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  #21  
Old 14 May 2019, 19:55
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
A much more terrible idea would have been not returning fire.
I got better about wearing Peltors full time after that.
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

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  #22  
Old 14 May 2019, 20:21
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
I got better about wearing Peltors full time after that.
Eyes, ears, gloves...every time you leave the perimeter, all the time.
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  #23  
Old 14 May 2019, 20:34
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Originally Posted by Whitebean54 View Post
Fixed it for you

On a serious note, he did connect with the guy several times. IIRC, Suspect got out and either the truck was in neutral/reverse and was trying to use it as cover. The calvary showed up and someone popped him with a string of full auto(yeah yeah yeah I know) well he was out of the vehicle.

It’s been some time since I’ve seen the video but he was Trooper if the Year at some point since.
watching that Trooper's (game warden maybe?) dash cam vid, he was definitely suppressing the headache bar and rear of the cab all tightly around the driver while they were still rolling. some of the round probably got through the rear window.
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  #24  
Old 14 May 2019, 21:42
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Originally Posted by KW Driver View Post
watching that Trooper's (game warden maybe?)
Check the passenger headrest...
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  #25  
Old 14 May 2019, 22:43
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It’s been awhile
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  #26  
Old 15 May 2019, 10:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Eyes, ears, gloves...every time you leave the perimeter, all the time.
Oh I had gloves on.
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

- "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
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  #27  
Old 15 May 2019, 12:34
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Originally Posted by KW Driver View Post
watching that Trooper's (game warden maybe?) dash cam vid, he was definitely suppressing the headache bar and rear of the cab all tightly around the driver while they were still rolling. some of the round probably got through the rear window.
This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47ONDlR9aY

Easiest to see the impacts in the FLIR window. Nice shooting.
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  #28  
Old 15 May 2019, 15:08
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All in the name of officer safety, I guess...
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  #29  
Old 15 May 2019, 15:38
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Originally Posted by hawkdrver View Post
This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47ONDlR9aY

Easiest to see the impacts in the FLIR window. Nice shooting.
yeah, that's the one. been a bit since I'd seen it.
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  #30  
Old 15 May 2019, 15:53
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Disclaimer up front, not trying to start an argument, but honest question - what was up with all the rounds after the guy went down? Couldn't really tell from the video.
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  #31  
Old 15 May 2019, 22:28
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Originally Posted by hawkdrver View Post
Disclaimer up front, not trying to start an argument, but honest question - what was up with all the rounds after the guy went down? Couldn't really tell from the video.
I'm being serious, to paraphrase a Florida Sheriff when asked why they shot the subject 68 times: They still had bullets. It happens.

https://www.ocala.com/article/LK/200.../604243496/OS/


The Supreme Court has held that when authorized to use deadly force (shoot) LEOs can shoot and continue to shoot until the subject is no longer a threat. It is a much more liberal standard than the Law of War.
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  #32  
Old 16 May 2019, 07:50
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Originally Posted by hawkdrver View Post
Disclaimer up front, not trying to start an argument, but honest question - what was up with all the rounds after the guy went down? Couldn't really tell from the video.
Just because someone is in the prone does not mean they are, or are attempting, to fire back at you.

Neutralize the threat.
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  #33  
Old 16 May 2019, 08:07
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Rgr, thanks. Figured he was still reaching for a pistol or something along those lines. Hard to tell from the video.
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  #34  
Old 16 May 2019, 09:27
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We have trained to shoot through vehicle glass but it was a counter ambush training, not while scooting down the road throwing hot ones willy nilly.
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  #35  
Old 16 May 2019, 09:45
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Originally Posted by FinsUp View Post
We have trained to shoot through vehicle glass but it was a counter ambush training, not while scooting down the road throwing hot ones willy nilly.
Most department's policies weren't absolute when I was a LEO (which was close up on 20 years ago, no idea if that has changed)..."Shooting at a moving vehicles is generally discouraged" etc. There are certain practices that rarely result in good outcomes: shooting while driving, firing warning shots, intentionally shooting to wound vice shooting to neutralize the threat, it's a long list. While these rarely result in good outcomes, there are certainly situations in which these practices are a viable option. A good cop may have need to do something that is generally discouraged in order to resolve a situation in the best possible manner...put a cop on the street who is lacking in judgment, and pretty quick we get great examples of exactly why many practices are generally discouraged.
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  #36  
Old 16 May 2019, 09:50
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Just remember - in this case, the driver was fired, so it's not like "atta-boys" were flying around. Also, Van Dyke in Chicago kept shooting at his "threat" and is in jail.
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On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.”

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time”

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  #37  
Old 16 May 2019, 10:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Just remember - in this case, the driver was fired, so it's not like "atta-boys" were flying around. Also, Van Dyke in Chicago kept shooting at his "threat" and is in jail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
...put a cop on the street who is lacking in judgment, and pretty quick we get great examples of exactly why many practices are generally discouraged.
...
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  #38  
Old 17 May 2019, 23:42
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I'm more wondering why the driver was shooting when he had a perfectly capable (in theory, I suppose) passenger that could have engaged while he....you know...drove.
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  #39  
Old 18 May 2019, 07:44
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Originally Posted by SHHINT View Post
I'm more wondering why the driver was shooting when he had a perfectly capable (in theory, I suppose) passenger that could have engaged while he....you know...drove.
Ego.
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  #40  
Old 28 May 2019, 19:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
From a previous thread on this (I think Sharky said it? Vegas chase?)
I was told by another Metro guy that the officer in that vid took minor disciplinary of some type for doing that, FWTW. Also that he got hits, even though as we discussed here on SOCNET, he was well further away than "you can hit someone if he's 15 feet in front of your bumper". Apparently the first few rounds were sort of (still aimed though) to create the hole to shoot through, after which he got those hits.

As far as ear pro for cops goes, one of the instructors at WPS in 2013 had the cheapest of the sets these guys offer and was well pleased with them. Used to keep them turned up to hear people talking well out of normal range.

https://www.espamerica.com/
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