SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network

SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network (http://www.socnet.com/index.php)
-   Weapons (http://www.socnet.com/forumdisplay.php?f=228)
-   -   1911 discussion (http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=122384)

leopardprey 16 December 2014 21:06

1911 discussion
 
Who here is a 1911 fan and why? What manufacturer/models do you prefer and why? Carry for a CCW and why?

Cheers.

AZ5326 16 December 2014 21:37

I'm a fan, but it's not my primary "go-to" pistol. I have a couple, and even my Wilson Combat CQB isn't 100 percent reliable, especially if I go for more than 500 or so rounds without changing out the recoil spring.

It caries well even if it's a tad heavy. The single stack frame is slim enough to conceal well especially with an inside the waistband holster.

Pros: superb trigger pull. Nice big fat chunk of lead heading downrange. The ideal manual safety placement, created the standard'
Cons: Not as reliable as some more modern designs (I'm thinking "Glock" here). More finicky when dirty, not much tolerance for dirt in the action.

It has some serious history behind it. Every gun guy should own one.

Xdeth 16 December 2014 21:55

Top reasons to love the 911; mods! It's the Chevy small block of pistols with unlimited customizations, parts, makers, and build know how. History, it has it. It can be at lethal as hell and a real nail driver at the same time. Looks great, feels great, what's not to like. I like the genuine Colt out of the box then replace the pieces, which is most of it usually. I like looking at the blued Colt skeleton, guess I'm a snob wanting the brand.

When I did carry I carried a Glock but I never loved it like the Colts I had, reasons weight size and capacity along within 9mm being good enough for street carry.

Whitebean54 16 December 2014 22:13

First pistol I ever bought was a Rock Island 1911. Still like it but carry a Glock more than anything.

bigsapper 16 December 2014 22:21

Fan. Ergonomics and slim profile.

I carry a Colt Gunsite CCO. Never had a hiccup but I've only fired about 500 rounds.

Had a fullsize Colt 70 done up by Yost-Bonitz that was a thing of beauty. Sold it tho. Also had a Colt New Agent that had a few tweaks from the Custom Shop. Both were great carry guns but I just prefer the CCO form factor.

Tried a Glock once upon a time but just didn't like it.

10thvet 16 December 2014 22:45

I have a Springfield Armory-Fully loaded 1911 I love it but sometimes it can be finicky when it comes to feeding reloaded or cheap ammo. I have about a 1000 rounds thru it and still discovering the weapon and making it mine. I love the .45 and the large holes it makes in paper. I use it when I shoot IDPA so I can see the holes it makes :) My son and IDPA shooting partner calls my 1911 the pretty girl at a party that won't drink BPR.

I do not have a problem shooting my 1911 dirty but dry is another story. Prior to one IDPA contest, I went to a indoor range and put 200 rounds thru it. I put a drop or two of oil on the slide and then went to shoot IDPa and put another 120ish rounds thru it. No issues other than the reloaded ammo not feeding and a cheap magazine that is now my Barney mag.

I don't carry CCW but would have not have a problem with doing it with my 1911. I would need an IWB holster since it is a bulky weapon and although I do have an ever increasing waistline, I am not a large person.

I bought a 1911 simply because I always wanted one since all my military heroes always carried one

The Fat Guy 16 December 2014 23:04

I am primarily a Kimber fan, but I also have an Ed Brown Kobra Karry. I CCW several of the Kimbers, my favorite is my Ultra Super Carry.

havok88 16 December 2014 23:29

I have a coule kimbers myself, and love them both. The 1911 frame is very comfortable in my hands and the crisp trigger is second to none. I dont use it for ccw because the sharp edge of the mainspring housing rubs on me and can be quite uncomfortable. Im also not a big fan of thumb safeties.

leopardprey 17 December 2014 04:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Hc2Fchu9s

Thought this was pretty awesome.

The Fat Guy 17 December 2014 06:17

I guess we have come a long way.... In some ways.

leopardprey 17 December 2014 06:32

Our techniques are definitely different now. But, in many ways, what they did and trained for then seemed to work. Seems like back then, besides the emphasis on shooting one handed, dropping and shooting from the prone - there also was a big emphasis on just point and shoot/reflex shooting.

Watching this video, did give me an idea. With all the high speed "operator" tactical shooting courses going on - maybe I should advertise a "Old school" shooting/training course. ;)


"Learn how to shoot a 1911 like the Greatest Generation did, when men where hard and going into harm's way".

I still have my Father's 1911 USMC leather holster he wore back in the early 1950s. Will have to strap it on and go practice "old school" at the range here within the next week or so, for the fun of it. Take Dad out and let him do it also, he will enjoy that.

AustinPT 17 December 2014 06:44

I shoot a semi-custom built Fusion Scout for IDPA, and have a first generation Kimber CDP and second gen Kimber Ultra that I carry on occasion. I found that reliability improved significantly when I started using a case gauge with my handloads. I usually find 3 or 4 pieces of brass out of 100 that are out of spec and get tossed. Wondering if the new Springfield XD-S 4 inch might become the ultimate compromise - 1911 slimness, plastic gun reliability?

GPC 17 December 2014 08:46

My first handgun was a Colt Combat Elite I bought on Guam.Put just shy of 10k through it no problems.At the time 1991 my battalion was still using 1911s.

On return from Iraq treated myself to a Wilson CQB which has had Glock like reliability. I also have a Protector and a SA Operator Champion.
I carry my Wilson's IWB in a CB Supertuck I tend to carry 1911s more in fall/winter.

tooslow 17 December 2014 08:56

I started out with a S&W 1917 in .45 ACP.
I switched to a Taurus 6" .357; it stretched!
I traded up for a S&W 686; terrific.
I won a 1911 in a completion and had it built up,
by a custom gunsmith, for IPSC.
With Hogue grips, that gun is an extension of my arm/hand; simply perfect. The only other gun that I've used that felt as natural as the 1911 was the H&K .45 Tactical; another natural pointer, in my hand.
The years are taking their toll, and I'm having difficulty CCW'ing the 1911.
I see that it is time to switch to something lighter, to carry, but I'll ne'er part with the 1911.

dbuck1031 17 December 2014 10:37

Kimber SIS Custom, Kimber Super Carry Ultra, Kimber Pro Shadow II (368 of 500), Kimber Covert Ultra, Kimber Tactical II, Wilson Combat CQB, Ed Brown Kobra Karry, Ed Brown Kobra, Dan Wesson ECO, Dan Wesson Valor, Coonan Cadet, Coonan Classic.

So I guess you could call me a "fan". Out of these, the Dan Wesson's, have never had any issue, at all, period. The Kimber Pro Shadow II has been the most reliable out of my Kimber's. The rest have had anywhere from minor issues to outright failures of some kind or another, but have all been resolved.

I carry an M&P9, due to the fact that it holds more ammo, is a bit lighter, and will not be missed if taken into evidence if it does have to be used.

I used to carry my DW ECO, and Kimber Super Carry Ultra, until it was brought to my attention that if used in a SD situation, the pistol will be confiscated and held until no-billed, or indefinitely if convicted...so that had an impact on my way of thinking. Also, when asking a local LEO, I was informed the weapons are not cared for at all, and even if/when you get your weapon back, it could be in pretty rough shape when returned.

275RLTW 17 December 2014 11:10

Les Baer. Better accuracy than any other 1911 (1.5 in at 50 yds guaranteed) and less money than other comparable ones. I've never had a malfunction with factory ammo with any Les Baer.

dbuck1031 17 December 2014 11:25

Any quality 1911 ($1500+ range) should get you to 1.5 inch groups at 50 yds. All mine can achieve that, we shoot 4 inch clay pigeons at 50 yards off hand with my pistols. Most accurate? S&W M&P CORE .40 with Trijicon RMR 6.5, nails them every single time, feels like your cheating.

Please don't get me wrong, Les Baer does make a fine pistol, but, when I read this:

Les Baer Custom, Inc. has elected not to provide any written warranty, either “limited” or “full”

I decided to go with other makers. It kind of makes me question the "guaranteed 1.5 inches at 50 yds" claim when they can't offer me a written warranty. Makes the "guarantee" kind of worthless. Also, how can they guarantee the accuracy of their product if they do not know my shooting techniques? So, if I buy their pistol, with their guarantee, and no warranty, when I cannot achieve the 1.5 inches at 50 yards, due to my lack of shooting ability, they can tell me to pound sand.

As for the customization of the 1911 platform, my wife says my 1911's are my "paper dolls", with as many grips, triggers, main spring housing, safeties, etc. that have been at one time or another changed out.

Also, forgot to add the Springfield EMP in 9mm, probably one of the best 1911's I have owned in both carry, accuracy, reliability, and fit/finish. That one was "borrowed" by the lady of the house and not been returned, and she is not a 1911 "fan".

Dark Helmet 17 December 2014 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbuck1031 (Post 1058442787)
Les Baer does make a fine pistol, but, when I read this:

Les Baer Custom, Inc. has elected not to provide any written warranty, either “limited” or “full”

I decided to go with other makers.

Don't believe everything you read: http://www.socnet.com/showpost.php?p...0&postcount=31

Dark Helmet 17 December 2014 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbuck1031 (Post 1058442787)
Any quality 1911 ($1500+ range) should get you to 1.5 inch groups at 50 yds.

I do not want to start an argument here, but the key word here is "should". Fewer can than cannot.

dbuck1031 17 December 2014 11:46

If that is indeed the case, my Christmas list just changed and got a LOT shorter.....I've looked at them before, but the implication of the "No Warranty" always made me pause and reconsider.

Thanks for the clarification on that. I'll post pics if Santa says "ok".

And yes, that was why I used "should", no argument needed....I agree totally with that.

RangerCharlie 17 December 2014 11:52

Colt 1911 in Super 38.
This is one of the few pistols I can consistently hit with. Just feels natural

dbuck1031 17 December 2014 12:08

I was looking at getting the DW Guardian in .38 Super.....but thanks to Dark Helmet, been shopping Les Baer's this morning. And "Santa's" response was "Oh, you mean you're going to shop for, pick out, and buy your present? And I'm not involved, and don't have to be dragged to every gun store in Dallas/Ft Worth? Knock yourself out. You DO know this counts as Christmas AND B-Day, right?" She's a peach.

leopardprey 17 December 2014 12:39

Came across this review, comparing several 1911s (DW, Les Baer, SA) of similar cost/options. Some of the info I was looking for at least. Continually being impressed by all I am reading and feedback I am getting on the Dan Wesson Specialist and Valors. Think one of those is going to be finding a new home real soon. Was considering a Springfield Armory TRP at first, but then the Dan Wessons have sparked my interest.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=321236

Had a Kimber 12 years ago, shot well, should have not sold it. Had a Ed Brown, but within a few hundred rounds, the thumb safety cracked. And the extractor/ejector had issues, as was getting pinged in the forehead with the brass. Brown fixed it, but kind of soured it for me, so sold. Had a Wilson Combat, very nice in many aspects in terms of finish and fit. But, had a bunch of FTFs, so again kind of ruined it for me - being as expensive of a gun as it was, so sold it also (good thing on the Brown and the Wilson, got all my money back when sold). Have a couple of friends that are really into Les Baers. Pretty tight though initially. May consider a Les Baer in the future as well.

SOTB 17 December 2014 12:44

If I were in the market for a 1911, I'd either steal one of TFG's older Kimbers or buy a new (or used) SA Loaded....

275RLTW 17 December 2014 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbuck1031 (Post 1058442787)
Any quality 1911 ($1500+ range) should get you to 1.5 inch groups at 50 yds. All mine can achieve that, we shoot 4 inch clay pigeons at 50 yards off hand with my pistols. Most accurate? S&W M&P CORE .40 with Trijicon RMR 6.5, nails them every single time, feels like your cheating.

Please don't get me wrong, Les Baer does make a fine pistol, but, when I read this:

Les Baer Custom, Inc. has elected not to provide any written warranty, either “limited” or “full”



I decided to go with other makers. It kind of makes me question the "guaranteed 1.5 inches at 50 yds" claim when they can't offer me a written warranty. Makes the "guarantee" kind of worthless. Also, how can they guarantee the accuracy of their product if they do not know my shooting techniques? So, if I buy their pistol, with their guarantee, and no warranty, when I cannot achieve the 1.5 inches at 50 yards, due to my lack of shooting ability, they can tell me to pound sand.

As for the customization of the 1911 platform, my wife says my 1911's are my "paper dolls", with as many grips, triggers, main spring housing, safeties, etc. that have been at one time or another changed out.

Also, forgot to add the Springfield EMP in 9mm, probably one of the best 1911's I have owned in both carry, accuracy, reliability, and fit/finish. That one was "borrowed" by the lady of the house and not been returned, and she is not a 1911 "fan".

You're confusing the ability of the weapon and your abilities. Hitting a 4" circle at 50 yards is more than twice less accurate than 1.5" at the same distance. I've never seen an M&P CORE on the line at Camp Perry but there are hundreds of Les Baers (more than any other brand).

JAFO 17 December 2014 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOTB (Post 1058442810)
If I were in the market for a 1911, I'd either steal one of TFG's older Kimbers or buy a new (or used) SA Loaded....

Exactly.

My first 1911 was a Kimber Custom II, made when they were in Oregon. I've had a couple Kimbers since then that I have either sold or returned for QC issues. One of which went to the guys at Wilson Combat for anodizing and Armor Coating.

I now have a Spingfieled TRP that I love. It is a good CCW wep, but the weight can be a bit much for extended periods of time, unlike a Glock

leopardprey 17 December 2014 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerCharlie (Post 1058442795)
Colt 1911 in Super 38.
This is one of the few pistols I can consistently hit with. Just feels natural

Been wanting a .38 super for a long time, have heard nothing but good things regarding that caliber.

Gunk 17 December 2014 14:03

I've got a Colt series 70 and an early 1997 Kimber. Both excellent handguns. Due to the weight and capacity factors, I typically carry my G23 and leave the 1911's in the safe.

After carrying 1911's for many years I'd really like a lightweight commander.
The Colt "Wiley Clapp" lightweight commander I've seen on gunbroker is very appealing. It's easy to carry and has most of what I need built in without the custom gun cost and aggravation.

dbuck1031 17 December 2014 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by 275RLTW (Post 1058442814)
You're confusing the ability of the weapon and your abilities. Hitting a 4" circle at 50 yards is more than twice less accurate than 1.5" at the same distance. I've never seen an M&P CORE on the line at Camp Perry but there are hundreds of Les Baers (more than any other brand).

From Baer:
All Les Baer pistols come with a guarantee of at least 3" accuracy at 50 yards, and many models are available at extra cost ($295.00) with a guarantee of 1.5" at the same distance.[

And I am happy for shooters at Camp Perry. My point was that there are other firearms out there, even "Tupperware" that can claim the same accuracy that is guaranteed by Baer.

Also, I have asked specifically about the 1.5 inch accuracy today, and the response I got from a Baer rep was "Yes, if you buy one of the guaranteed pistols, it should be able to shoot as advertised, if not, you can send it in, and we will make sure it can shoot as advertised when we send it back". I asked if these results were from bench rest or off hand, and was informed these were mechanical bench rest results.

Not trying to ruffle feathers about Baer, hell, I'm shopping for one now, my point was to illustrate that their "offering" of a 1.5 inch gun at 50 yards for an upsell in price should not be a deciding factor as other platforms can, and DO, offer the same performance.

275RLTW 17 December 2014 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbuck1031 (Post 1058442835)
From Baer:
All Les Baer pistols come with a guarantee of at least 3" accuracy at 50 yards, and many models are available at extra cost ($295.00) with a guarantee of 1.5" at the same distance.[

And I am happy for shooters at Camp Perry. My point was that there are other firearms out there, even "Tupperware" that can claim the same accuracy that is guaranteed by Baer.

Also, I have asked specifically about the 1.5 inch accuracy today, and the response I got from a Baer rep was "Yes, if you buy one of the guaranteed pistols, it should be able to shoot as advertised, if not, you can send it in, and we will make sure it can shoot as advertised when we send it back". I asked if these results were from bench rest or off hand, and was informed these were mechanical bench rest results.

Not trying to ruffle feathers about Baer, hell, I'm shopping for one now, my point was to illustrate that their "offering" of a 1.5 inch gun at 50 yards for an upsell in price should not be a deciding factor as other platforms can, and DO, offer the same performance.

I'm not trying to derail here but name ANY other company that guarantees that (provide a link to prove it). I have never found another. Even Wilson stops at 2" @ 25 yds. While I may not be able to shoot as well as my Les Baers, I know that any issues with accuracy is not me outperforming my equipment. Again, you seem to equate a machine's capability to your physical ability (or inability). If you are happy with hitting clays with your CORE all day long then you wouldn't be asking about 1911s, nor telling people who know more than you about the particular subject that they are wrong.

dbuck1031 17 December 2014 14:44

Actually Wilson and Nighthawk claims 1" at 25 yards, but whatever. In my original post I state:

Any quality 1911 ($1500+ range) should get you to 1.5 inch groups at 50 yds. All mine can achieve that, we shoot 4 inch clay pigeons at 50 yards off hand with my pistols.

I was merely throwing the CORE in the mix to show that accuracy can be achieved with other platforms and should not be the ONLY determining factor when looking at manufacturers. Hell, if I want to spend $4K plus on a 100 yard 1911, I'll order an Accuracy X. It's about the individual and what they are looking for in a pistol. This is one reason I hate manufacturer fanboys, they get stuck in the mindset that their decision is better than anyone else's, and woe be to them that speaketh up against their almighty choices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 275RLTW (Post 1058442839)
you wouldn't be asking about 1911s, nor telling people who know more than you about the particular subject that they are wrong.

You are right. You know me, my obvious inexperience and the fact I have no knowledge of the 1911, and you obviously know more than I do. I apologize.

You win, Les Baer is the best 1911 on the market, hands down, most accurate, Baby Jesus said so.

Argument Won, I hope you feel better, and sleep better knowing you bested me on the internet. Congratulations.

In the mean time, leopardprey, if you have been looking at the Dan Wesson's, they are a fine platform to look at, as I have stated here, and in PM's, they would be a fine choice, and you should purchase with confidence.

havok88 17 December 2014 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbuck1031 (Post 1058442835)
From Baer:
All Les Baer pistols come with a guarantee of at least 3" accuracy at 50 yards, and many models are available at extra cost ($295.00) with a guarantee of 1.5" at the same distance.[

And I am happy for shooters at Camp Perry. My point was that there are other firearms out there, even "Tupperware" that can claim the same accuracy that is guaranteed by Baer.

Also, I have asked specifically about the 1.5 inch accuracy today, and the response I got from a Baer rep was "Yes, if you buy one of the guaranteed pistols, it should be able to shoot as advertised, if not, you can send it in, and we will make sure it can shoot as advertised when we send it back". I asked if these results were from bench rest or off hand, and was informed these were mechanical bench rest results.

Not trying to ruffle feathers about Baer, hell, I'm shopping for one now, my point was to illustrate that their "offering" of a 1.5 inch gun at 50 yards for an upsell in price should not be a deciding factor as other platforms can, and DO, offer the same performance.

They are saying if you put the gun in some sort of vice, or stand, it will make those groups. Guaranteeing it will do that in your hands would be ridiculous, they would have all sorts of brand new shooters with too much money buying their guns and wondering why they fired their first 20 rounds in their entire life and completely missed the silhouette. Their guarantee is only to say that if you are experiencing accuracy issues, it's your fault not theirs.

Edit:didn't see the last part about being off a bench when I read this originally. So disregard.

JAFO 17 December 2014 15:04

You do know that Dan Wesson is now made by CZ right? They've had some QC issues as well. Particularly with coatings. I will state that like their CCO model.

dbuck1031 17 December 2014 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAFO (Post 1058442853)
You do know that Dan Wesson is now made by CZ right? They've had some QC issues as well. Particularly with coatings. I will state that like their CCO model.

Yes, they did have issues when they first introduced the Duty Finish, which is a form of ferritic nitrocarburizing. Since then, they have worked the "kinks" out so to speak. Also, after the fire in Nov. 2012, they re-tooled and their QC is much better now. You can determine a "pre-fire" gun, and "post-fire" gun by the serial number. Pre-fire's have a slant (or are in an italic font if you will), post-fire's have no slant to the serial. Also of note, an upside down Y, or lambda denotes a "blemish" model, that CZ will not cover under warranty, so keep that in mind as well when shopping.

But, I am ignorant in the realm of 1911's, so my information should be considered suspect, as it has been pointed out.

leopardprey 17 December 2014 15:28

Well, that is actually one of the things I like about Dan Wesson, is their connection to CZ. I know since 2010 Dan Wesson re-did all their internals - now no MIM parts. From what I have heard, their Black Coating they use on their forged SS frames and Slides is some of the toughest in the industry. I have been impressed when checking them out at the gun stores, better than some of the higher priced 1911s have seen. Have a couple of CZ shotguns (two 20 gauges) as well, and brother has a couple of their rifles- very nice shooters. I think CZ is one of the best buys for the dollar.

leopardprey 17 December 2014 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbuck1031 (Post 1058442857)
Yes, they did have issues when they first introduced the Duty Finish, which is a form of ferritic nitrocarburizing. Since then, they have worked the "kinks" out so to speak. Also, after the fire in Nov. 2012, they re-tooled and their QC is much better now. You can determine a "pre-fire" gun, and "post-fire" gun by the serial number. Pre-fire's have no slant, post-fire's have a slant to the serial (or are in an italic font if you will). Also of note, an upside down Y, or lambda denotes a "blemish" model, that CZ will not cover under warranty, so keep that in mind as well when shopping.

But, I am ignorant in the realm of 1911's, so my information should be considered suspect, as it has been pointed out.


Are not these Blemish models still sold out rather quickly though due to the drastically reduced price?

leopardprey 17 December 2014 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerCharlie (Post 1058442795)
Colt 1911 in Super 38.
This is one of the few pistols I can consistently hit with. Just feels natural

What would you consider the .38 super, in terms of felt recoil to be comparable to? Similar to a 9mm shot out of a 1911, or more like that of a .45? Bit more "snappy"?

A Colt 1911 in .38 super, now that is just pure classic. Good deal.

dbuck1031 17 December 2014 15:48

The DW "Blemish" models can be found, but they are becoming hard to find due to QC getting much better. And yes, they are usually snatched up pretty fast.

My opinion of felt recoil of .38 Super from a 1911 is on par with +P ammo shot from any other platform. "Snappy" 9 is what my grandfather used to call it. He had a Colt in .38 Super that my Uncle inherited, I chose the Colt 1861 Navy (with provenance from a Texas Ranger purchase order from Colt) from his collection, first pistol I ever shot.

SOTB 17 December 2014 15:54

.38 Super is one of those gotta have guns if you really like history and personality with your gun. .38 Supers have an interesting spot in history, regardless of the thoughts of the round today (a round I still would rather not be shot with)....

dbuck1031 17 December 2014 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOTB (Post 1058442872)
.38 Super is one of those gotta have guns if you really like history and personality with your gun. .38 Supers have an interesting spot in history, regardless of the thoughts of the round today (a round I still would rather not be shot with)....

Amen. I have been in the market for one, but every time I start shopping, something else falls in my lap usually at a "If I pass this up I'm an idiot" price. Last one was a Coonan Cadet I was able to walk away smiling like I stole the entire cookie jar (7 bills), I already had the Classic, so this was a great addition.

Until today, I had really been contemplating the DW Guardian in .38 Super, but I have now found myself on a Les Baer hunt.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved