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  #61  
Old 20 January 2018, 19:55
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Massgrunt Massgrunt is offline
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Originally Posted by Dangerous View Post
Rate of fire and distance come to mind first. Example, Bob is accused of shooting Bill 10-times in 5-seconds at 150 meters. Bob only had a smooth bore black powder muzzle loader.
Yes but how likely is that scenario?

I had court the other day and the prosecutor asked me what kind of fun the defendant had. I momentarily blanked and thought of this thread.
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  #62  
Old 20 January 2018, 21:10
Agoge Agoge is offline
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Originally Posted by Dangerous View Post
Rate of fire and distance come to mind first. Example, Bob is accused of shooting Bill 10-times in 5-seconds at 150 meters. Bob only had a smooth bore black powder muzzle loader.
He still wouldn't need the "make and model" for that type of questioning. Only the fact that it couldn't shoot at that rate.
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  #63  
Old 20 January 2018, 22:18
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Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
He still wouldn't need the "make and model" for that type of questioning. Only the fact that it couldn't shoot at that rate.
Distance also. If you make/made your life with guns, you can tell a bunch by make and model.
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  #64  
Old 20 January 2018, 22:36
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I think a realistic scenario where that level of detail matters is very unlikely, particularly in a grand jury where the burden of proof is very low.
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

- "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
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  #65  
Old 20 January 2018, 22:38
Agoge Agoge is offline
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I think a realistic scenario where that level of detail matters is very unlikely, particularly in a grand jury where the burden of proof is very low.
I've had armed robberies where the weapon was placed in the victim's mouth and those questions played no part in the grand jury.

Without knowing more, I can't see where that would ever be relevant in a Grand Jury.
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  #66  
Old 21 January 2018, 00:33
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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"He was carrying a gun known to be easily concealable."

"What was it?"

"A Smith & Wesson .500."
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  #67  
Old 21 January 2018, 09:12
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Originally Posted by bobmueller View Post
"He was carrying a gun known to be easily concealable."

"What was it?"

"A Smith & Wesson .500."
But in what scenario would that be relevant? A realistic one now, not one engineered for the question.
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

- "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
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  #68  
Old 21 January 2018, 09:24
Agoge Agoge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmueller View Post
"He was carrying a gun known to be easily concealable."

"What was it?"

"A Smith & Wesson .500."
No LEO would assume a Smith & Wesson 500 would be concealable unless maybe a four inch; however, that still isn't important in a Grand Jury environment. There comes a point where people either need to learn the way a Grand Jury functions or give up on the scenarios.
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  #69  
Old 21 January 2018, 09:41
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Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
No LEO would assume a Smith & Wesson 500 would be concealable unless maybe a four inch; however, that still isn't important in a Grand Jury environment. There comes a point where people either need to learn the way a Grand Jury functions or give up on the scenarios.
I've carried a full size 1911 wearing UDTs and a tank top. I know I posted a pic on here of a me packing a full-sized Glock wearing UDTs.
You guys just get mad the GJ won't indict at the drop of a hat.
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  #70  
Old 21 January 2018, 09:44
Agoge Agoge is offline
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I've carried a full size 1911 wearing UDTs and a tank top. I know I posted a pic on here of a me packing a full-sized Glock wearing UDTs.
You guys just get mad the GJ won't indict at the drop of a hat.
Hey now...I'm not saying a 500 can't be carried concealed. I caught a shoplifter with a full fifth of JD in his pants. He was doing the abdomen carry and almost got away with it...so it can be done....
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  #71  
Old 21 January 2018, 14:43
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
But in what scenario would that be relevant? A realistic one now, not one engineered for the question.
I got nothing for that question, which is a completely fair question.
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  #72  
Old 21 January 2018, 17:50
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Originally Posted by bobmueller View Post
I got nothing for that question, which is a completely fair question.
Whoa whoa whoa no reasonable responses please!
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

- "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
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  #73  
Old 21 January 2018, 18:38
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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I've always wanted to say "Phase plasma rifle in the 40 watt range" under oath.
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  #74  
Old 21 January 2018, 18:48
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
Whoa whoa whoa no reasonable responses please!
Ah, crap! Back to my lane then.
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  #75  
Old 21 January 2018, 20:23
Fu King Lawyer Fu King Lawyer is offline
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I've been reading - and am not trying to stir this one up, further. But

I am still thinking the question was reasonable. Scenarios: When you have multiple armed subjects arrested who are about to be indicted and a victim that was shot by one of them during the event? GJ reviewing an officer involved shooting? Every case involving a ballistic comparison? Multiple BOP guard(s) introducing f/a into prison? Armed robbery caught on camera, with one of the subjects "pistol whipping" the teller? While an Article 32 UCMJ issue rather than a GJ, unit members return from combat with "war trophies" and one "trophy" is recovered by DEA during a drug buy?

There was mention earlier of a GJ wanting a VIN which is their right to ask - again, their right to ask. They are an investigating body not to be dismissed. I suggest if they ask for make and model, the witness be prepared and able to answer. Proving up the firearm is an element of the offense. There have been cases where prosecutors have lost control of a GJ and that I have read, gets ugly.
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  #76  
Old 22 January 2018, 18:12
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Believeraz Believeraz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8654maine View Post
I've always wanted to say "Phase plasma rifle in the 40 watt range" under oath.
I have.
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