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Old 14 August 2017, 12:57
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Icon5 Enriched Oxygen literature repository

Been diving EANx for the past few dives and I'm hooked. I have a million technical questions beyond the knowledge component that got me my certification and I've been searching for literature at the usual spots (NOAA, Navy), but I haven't found a comprehensive repository that I can dive into (pun not intended).

1. Does such an animal exist?
2. High on my list is finding out about the 'energy surge' that accompanies diving on EANx; no diver fatigue and it charges me up for a day or two after the dives. Can someone recommend a dive physiology manual that covers this?
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Old 31 August 2017, 13:39
Gwyn Gwyn is offline
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I find the benefits of nitrox are limited to the 40 to 70 foot zone. That seems to be where it makes the biggest difference in bottom times. I also find that if I'm doing three or more dives a day, um exhausted no matter what mix I'm using. I'd be interested to hear what you come up with. I've read that the energy difference hasn't actually been quantified.
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Old 1 September 2017, 10:25
Azatty Azatty is offline
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I don't know how I missed this thread.

Rubicon Foundation has the most comprehensive research library I've come across. 221 articles on Nitrox alone.

One theory regarding the phenomenon you describe is that the higher O2 content ameliorates symptoms of subclinical decompression sickness, which includes fatigue, and which probably exists after every dive if bubble theory is correct.

NASA has very good research on DCS. We don't think about going from 1 ATA to zero ATA, but that's what they study. Air Force has also done some studies relating to rapid decompression at altitude, iirc. Michael Powell (a.k.a Dr. Deco on Scubaboard) worked for NASA and is one of the top SMEs, so you might want to check for his articles.
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Old 10 September 2017, 16:04
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Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
I don't know how I missed this thread.

Rubicon Foundation has the most comprehensive research library I've come across. 221 articles on Nitrox alone.

One theory regarding the phenomenon you describe is that the higher O2 content ameliorates symptoms of subclinical decompression sickness, which includes fatigue, and which probably exists after every dive if bubble theory is correct.

NASA has very good research on DCS. We don't think about going from 1 ATA to zero ATA, but that's what they study. Air Force has also done some studies relating to rapid decompression at altitude, iirc. Michael Powell (a.k.a Dr. Deco on Scubaboard) worked for NASA and is one of the top SMEs, so you might want to check for his articles.
Thanks, counselor. Makes for good hurricane reading.
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Old 27 September 2017, 11:17
kat68 kat68 is offline
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While I don't have a good answer for your questions you may find this helpful if you haven't seen it yet.

https://www.deeperblue.com/nitrox-ean-diving/
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Old 6 October 2017, 17:34
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While I don't have a good answer for your questions you may find this helpful if you haven't seen it yet.

https://www.deeperblue.com/nitrox-ean-diving/
Thank you, I registered a couple of days ago. Also, I did a dive on a 28% mix last weekend to the Tenneco Towers wreck/artificial reef about a mile east of Hallandale Beach. Smooth as butter and not a trace of narcosis at 112'. There are two parts to the wreck, one to the sand at 112 and the other to about 190'+. The tech guys go to the latter and hopefully I'll be able to join them in about a year.
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Old 6 October 2017, 20:10
Azatty Azatty is offline
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...I did a dive on a 28% mix last weekend...The tech guys go to the latter and hopefully I'll be able to join them in about a year.
You've truly drunk the Kool-Aid. 28%? You're seriously paying for 28%?

In about a year I'll be happy to sell you my Pressed Steel LP104 doubles. Never had a cave fill in them, either. You'll need to take out a second mortgage to afford the Trimix. $200+ to fill a set of doubles with a hypoxic mix you'd use at that depth, and that price doesn't count a travel mix or your deco bottle to get you down and back up. I've told a number of people that the first requirement for tech diving is to have more money than sense.
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Old 7 October 2017, 09:34
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You've truly drunk the Kool-Aid. 28%? You're seriously paying for 28%?

In about a year I'll be happy to sell you my Pressed Steel LP104 doubles. Never had a cave fill in them, either. You'll need to take out a second mortgage to afford the Trimix. $200+ to fill a set of doubles with a hypoxic mix you'd use at that depth, and that price doesn't count a travel mix or your deco bottle to get you down and back up. I've told a number of people that the first requirement for tech diving is to have more money than sense.
So it's like aviation and firearms, got it.

Well, it's not like I haven't been accused of that before.
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Old 10 October 2017, 09:00
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I used to work for Duke hyperbarics/dive medicine and DAN; I can reach out.
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Old 11 October 2017, 14:05
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Rubicon and the DAN sites are good, as is google scholar.

I dive nitrox every week in local caves and think any energy boost you'd get from breathing high o2 would be gone as soon as you started swimming and hiking gear around.

I dive in a very high flow cave every week, usually with scooter and several stages. Dives are around 2 hours with about 30 min of that deco on 100% o2 for reference.

Regardless of how you feel, you shouldn't exercise after diving.
Now that you dive nitrox, be sure and get an o2 tester and test every single cylinder you dive. I also test for CO.
It's not uncommon for folks partial pressure mixing to accidentally fill a tank with a hot mix, they will for example start with 100% and then top with air...you can see how not paying attention at the wrong time could be a bad scene. Always test.

I'm big on marking cylinders with mod and not switching mixes, so my 100%, 50% and 32% stages have stickers and always have only that mix in them. I also mark 100 and 50% on the bottom.
My back gas is always tested with a confirmation sticker, the gue mix stickers are pretty good.

Always remember, you violate mod and convulse and it's curtains. You cannot screw up breathing from the right source. Know exactly what you are breathing, always confirm.

Have fun and keep learning and diving.
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Old 11 October 2017, 14:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavid View Post
Rubicon and the DAN sites are good, as is google scholar.

I dive nitrox every week in local caves and think any energy boost you'd get from breathing high o2 would be gone as soon as you started swimming and hiking gear around.

I dive in a very high flow cave every week, usually with scooter and several stages. Dives are around 2 hours with about 30 min of that deco on 100% o2 for reference.

Regardless of how you feel, you shouldn't exercise after diving.
Now that you dive nitrox, be sure and get an o2 tester and test every single cylinder you dive. I also test for CO.
It's not uncommon for folks partial pressure mixing to accidentally fill a tank with a hot mix, they will for example start with 100% and then top with air...you can see how not paying attention at the wrong time could be a bad scene. Always test.

I'm big on marking cylinders with mod and not switching mixes, so my 100%, 50% and 32% stages have stickers and always have only that mix in them. I also mark 100 and 50% on the bottom.
My back gas is always tested with a confirmation sticker, the gue mix stickers are pretty good.

Always remember, you violate mod and convulse and it's curtains. You cannot screw up breathing from the right source. Know exactly what you are breathing, always confirm.

Have fun and keep learning and diving.
If it hasn't been mentioned lately, this site is awesome.
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Old 12 October 2017, 08:39
Devildoc Devildoc is offline
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Regardless of how you feel, you shouldn't exercise after diving....
This is generally the rule, but not a lot of hard evidence to back up what "exercise" is, and how much to limit.

When I was at hyperbarics we did some research with DOD/Navy to figure this out, and the general consensus was to not exercise more than what one's general activity threshold is; one of the reasons combat divers train so hard and drive that threshold so high. Unfortunately, as we all know, the general exercise threshold for the general public who do recreational diving is not stellar.
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Old 12 October 2017, 20:32
Azatty Azatty is offline
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^^No doubt. In my technical classes the instructor was smart enough to note that the USN tables we dove were developed by using very fit individuals, so it wasn't a good idea to push it.

I seem to recall reading that some amount of light exercise could be beneficial in flushing out N2, but more than "light" caused nucleation. I've never wanted to be the guinea pig to test that threshold, so I typically lay around between and after dives.

Devildoc, how were you determining the activity threshold?
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Old 18 October 2017, 16:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavid View Post
Rubicon and the DAN sites are good, as is google scholar.

I dive nitrox every week in local caves and think any energy boost you'd get from breathing high o2 would be gone as soon as you started swimming and hiking gear around.

I dive in a very high flow cave every week, usually with scooter and several stages. Dives are around 2 hours with about 30 min of that deco on 100% o2 for reference.

Regardless of how you feel, you shouldn't exercise after diving.
Now that you dive nitrox, be sure and get an o2 tester and test every single cylinder you dive. I also test for CO.
It's not uncommon for folks partial pressure mixing to accidentally fill a tank with a hot mix, they will for example start with 100% and then top with air...you can see how not paying attention at the wrong time could be a bad scene. Always test.

I'm big on marking cylinders with mod and not switching mixes, so my 100%, 50% and 32% stages have stickers and always have only that mix in them. I also mark 100 and 50% on the bottom.
My back gas is always tested with a confirmation sticker, the gue mix stickers are pretty good.

Always remember, you violate mod and convulse and it's curtains. You cannot screw up breathing from the right source. Know exactly what you are breathing, always confirm.

Have fun and keep learning and diving.
Signed up for DAN services after I finished Nitrox, they have an awesome repository. Starting Rescue Diver on Saturday and pretty much spending as much time as possible in the EFR and PADI manuals. Pool work on Saturday is going to be long followed by two dives on Sunday.

This thread is awesome.
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Old 18 October 2017, 16:10
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I've also gained a real appreciation for all the DoD divers, they're carrying their gas plus a full kit and have to be ready to execute a mission after exiting the water. Considering a yoked, steel double can weigh 51lbs on its own, it's no wonder all the divers are manic about PT.
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Old 23 October 2017, 10:10
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Sunday's dives were cancelled due to high seas (5'), we try again on Saturday.
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Old 24 October 2017, 23:25
Azatty Azatty is offline
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Originally Posted by Justaclerk View Post
Signed up for DAN services after I finished Nitrox, they have an awesome repository. Starting Rescue Diver on Saturday and pretty much spending as much time as possible in the EFR and PADI manuals.
There's a metric ton that isn't in the PADI manuals, and candidly I think their materials leave something to be desired. And I say that as a PADI instructor. Don't be afraid to read other materials, and if you really want to get your ass kicked and ego bruised on basic skills, find your way up to mdavid's neighborhood and sign up for a DIR Fundamentals class from GUE. You will probably fail it the first time. I'm just saying that matter-of-factly, not being a dick.
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Old 25 October 2017, 08:27
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Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
There's a metric ton that isn't in the PADI manuals, and candidly I think their materials leave something to be desired. And I say that as a PADI instructor. Don't be afraid to read other materials, and if you really want to get your ass kicked and ego bruised on basic skills, find your way up to mdavid's neighborhood and sign up for a DIR Fundamentals class from GUE. You will probably fail it the first time. I'm just saying that matter-of-factly, not being a dick.
Sadly, I agree. After I read through the section on lung over expansion injuries (air embolism, mediastinal and subcutaneous emphysema and pneumothorax), I was left with more questions than answers particularly since I used to teach Aviation Physiology. My instructor explained that I won't be exposed to more rigorous theory until the Divemaster course and even then the material has been watered down somewhat from previous years. That puts the onus (x-thread points?) on me to seek out more comprehensive literature as I head down this road.

I'm getting the vibe that you want me to take the GUE path.
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