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  #1  
Old 29 December 2017, 14:30
Joe30045 Joe30045 is offline
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2 week Heavy Weapons Course

Specifically, "SPECIAL FORCES HEAVY WEAPONS COURSE, 2 WEEKS, 2010" is how it is listed in the continuation section of Block 14 of a DD 214 I have received for a potential shift supervisor. Real deal or never happened?
Some other anomalies on the 214:
Block 11:
11B48 2S B4 Infantryman - 19 YRS 10 MOS
91X4O Maintenance Superviso - 19 YRS 10 MOS

Block 13:
Pathfinder Badge
Parachutist Badge
Air Assault Badge

No associated course dates in Block 14: Military Education

Date Entered AD was 1994. Block 14 has "Emergency Medical Technician - Ambulance Course, 15 Weeks, 1993" have they ever listed courses that occur prior to entering active duty?

If you really want to dig in to it, I can list some additional claims from his resume that are not in the 214...
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Old 29 December 2017, 14:51
Hostile0311 Hostile0311 is online now
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Does he have his Mk19 weapons qual paper target score in hand?
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Old 29 December 2017, 16:32
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Am I missing something or is this random as shit?

I wish heavy weapons was 2 weeks...

So you’re a former 18E/F and you can’t read a DD214? Bro!
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Old 29 December 2017, 17:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
Am I missing something or is this random as shit?

I wish heavy weapons was 2 weeks...

So youíre a former 18E/F and you canít read a DD214? Bro!
LOL....Sorry, yes random in that we have about five people applying for a position with sketchy resumes that reference Spec Ops, Special Forces, or SEALs.The one above is the only one that included a 214, and I most certainly know how to read it, I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Am I dealing with an inflater, an outright liar, or someone that has gone to the trouble of falsifying a 214?
One resume claiming to have been a "Tactical Operator" at Ft Bragg as an MP SWAT team member. Another claiming extensive experience with an 860 gauge. These guys obviously are not taking advantage of any of the resume writing classes. Mine is far from perfect, but dang!
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Old 29 December 2017, 17:59
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Sounds like a forged 214.
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  #6  
Old 29 December 2017, 18:00
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Lies. All lies.
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Old 29 December 2017, 18:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe30045 View Post
One resume claiming to have been a "Tactical Operator" at Ft Bragg as an MP SWAT team member. Another claiming extensive experience with an 860 gauge.
You should ask him if he knows Jack Reacher.
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Old 29 December 2017, 19:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe30045 View Post
LOL....Sorry, yes random in that we have about five people applying for a position with sketchy resumes that reference Spec Ops, Special Forces, or SEALs.The one above is the only one that included a 214, and I most certainly know how to read it, I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Am I dealing with an inflater, an outright liar, or someone that has gone to the trouble of falsifying a 214?
One resume claiming to have been a "Tactical Operator" at Ft Bragg as an MP SWAT team member. Another claiming extensive experience with an 860 gauge. These guys obviously are not taking advantage of any of the resume writing classes. Mine is far from perfect, but dang!
I finished the 18B course in 2009 and it sure as shit was NOT two weeks long. As has been confirmed, you got yourself a poser.
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Old 29 December 2017, 19:10
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^18Bs......do you really need more than two weeks to learn how to disassemble and assemble an Ak 47 and deploy a 60mm mortar?
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  #10  
Old 29 December 2017, 20:05
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
^18Bs...... Ak 47 and deploy a 60mm mortar?
AK47 light weapon - first month

60Mmm mortor heavy weapon - second month

:)
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  #11  
Old 29 December 2017, 20:09
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
^18Bs......do you really need more than two weeks to learn how to disassemble and assemble an Ak 47 and deploy a 60mm mortar?
Well, just the AK takes like a month. And the 60? Thatís like 3 months But if you break it itís another 2 months. Iím pretty much an 18D.
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  #12  
Old 29 December 2017, 22:07
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Hey OP... lets look at just the items you listed:

Quote:
"SPECIAL FORCES HEAVY WEAPONS COURSE, 2 WEEKS, 2010" is how it is listed in the continuation section of Block 14 of a DD 214...
No way the guy completed a USAJFKSWCS MOS 18B Course (Special Forces Weapons NCO)at Ft Bragg. He's not in the required MOS and the course is much longer. However...

Plenty of conventional infantry units have received tailored training from SF units over the years. Usually an ODA (or even an SF Company) gets tasked to provide some sort of Train-the-Trainer gig for conventional Battalions or Brigades. Kinda like AWG has done for many units in the past.

I ran a Small Arms Master Gunner Course for an Army Mech Bde. Length: ~3 weeks. SF ODA teaching mostly non-combat arms NCOs (brigade support troops) a very abbreviated small arms/range operations course. One that covered their organic small arms: pistols to rifles to GLs to machine guns. SF developed 18B-style hands on training delivered by SF personnel for which all participants received a Diploma, BDE Roster Certificate of Training, and TDY Orders. So... it was legitimate "SF" training, tasked by their Brigade and our Theater SOC. They got training credit and paperwork to add to their personnel files, ERBs, future DD214s. Perhaps this guy benefited from something like that... or maybe an SF run Tactical Convoy Crew Served Weapons Train-Up before his unit deployed or even while downrange. Completely plausible. Didn't attend a formal Special Forces TRADOC School, but attended some sort of unit course where he was formally trained by SF personnel. He should be able to explain that training almost exactly the way I just described.

Quote:
Some other anomalies on the 214:
Block 11:
11B48 2S B4 Infantryman - 19 YRS 10 MOS
"11B4"? E7 Infantry MOS. Plausible/appropriate for time served.
"8"? Army Instructor SQI. Plausible/appropriate for his rank.
"2S"? Battle Staff Operations ASI. Plausible/appropriate for E7.
"B4"? Sniper ASI. Plausible/appropriate for his Infantry MOS.
"Infantryman - 19 YRS 10 MOS"? Actual time in awarded MOS. See Block #12 for total time in service.

I'm assuming this guy retired just after completing 20+ years of service which would be reflected by his 19yrs/10months as an MOS awarded 11B, plus his initial entry training (Basic), plus any other time served (e.g. Reserve or Guard). He should have an Honorable Discharge for either Longevity or Medical Retirement reflected down in the 20ish Blocks of that same DD214.

Quote:
91X4O Maintenance Supervisor - 19 YRS 10 MOS
This one makes no sense unless it was a secondary MOS held...

Possibly a clerical fuck up by his Discharging Personnel Office? A cut and paste computer error. You'd need to ask him about that MOS being reflected.

It's a Supervisory Maintenance MOS, not one you just casually acquire without extensive background in previous MOS 91 Series jobs or from attending some kind of MOS producing course. Do Mech/Motorized Infantry have some sort of schooling program for having Infantry NCOs attend that kind of MOS training? In order to run unit maintenance or motor stables? I'm outta my depth on this one...

Quote:
Block 13:
Pathfinder Badge
Parachutist Badge
Air Assault Badge
Nothing remarkable here for a 20-year Infantry NCO. Quite plausible.

Quote:
No associated course dates in Block 14: Military Education
Nothing? RED FLAG if you're talking about those 3 scare badge courses. Does he have appropriate NCO career educational courses listed? He should. After 20 years, he should have quite a few things listed.

Quote:
Date Entered AD was 1994. Block 14 has "Emergency Medical Technician - Ambulance Course, 15 Weeks, 1993" have they ever listed courses that occur prior to entering active duty?
You can continue to work on high school completion or college education during Delayed Entry Status (for up to a year before shipping to Active Duty & Basic Training). But I'm not sure if a civilian EMT course counts unless it were creditable college semester hours from something like a local community college. It's possible. Maybe. I have a civilian EMT Course listed that I took while I was already serving on AD. The Army sent me to it. It's on my DD-214.

It's hard to really judge these things without looking at the whole document. And some post G-1 Retirement offices really do let crap DD-214s slip out the door when a guy retires. And sometimes, a character shows up to retire with an ERB full of undocumented holes... and no personally owned copies of orders or awards to fill them in. In other words... GIGO. It sometimes happens.

On the other hand, it's up to a retiring Soldier to demonstrate enough attention to detail to accurately proof the final copy of his DD-214 before signing and accepting it. Some guys don't really give a shit, finger drill the exercise, and retire with a half-assed document (incomplete or incorrect). Or fail to keep a personal backup record of their military career (orders, awards, promotions, schools, combat deployments, etc.) Which isn't a great reflection upon their post-retirement employment potential.

The meat of the bullets you posted pass the sniff test for a senior E7 Infantry NCO. The MOS 91X is a huge question mark. So are the lack of course dates/weeks for those 3 schools.

I can see why you're concerned. I'm on the fence about this one. Could be fabricated. Could just as likely be a poorly constructed and proofed retirement document generated at the time of his discharge.

The good news is that, even if this guy doesn't work out, you'll easily find other qualified candidates. Judging by internet posts, at least a million or so former Navy SEALs are looking for jobs.
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Last edited by Astronomy; 29 December 2017 at 22:30.
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  #13  
Old 29 December 2017, 23:32
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I'm not on the fence about the two week "Heavy Weapons" course in 2010.

In order to make it to a DD214 it would need to be listed on his ERB. ERB only lists ATRRS courses (such as the Small Arms Master Gunner Course). Hip-pocket training he received from SF folks is not be an ATRRS course. I'm not a grad of the 18B course, so I don't know if there still is a stand-alone portion of the course for Heavy Weapons, but the ATRRS course entry would be for the SFQC, not a two-week part of the 18B POI.

So, hint for any posers out there...you need to forge a SFQC Graduation Certificate with the SWC CG's signature on it, then, you can list a two-week heavy weapons course on your resume...but it still don't go on your DD214. Get the Grad Cert done right, and make sure a copy is on file at Bryant Hall. Or, just become an actual 18B, which is harder than being a poser, but still the right way to go.
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Last edited by gavin; 29 December 2017 at 23:38.
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  #14  
Old 30 December 2017, 01:04
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I retired in 2012 after just a few weeks shy 35 years of service. All of it in Army SOF. Rangers & SF. Much of that time spent as an 18B. My DD214 reflects several non-ATRRS courses. More than several. Hell, some of them predate the very existence of ATRRS.

I learned along the way that there are some pretty outlandish exceptions to damn near anything you believe true about the Army.

The ERB software (when it first hit the streets) didn't even include many perfectly common Army SF schools and courses. WTF?, Over. An imperfect electronic document designed by idiots for lowest common denominator use. Which is why G-1 Retirement Offices manually input all the other stuff you have documentation/orders for.

Like I mentioned, this guy may be a poser. But the bullets mentioned by the OP don't scream the usual line of poser BS. They're mostly appropriate for someone who slogged along for a full infantry NCO career. Not spectacularly inflated and not beyond the realm of possibility. Which are usually the first two red lines that posers cross.

All except for that 91X business. For that, I got nuthin' besides my previous speculation...
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Old 30 December 2017, 01:10
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To the best of my knowledge you canít be two MOSs at one time. So to be MOSs for the same exact amount of time is..specious at best.
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Old 30 December 2017, 01:42
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Re-91X

When I made SSG, I was 'issued' a secondary MOS of 31G due to my ASVAB scores.

That was 'normal' back then; I was further issued 31S then 31X as I was promoted through the ranks although I never worked in the MOS.

I even received college credit on ACES for the MOS.

Maybe this is more of the same thing...








But probably not- he's at least an inflator or aggrandizer of momentous stature...like that big word??
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  #17  
Old 30 December 2017, 07:38
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Originally Posted by RGR.Montcalm View Post
....That was 'normal' back then; I was further issued 31S then 31X as I was promoted through the ranks although I never worked in the MOS......
Damn, now you're making me go back and look at my 7, 8 and 9 orders. CRS if they had my secondary MOS on there.
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Old 30 December 2017, 07:58
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I went through the "Q-course" in '82-'83 graduating as an 11B. The Light Weapons portion in Jan-Feb '83. The 11C had their own course. We had zero strap-hangers who did not graduate (the then) Phase I.

When we became 18 series was when the 11B and 11C courses were combined. I know that it wasn't shortened.

I later attended a Advanced Mortarmans course in '83 which was taught by a retired SF NCO (fantastic course at that!).

This (214) one stinks.
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Old 30 December 2017, 08:27
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Back in the 80s they had a Two week Light and Heavy Course that was taught to NG/Reserve Soliders to get "S" qualified. The whole course six phases. Phase 1A was a bunch of Sub Courses, then you attended a Phase 1B two week course at Bragg (land nav, PT ect..) Phase 2A was more sub courses pertinet to your MOS, Phase 2B was hands on, live fire (for 11B/C and 12Bs). Phase 3A was more sub courses to lead up to a 2 week (phase 3B) Field Exercise. At the end of it you were awarded the "S" identifier. Later converted to an 18 series MOS. I think this all ended in the early 90s.
Still not the time period the OP stated the DD214 that is in question was for.
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Old 30 December 2017, 08:53
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///When we became 18 series was when the 11B and 11C courses were combined. I know that it wasn't shortened....
It used to be just the "Weapons Course" and was divided into Light Weapons and Heavy Weapons. You say there was two weapons courses, one for 11B and one for 11C in 82/83? I wasn't paying much attention to the course during that time period but that's the first I've heard of two courses.

I went through just the weapons course in 1978ish to pick up a secondary SF MOS and it had both light and heavy sections.

Trends in SF can be very specific in time and location - just like non SF people wearing the GB. You had the Candy Stripe period (flash qualified) and the Preggo Cook period (group hug).
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