Nothing more to it and there is nothing more to say about it.

37F5V 4 December 2015 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdogonroad (Post 1058525977)
Three overenthusiastic dumbasses with good intentions gone wrong. Nothing to see here.

One of them was probably in his rating period!;) Good Evals are hard to come by in a draw down.:eek:

I'd say that we have a winner here... I've yet to see any traffic come down from this, but I expect that something will come down in a week or two. I also expect that the evaluation won't reflect quite the way the first guy on the blame line anticipated.

Bellerophon 4 December 2015 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple36 (Post 1058525467)
No tinfoil hat needed. LOL, you really want to avoid hot zones during training, i.e.; schools, banks, government facilities. Good intentions, poor execution...lesson learned I suppose. Unfortunately, it will rile up the conspiracy theorists.

I couldn't agree more. These guys were trying to do, "What they thought" is their mission during a Training Op. Piss poor briefing and a visit from the good idea fairy are probably to blame.

We were always, and always gave an unequivocal "You will ONLY visit, interact with or photograph the SPECIFIC locations detailed below" type warning. Yeah we had one or two "photo recon" good idea incidents but nothing like this.

IDK, probably better to learn this as a fast & hard lesson here for the unit/team than trying to explain to an ambassador or CJTF-whomever that "We only stopped because we saw that it was on the way to ____." as you are getting kicked out of your AO because of the good idea fairy. This is an exaggerated example, but people really act like frightened animals. You never know what your impact may be; once I had people asking me if it was safe to keep building their homes because the rumor was we were scouting for a .mil base location.

Frightened by an off breeze or new face, it's the human condition. Worry and paranoia are not just an American thing.

I have a two cent opinion as to why situations like this stateside one happen as a result of the curriculum, but my experience in CA comes from a short lived, poorly conceived and expediently terminated command. Go Navy.

Bellerophon 4 December 2015 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC (Post 1058525980)
I don't mean to say that I think these guys were up to no good but let's say we fast forward a few months and these clowns had done something nefarious stemming from this "visit." How many folks would be saying "OMG why didn't anyone do something when the writing was on the wall?"

Humans have survival instincts and part of that is scanning for threats. When you are no longer allowed to put 2 and 2 together because it's oh so paranoid or mean spirited you have surrendered your security to people who could care less about your security. Example: me not locking my doors while I am driving around a known high risk neighborhood because I'm told it's bigoted and hateful.

And what may seem like paranoia to security professionals on this board (Jade Helm) may be more like rationale risk mitigation amongst folks who don't do this stuff for a living and who are constantly being fed images of men from the ME doing very bad things.

See my previous response. All parents and people feel the same as you do about their homes and neighborhoods. It is the human response. There is nothing wrong with a knee jerk. New guys gotta learn and I would guess that these "select few" are learning the hard way right now. The expense to local parents seems completely unintentional.

Should they have done it? No. Do things like this happen? Yes. Could it be worse? Certainly. I saw stupid shit like teams loading their body armor into the vans to go do training ops like this one. Imagine how stupid this situation would be if a plate carrier fell out as they were getting in to leave a "good idea stop" at the local elementary school. Holy Christ.

Granted I was witnessing Fleet Navy in action so the stupid detector had to be set to SUPER MAXIMUM POWER but CA is a game of military to social interaction. Even if the CA mission is to assist civilians; why should they believe us?

Don't sweat being paranoid. Even with the best intentions most (for good reason) find the presence of CA folks unsettling at best.

SFC_SOF_Intel 7 July 2016 20:10

When I went through the CA Course back in the day (pre-1995), the assessment exercise portion of the course was conducted in Greenville. We worked closely with local officials and provided them with a "free" report that they could use to improve planning efforts. There wasn't the high level of hysteria that now exists around anything military rearing it's ugly head in Hometown U.S.A.

Fast forward to present day. Not only are active duty civil affairs resources being increased, presumably for a variety of global missions to include those related to NORTHCOM/DHS, but apparently they operate under less than desirable command structure due to increasingly liberal use of federal troops in support of these same domestic programs.

The number of "exercises" being conducted by federal resources on U.S. soil in recent years is being seen as a threat by many "tin foil hat" wearers across the country. If I had any criticism, it would be to question the veracity of what the public is being told about the increase of federal military response in an area that traditionally had been the role of our State-controlled citizen-soldier brethren in the Guard, disaster response.


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