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Psyop Shaw 6 May 2019 20:16

Schools
 
Is it difficult for non-SF Qualified soldiers assigned to a Battalion or a GSB to get schools? e.g. SFAUC, MFF, professional development etc...

Astronomy 6 May 2019 21:06

No, it's not difficult for non-SF Qualified Soldiers to get schools. Schools that support that Soldier's MOS, career path, or assigned duty position.

But you ain't generally getting access to any SF Qualified specialty courses. Why? Because...

1. Many of those schools require you to hold an 18 MOS in order to attend. Not a waiverable prerequisite.

2. Even if they don't require the 18-Series MOS, you're in competition with every GB in the battalion for the same very limited number of such school slots. Those with operational need get first crack at available slots.

3. SF specialty skill school slots are always in short supply. Every Group in competition with every other Group for annual allocations. Every Battalion fighting for slots, every Company fighting for slots, and so on down the line. Scarce school slots get filled quickly and there's always a waiting list down at ODA level.

4. Among Officer ranks, competition is even more bitter for desirable "cool guy" school slots. With 18A ODA commanders juggling limited command time, long deployments, and a very short career calendar opportunity for attending some exotic SF school. You've got 4 battalions worth of SF Captains trying to attend the same schools you want. Beyond O-3, SF Majors don't get SF specialty skills schools... just immense loads of work and increased responsibility. But most Group/Battalion Commanders take good care of their Support Officers. To include that same kind of tightly calendar-scripted shot at certain nice-to-have schools.

If your job requires a specialty training course... you'll be at the top of the list for future attendance. If not, you're standing in line behind those actually required to have that training. The reverse is true as well. GBs don't get casually sent to scarce Support MOS schools.

School slots are centrally managed at the Group/Battalion HQs levels. The CSMs, S3 SGMs, and Company SGMs/1SGs carefully wheel and deal allocated unit school slots. They manage OMLs (Order of Merit List) down at Company level to fill slots allocated or traded for between sister units. In a Support MOS role, your allocated annual school slots come from the GSB or Support Company you're assigned to. Your unit's NCOIC (1SG or SGM) & Schools NCO are your POCs for course availability. For both Officers & EMs. Naturally, Officers require a permission slip from their Boss. Officers can also (occasionally) get their Branch Manager to wrangle a specific career enhancing course... outside of a unit's allocations.

Some things (like Ranger School) may be open to volunteers from a variety of MOS assignments and ranks. Other things (like MFF, SFAUC, or SFS) won't. At the operational level of assignment, Support MOS troops (all ranks) attend an abbreviated form of SFAUC at their assigned unit (Special Forces Basic Combat Course - Support). If you are a hard charging top performer/leader within your unit, section, duty position, staff assignment ... the opportunity for schools will come your way. Especially mandatory professional development courses. Just like everywhere else in the Army.

If you want SF specialty courses in your future... you start by volunteering for and completing SFAS/SFQC. That's the price of admission. It's just the way of things.

Hope that helps to answer your question.

Psyop Shaw 6 May 2019 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astronomy (Post 1058793718)
No, it's not difficult for non-SF Qualified Soldiers to get schools....

If you want SF specialty courses in your future... you start by volunteering for and completing SFAS/SFQC. That's the price of admission. It's just the way of things.

Thank you for the quick response and insight @Astronomy.

I'm not eligible to drop my packet, but SFAS/SFQC is the goal. Until then I may be taking a support position and continue preparing myself.

TennesseeDave 11 May 2019 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyop Shaw (Post 1058793703)
Is it difficult for non-SF Qualified soldiers assigned to a Battalion or a GSB to get schools? e.g. SFAUC, MFF, professional development etc...

As a support guy, I had the privilege of attending Ranger School and SFAUCC. Depending on what MOS you're looking at, SERE may also be an option. My support company also sent a lot of people to jumpmaster.

Hot Mess 11 May 2019 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyop Shaw (Post 1058793703)
Is it difficult for non-SF Qualified soldiers assigned to a Battalion or a GSB to get schools? e.g. SFAUC, MFF, professional development etc...

SFAUCC is easy, it’s not an ATARS school. MFF on the other hand... you can wish in one hand and shit in the other... PD schools should be easy to get though.

The Fat Guy 12 May 2019 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyop Shaw (Post 1058793703)
Is it difficult for non-SF Qualified soldiers assigned to a Battalion or a GSB to get schools? e.g. SFAUC, MFF, professional development etc...

I recommend that you concentrate on focusing on your new leadership role. That's why you got a slot to Ranger School and what the Army wants and needs you to do.

If and when you do go through selection, know which special skill you want when you get to an operational detachment. You will attain and use that skill for about 18 to 36 months. Any school slot you seek now is taking that slot from an NCO that does this shit for a living.

Freediving Spearo 22 May 2019 11:06

Hm...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyop Shaw (Post 1058793703)
Is it difficult for non-SF Qualified soldiers assigned to a Battalion or a GSB to get schools? e.g. SFAUC, MFF, professional development etc...

As a recently separated PSYOP instructor as SWCS for all SOF branches, I can tell you there are certain courses you’re probably interested in that you can and absolutely will get access to. Frankly this is the wrong place to ask these questions. You should go to your NCOIC/OIC and try out for some of the “cool guy” missions we have in PSYOP. Then, your S3 Schools NCO will get you hooked up with whatever you need. Coming to the SF forum on SOCNET isn’t going to give you concise answers pertaining to training/missions available for your specific TSOC.

Here’s the rub - you’ve gotta have a need to go, and a reason to do so. If you’re in the proper BN or SMU, you can basically go to any school you want with a few exceptions. Hell, you can even go to OTC and ASOT just to name a few. You won’t however, get access to them if you aren’t a skilled enough practitioner of PSYOP to get those special missions that require some of the “cool guy” schools you’re referencing. Those missions go to the most talented practitioners of our MOS.

I have a feeling you might belong in the bucket of “I’m in PSYOP but I wanna go to SF.” You can do that, but having been on some truly amazing mission sets, I highly encourage you to see how incredibly awesome our skill set is and experience PSYOP for what it can be before you abandon our branch. We’re doing some amazing training at SWCS for some very cool missions, side by side our brothers with green on their heads on nearly every Theater you can think of.

So that’s a long way to say yes, you can get the schools you’re interested in. The rub; you’ve gotta be on a “cool” mission to get the “cool” training. Be the best PSYOPer you can be and you will get all the training and missions you’d ever want, and then some.
Learn the components of PSYOP in UW and all phases then go from there. You’ll find what you’re seeking; and you won’t need to go to another branch to do it.

Dark Helmet 22 May 2019 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freediving Spearo (Post 1058796039)
Frankly this is the wrong place to ask these questions.

Methinks that after you have been around here a while you might not be so quick to say that.

Freediving Spearo 22 May 2019 11:21

I’ve been browsing this forum since the early 2000’s and never registered or decided to post. Just take a look at the activity in the PSYOP/CA sub. I know for a fact the amount of active *and* senior 37Fs that post is egregiously low, therefore I came to give feedback. The bottom line is that the schools available to him as a 37; I personally was a cross-functional instructor (18/37/38) at SWCS for my last three years up until I got out not too long ago.

If he went to his seniors at whatever BN he’s in they would’ve told him the list of special missions he could go on or that he could attempt to try out for another mission. Therefore, he would’ve had every answer to every question he posited in his OP.

Mingo Kane 22 May 2019 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freediving Spearo (Post 1058796046)
I’ve been browsing this forum since the early 2000’s and never registered or decided to post. Just take a look at the activity in the PSYOP/CA sub. I know for a fact the amount of active *and* senior 37Fs that post is egregiously low, therefore I came to give feedback. The bottom line is that the schools available to him as a 37; I personally was a cross-functional instructor (18/37/38) at SWCS for my last three years up until I got out not too long ago.

If he went to his seniors at whatever BN he’s in they would’ve told him the list of special missions he could go on or that he could attempt to try out for another mission. Therefore, he would’ve had every answer to every question he posited in his OP.

Which units did you serve in...your introduction was a bit brief. :smile:

Freediving Spearo 22 May 2019 11:56

-75th FiB
-82nd FiB
-Task Force ###
-8th PSYOP BN
-SOCCENT J35
-5th & 6th BNs SWCS
Sill, Bragg, Bragg, and more Bragg. It was however much more of an enjoyable experience once I was no longer in the 82nd 😝

Mingo Kane 22 May 2019 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freediving Spearo (Post 1058796057)
-75th FiB
-82nd FiB
-Task Force ###
-8th PSYOP BN
-SOCCENT J35
-5th & 6th BNs SWCS
Sill, Bragg, Bragg, and more Bragg. It was however much more of an enjoyable experience once I was no longer in the 82nd 😝

Welcome Brother...:biggrin:

Psyop Shaw 22 May 2019 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freediving Spearo (Post 1058796039)
"Cool guy" schools your referencing... I have a feeling you might belong in the bucket of “I’m in PSYOP but I wanna go to SF.”

The schools I referenced were not for the "cool guy factor" aside from MFF and that's because I like jumping out of airplanes. SFAUC is amazing training from what I heard while working with a ODA that had recently completed the course last summer. Professional development is... well professional development.

I am no longer in the PSYOP regiment. I now fall under the Infantry branch. I was asking about training opportunities because I was offered a job in group. Obviously not on a ODA because I am not SF Q'd, but I will be submitting my packet as soon as I hit my YG timeline for submission.

Freediving Spearo 22 May 2019 14:16

“I am no longer in the PSYOP regiment”; how’d that happen? You are inducted into the regiment immediately upon graduation of POQC. We do not release officers from this branch as we are a critical skill career field. Did you attend POAS? How did you wind up leaving CMF 37?

Also, there are many PSYOP soldiers that are on ODAs, especially and almost exclusively during deployments. They are not on their MTOE, however they are TACON/OPCON to them through orders from USASFC/USASOC.

Freediving Spearo 22 May 2019 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mingo Kane (Post 1058796071)
Welcome Brother...:biggrin:

Thank you!

Psyop Shaw 22 May 2019 15:04

I am fully aware brother.

I transitioned from the E to the O side.

Dark Helmet 22 May 2019 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freediving Spearo (Post 1058796046)
I’ve been browsing this forum since the early 2000’s and never registered or decided to post.

Had that been in your intro, I likely would not have commented as I did....or at all. Your intro was thin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freediving Spearo (Post 1058796046)
I know for a fact the amount of active *and* senior 37Fs that post is egregiously low, therefore I came to give feedback.

Fair enough.

Welcome.

Maybe you can serve as a SME for this CMF 37 stuff that pops up and increase the site's content in that area.

Hot Mess 23 May 2019 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyop Shaw (Post 1058796083)
The schools I referenced were not for the "cool guy factor" aside from MFF and that's because I like jumping out of airplanes. SFAUC is amazing training from what I heard while working with a ODA that had recently completed the course last summer. Professional development is... well professional development.

If you want to jump just go pay to do it yourself. Jumping MMF sounds cool until you’re doing a night jump under NODS, pull, clear your airspace, then promptly lose your team, and end up on the other side of the airfield walking through god knows what because the ground party isn’t monitoring comms. Ask me how I know.

I’ve been to some “fun” schools but I probably got the most tidbits out of PD. My current job is all about leadership and touchy feely stuff, and I probably get more out of that then spending four days driving BMW M cars around a track.

Psyop Shaw 23 May 2019 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Mess (Post 1058796189)
Jumping MMF sounds cool until you’re doing a night jump under NODS, pull, clear your airspace, then promptly lose your team, and end up on the other side of the airfield walking through god knows what because the ground party isn’t monitoring comms. Ask me how I know.

How do you know? :biggrin:

Haha, thanks for the insight as always Hot Mess.

1RiserSlip 24 May 2019 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Mess (Post 1058796189)
If you want to jump just go pay to do it yourself. Jumping MMF sounds cool until you’re doing a night jump under NODS, pull, clear your airspace, then promptly lose your team, and end up on the other side of the airfield walking through god knows what because the ground party isn’t monitoring comms. Ask me how I know.


Or, you go on the MFF JM's signal. Group with 5 other jumpers. Realize that you can't see the JM or nothing on the ground that resembles a light much less a wind vee.

You start thinking "Did the JM really point or tuck his arms and shake his head?

The 6 man group lands in a perimeter of Bradley's on an ARTEP who thinks your Spetsnaz.

Bad spots.


I hope you get all the good cool schools you want there Shaw. Leadership, Mission first. All those things will come if you apply yourself as you have so far.


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