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-   -   K-9 usage correct? (http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=136626)

leopardprey 26 July 2020 19:36

K-9 usage correct?
 
This just happened recently in my city - and things are about to get blown up. We maybe seeing some serious riots in my area over this - has me concerned as my business of course is right in middle of due Tuen area near police station and courthouse. The fuel is being prepped and ready to ignite.

K-9 used to assist in restraining/arresting a non complying black man. Dog goes for the neck, not an arm or leg. Suspect receives near fatal wounds on neck.

No experience working with trained K-9 dogs, are they trained to go for the throat/neck?

Would like your opinions. Within policies or excessive use of force? In my view even though the suspect appears to be POS, and failed to comply with Officers demands - the dog attacking his throat is way overkill. Amazing the suspect did not get killed. After handcuff, Dog is taken off. Dog told. “Good boy “ and first aid applied.

Excessive use of force maybe. But don’t agree with the rhetoric the lawyers and activist are spewing that the officers only did it cause he was black. Not a race issue. They would have done the same if was white trash as well. My communities George Floyd.....sigh.

Bad optics all around.


https://www.wlfi.com/content/news/Th...571902441.html

MilkBoneSkivies 27 July 2020 03:05

I followed the link in your post LP to this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9DQ...ature=youtu.be


After 15 yrs in K9 I find that "handler" (I use that term VERY loosely) has some sub par skillsets, the dog is need of some controlled aggression remedial training.

At approximately the 9:00 mark if you watch the K9 handlers body cam you will see the K9 turn & latch onto the handler. The handler is giving the K9 the "fooey" command. Telling the K9 NO, as in let the fuck go of my arm. That dog is an ass eater as we'd say.

Police patrol K9s are not trained to go for the neck or head, it can happen though. Often if there isn't another area readily accessible. The dude that got bit had other options for the K9 from what I could see (arm chair QB'n from multiple video angles)

I foresee a very substantial settlement for the dude who was bitten, as well as a very definitive change in training requirements for the K9 unit.

Additionally I don't know the dept. SOP on K9 utilization, but for me K9 wasn't needed in what I watched. Just my .02 & I'm just a dog guy watching a youtube video, so YMMV ;)

Zamir 27 July 2020 11:11

I've known Pat (The Chief) for a very long time, he's a good man and respected. I'm confident a legit investigation will be conducted and he will let the cards fall where they may, nothing swept under the rug for him.

From a non-K9 handler perspective, but some knowledge. What I do see, the officers have the arms and hands occupied of the suspect and his legs are still near or on the moped. Being as those are the primary targets for apprehension, maybe the dog was thinking "well dad and his friends are close to where I would normally go...all that's left is the head and neck area.."

Obviously speculation on my part, but while working patrol...I've seen close to 100 bites, all where in arms and legs.

There were also times where we taser'd people in very similar situations prior to deploying a dog. We used #'s and distractions to our advantage with physical force and tasers before cutting the dog loose on a stationary suspect (unarmed).

MilkBoneSkivies 27 July 2020 14:14

Zamir, while I donít know the chief or have had any interaction with that agency; I do know dog work & extensively so.
That (or any K9) doesnít ďthinkĒ oh it looks like daddy has the space occupied I normally bite so Iíll bite X Y or Z location.

That K9 is an asshole on the bite and itís evidenced by the time stamp of the handlers body cam. Iím not trying to get into a pissing contest w/you but the proof is in the video & itís gonna put some sacks in the wringer.

Liability w/K9 is a real concern & the onus falls on the training or lack thereof. Working a patrol dog on the street has to be controlled & that instance witnessed in the video is not.

Zamir 27 July 2020 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilkBoneSkivies (Post 1058874955)
Zamir, while I donít know the chief or have had any interaction with that agency; I do know dog work & extensively so.
That (or any K9) doesnít ďthinkĒ oh it looks like daddy has the space occupied I normally bite so Iíll bite X Y or Z location.

That K9 is an asshole on the bite and itís evidenced by the time stamp of the handlers body cam. Iím not trying to get into a pissing contest w/you but the proof is in the video & itís gonna put some sacks in the wringer.

Liability w/K9 is a real concern & the onus falls on the training or lack thereof. Working a patrol dog on the street has to be controlled & that instance witnessed in the video is not.

No piss'n match here...I don't disagree with what your are saying. I'm more than aware of the training liability, failure to train liability and or negligent type of training. As a former Assistant Chief, I dealt with UOF law suits (and the threat of) and have on this very topic of a dog bite.

KS11 27 July 2020 21:09

The definition of "racism" has now become "anything and everything bad that happens to a black person."

Dude was being investigated/arrested for domestic assault, resisted arrest, and was bitten by a K-9 in the process. The dog clearly had an extremity available (leg), so it's not like it just bit the only thing it could get its teeth into. Bad training, mistake by the dog - I don't know, I'm not a K-9 guy. But it's not like they just sic'd the dog on him because he's black.

I'm sure this will be used to justify even more peaceful protests, during which innocent people's property and livelihoods will be destroyed.

AKAPete 29 July 2020 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopardprey (Post 1058874848)
... - has me concerned as my business of course is right in middle of due Tuen area near police station and courthouse.....

In this day and age if I had a business near the targets I would lay in a supply of heavy plywood cut to size and numbered per window, holes in the plywood and windows pre drilled and heavy duty screws handy.

Might even time the covering of one window to see how much time it would take.

Access to roof? Flat asphalt?

FRex 29 July 2020 20:27

It looks like the handler hits a door popper that releases the dog. Why not just bring the dog out ? Policy that a dog can't be deployed at that point, or did the handler want to use his training?, I.e. he had probably trained many times to hit the door popper while engaged with a "bad guy." I think the dog bit whatever he could and got the neck; however, the handler should have got him off of the bite immediately seeing it was the neck. As mentioned the dog redirects onto the handler after the out= a dog not clear in the head.


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