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  #61  
Old 5 August 2019, 09:45
Jakers Jakers is offline
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Originally Posted by nofear View Post
I think the trap is thinking that "unspeakable" violence is a new thing. It isn't. It's been around for millennia.

It's been around a hell of a lot longer than firearms have existed. The media though...hasn't.

IMHO, the media have a lot more responsibility for these activities than any other aspect of life, (with maybe the sole exception being inappropriate medication).
Of course the media shares part of the blame- I don't mean to imply that it's JUST video games that are the problem. It's everything, from the loss of culture, society degrading, loss of parents, loss of social structure and support, improper psychotherapy ala meds, the list just goes on and on. Video games (and movies, and TV and comics and every type of sensory stimulation) just help to desensitize and normalize.

The thought to do this may have always been around, but the thought to actually act on it wasn't. Guns have always been around and easy to get- maybe not something with a capacity of what's being used but enough. And easier in many ways to buy in the past. So what has changed? Everything, to the point that these thoughts are now acted on.

And the age bracket that is responsible is on the low end of the spectrum. When I was growing up there was Columbine, the geek who shot up the prayer group and maybe one other. I saw a stat yesterday that said since 2006 there have been eleven episodes of teens to early 20's pulling this crap. 11. Why? It sure as shit ain't guns that are making this happen.
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  #62  
Old 5 August 2019, 09:57
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
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That just screams I'm Entitled, Damnit! Imagine That!
I don't see entitled. I see "I'm lost."
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  #63  
Old 5 August 2019, 10:02
Wxguy Wxguy is offline
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[QUOTE=Streck-Fu;1058808654]The problem with blaming the games is that far magnitudes of order more people play first person shooters that never commit a violent act.
The video game a weak scapegoat.
It is more probable that people with violent fantasies are attracted to violent video games rather than the games being a cause.

Agreed. A couple of years ago, just for shits and grins I ran some numbers to support a theory I have.

Looking back 30 years before the advent of internet and social media vs 20 afterward the numbers begin to tell their story.

Most of here can remember back to a time when there was not 24/7/365 bombardment of stories like these.

When they did make the air you heard it maybe two or three times in total and there wasn't the blow by blow second by second detail that the media is so passionate to provide now.

Granted we didn't have the accessibility to information back then as we do today, but because we didn't there wasn't the exposure either.

The numbers don't lie. Prior to 1991 there were some mass shooting incidents, but nowhere near the type of escalation after the advent of telnet, BBS, internet,high speed networking, and the evolution of social media today.

Again this is just one piece of the puzzle, but IMHO it is a major one especially when you have individuals as many have described here with no moral guidelines, no family support system, depressed,agitiated, ignored etc..

Along comes the onslaught of information from all media avenues telling these individuals that if you want your 15 minutes of fame, here's what you need to do.

I believe in freedom of the press and freedom of speech, however again IMHO those freedoms come with a degree of responsibility and accountability that has become increasingly discarded over the last 10 years or more.

I think if we reign in those in our media to keep reporting to fact based without the blow by blow commentary, the endless opinion editorials etc., we might see a bit of a positive change away from these incidents.

The question then becomes since we've let this get so far out of hand, how do we start to reign it back into what professional journalism is supposed to be?

Thoughts?
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  #64  
Old 5 August 2019, 10:11
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As someone else already stated, I don't think Mako was blaming the video games. He said they are a contributing factor. I think we all are smart enough to know that millions of normal everyday people play video games and don't commit mass shootings. It's the ones who already have the natural or SSRI-induced susceptibility and then you add in the ultra-realistic first person shooter games that give them a fantasy world where they are the ultimate power....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this goes. I think the most apparent aspect in the actual mass shooting that is drawn from the video games is the ability to just shoot random people. Old ladies, toddlers, anything in between.....makes no difference. The lack of a specific person(s) to target for whatever perceived wrong the shooter is there for (IMHO) is very much indicative of the video game influence.

So, while the games are certainly not taking over peoples minds and causing this shit, they certainly aren't helping matters when combined with the right troubled person, and the right medications, and a lack of social skills etc.

Diesel fuel isn't evil either, but when you combine it with the right amount of ammonium nitrate, pack it into a 55-gallon drum, give it a booster charge, and an ignition system, diesel can lead to some bad shit.
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  #65  
Old 5 August 2019, 10:21
BionicDamien BionicDamien is offline
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I've been spending time on Red Dead Redemption 2 lately (online)

Mostly, it's people just running about hunting, or shooting each other, but every now and then there's some yayhoo in town murdering everyone, players, townsfolk, all....we need to find those types of guys lol
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  #66  
Old 5 August 2019, 10:37
currahee3-4 currahee3-4 is offline
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Originally Posted by BionicDamien View Post
I've been playing games in some form or another since NES, still do!

Never wanted to shoot anyone, and it never diminished my appreciation for the finality of death, it was just a game as it should wholeheartedly be.

I feel it's disheartening and unfair to victims to give these fucking scum any sort of out or excuse, whether it be video games or any other reason.
No one is giving them an excuse but an explanation is that to a person they all have mental issues.

I am just going to guess that you dont have some underlying mental issues that may feed upon whats being suggested and I am also going to guess that you are more in touch with reality than these crazies. There are many factors and the video game culture most certainly can nurture the wrong person as well as movies. I used to be hardcore against people who said such things but then as my experience grew and I saw just how many people there are with a not so strong grip on reality my opinions have changed. Go look around the internet for five minutes and you will find quite a few people who seem to barely be holding on to reality and a little "encouragement" might be enough to set them off.

Obviously, there are a whole bunch of other things at play in our society but the producers of these games and the parents who let their kids play, watch and do whatever they please with no consequences. In fact IMO a lot of it starts at home and with how our society treats kids now. Zero discipline and coddled at every turn. We are raising generations with no spine and no coping mechanisms and medicating them into ( but in many cases out of) reality.

The answers arent simple but I keep a close eye on my guns and not one of them has shown the ability to make decisions for themselves.
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  #67  
Old 5 August 2019, 10:40
currahee3-4 currahee3-4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jakers View Post
Why are they (more and more) always children or near children?

Spoiled, attention seeking, blinders wearing, no concept of the real world, likely over medicated, under-parented, under socialized (in reality where it matters) undisciplined children.

If they live they should be executed and their names forgotten, but never the true cause for why they did what they did.

And no matter if they live or die, their parent's, or whatever sorry excuse for humans had that role should share their fate.

Oh, and fucks the MSM and libs who will use this to further their goals.
Seems reasonable.
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  #68  
Old 5 August 2019, 10:42
BionicDamien BionicDamien is offline
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Originally Posted by currahee3-4 View Post
No one is giving them an excuse but an explanation is that to a person they all have mental issues.

I am just going to guess that you dont have some underlying mental issues that may feed upon whats being suggested and I am also going to guess that you are more in touch with reality than these crazies. There are many factors and the video game culture most certainly can nurture the wrong person as well as movies. I used to be hardcore against people who said such things but then as my experience grew and I saw just how many people there are with a not so strong grip on reality my opinions have changed. Go look around the internet for five minutes and you will find quite a few people who seem to barely be holding on to reality and a little "encouragement" might be enough to set them off.

Obviously, there are a whole bunch of other things at play in our society but the producers of these games and the parents who let their kids play, watch and do whatever they please with no consequences. In fact IMO a lot of it starts at home and with how our society treats kids now. Zero discipline and coddled at every turn. We are raising generations with no spine and no coping mechanisms and medicating them into ( but in many cases out of) reality.

The answers arent simple but I keep a close eye on my guns and not one of them has shown the ability to make decisions for themselves.
All fair points. I just think it's more of a symptom than an actual cause.
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  #69  
Old 5 August 2019, 10:47
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We also live in a country with over 300 million people. Even if you eliminate many of the ills of society talked about in this thread that contribute, and even if you were to ban all “assault rifles “ with over 300 million you are still going to occasionally get the crazy/evil person that slips through the cracks and finds a way to mass murder or serial murder. Been that way since beginning of time. It only takes one.

Look at China. Impossible for a citizen to own a gun there. Yet everyone and then they have some crazy guy with a meat cleaver or butchers knife who goes on a rampage at a school or public area.

Liberals in my area are going ballistic today on social media wanting all out gun bans. Yet I remind them the most gruesome multiple homicide seen on innocent people in this community over the last 20 years, was a sexually enraged crazy Chinese university student who killed with a hammer.
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  #70  
Old 5 August 2019, 10:48
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
...I think the most apparent aspect in the actual mass shooting that is drawn from the video games is the ability to just shoot random people. Old ladies, toddlers, anything in between.....makes no difference. The lack of a specific person(s) to target for whatever perceived wrong the shooter is there for (IMHO) is very much indicative of the video game influence....
Quote:
Originally Posted by currahee3-4 View Post
No one is giving them an excuse but an explanation is that to a person they all have mental issues.
...
The Germans of 1933-1945 didn't need video games or have mental issues, and slaughtered old people, the mentally handicapped, and children, all by themselves. Not only a few either... Millions. The people who came up with these pogroms were college educated (in most instances) some doctors... lawyers...

Hate and evil brothers... you can't legislate against either and expect to stop or cure it. All you can do is be prepared to fight it at every turn.
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  #71  
Old 5 August 2019, 11:00
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Polypro Polypro is offline
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Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
The Germans of 1933-1945 didn't need video games or have mental issues, and slaughtered old people, the mentally handicapped, and children, all by themselves. Not only a few either... Millions. The people who came up with these pogroms were college educated (in most instances) some doctors... lawyers...

Hate and evil brothers... you can't legislate against either and expect to stop or cure it. All you can do is be prepared to fight it at every turn.

Yup. We need to make 'evil' instantly expensive for those that want to enact it. The biggest mistake Leftists make, is applying "good people logic" to sociopaths... only good people follow laws.
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On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.”

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time”

“Take the guns first, go through due process second”

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court"

Last edited by Polypro; 5 August 2019 at 11:06.
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  #72  
Old 5 August 2019, 11:03
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
As someone else already stated, I don't think Mako was blaming the video games. He said they are a contributing factor.
Yea, I don't want convey that shit like that has zero impact. I used to think Nature over Nurture, until I brought a Cat into the house with a GSD and they became best friends. I also don't want to give hypocritical Hollywood and Silicon Valley a free pass - "we hate guns...go see Liam Neeson gun down 500 people..."
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On February 20, 2018, President Trump issued a memorandum instructing the Attorney General “to dedicate all available resources to… propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.”

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida ... to go to court would have taken a long time”

“Take the guns first, go through due process second”

"Or, Mike, take the firearms first, and then go to court"
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  #73  
Old 5 August 2019, 12:13
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MakoZeroSix MakoZeroSix is offline
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Originally Posted by nofear View Post
Lots of people play those games and then do NOT go out and commit violence.

Violence and parasitic behaviour has been around since the dawn of humanity. Blaming video games is shallow thinking. Bit like blaming firearms...
Sigh. I get it, you and every other person on here loves their first person shooters. So do I, BTW.

Your argument is akin to "well my pit bull is super sweet" while ignoring that pit bulls are involved in the majority of dog attacks.

Like some have pointed out- I'm not saying violent videogames are the sole cause of this- but they do desensitize kids to violence to an extreme level, and link violent behavior to the release of dopamine, which they spend much of their days doing- and when you combine that with mental illness and a total lack of religion or connection to family and society, you have a toxic cocktail, and that is why we have so many of these.

I'm not calling for a ban of first person shooters- but I am calling on the shaming of parents for allowing their fucking 9 year olds to play "Fortnight" all day and all night, a particularly appalling game where now fetishized gun violence is made into a cartoon to target even younger kids and make them think killing other people is normal, and fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Right - every time I see a house on fire, I see Fire Trucks... Fire Trucks cause house fires.
Try not to be willfully pedantic.
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  #74  
Old 5 August 2019, 12:24
19MIKE 19MIKE is offline
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Wasn't there a discussion in a mass shooting thread here awhile back where these events seem to happen in clusters....and that there is some on-going study using algorithms to try and predict future events?

Sad to say but I was thinking a couple weeks ago when the weather turned hot that "it's been awhile since we've had any major incidents".
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  #75  
Old 5 August 2019, 12:33
BionicDamien BionicDamien is offline
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My daughter loves Fortnite and Minecraft, she's 12.

I would play any game with her she wanted to once she was old enough to manipulate a controller....Resident Evil, COD Zombies, Gears of War coop, etc. It was just something we did.

But ultimately she gravitated to games like Minecraft and Fortnite (it's a cartoon with guns and you hop around building ladders and fortifications for yourself essentially, probably one of the least threatening games you can think of on the market today, it's a remake of shit we saw 15 years ago with sandbox added in)
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  #76  
Old 5 August 2019, 12:43
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When society is geared toward placing value, not in actual values, but in the number of "likes" and "followers" (fame/notoriety), and you know that you don't have what it takes to get either of those...unless...you do something big, something shocking...

Think about it. The youngest Jenner kid is the world's youngest self-made billionaire because her older sister made a sex tape with a rapper and her dad thinks he's a woman. She's not a chemist who invented makeup. She just puts her name on the makeup, and because she has 300,000,000+ "followers" on Instagram...presto, billionaire (with a "b"). You could cure cancer and our fucked up society wouldn't find you as valuable as that little twat.

None of these kids have anything to offer that matches what society deems valuable. The only way for them to "be somebody" is to do something like this.
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  #77  
Old 5 August 2019, 12:51
BionicDamien BionicDamien is offline
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Originally Posted by KS11 View Post
When society is geared toward placing value, not in actual values, but in the number of "likes" and "followers" (fame/notoriety), and you know that you don't have what it takes to get either of those...unless...you do something big, something shocking...

Think about it. The youngest Jenner kid is the world's youngest self-made billionaire because her older sister made a sex tape with a rapper
Mostly true, but that wouldn't work if she was piggish (RIP SEAL Steve!)

She's more of an indictment on shit today than anything else. I truly believe her wealth is other people's mistake(s).
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  #78  
Old 5 August 2019, 13:32
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I agree that there a multiple factors involved in mass-shootings. The ideology of the actor might play a secondary role, I believe that moral relativism is at the core of these events (and many other things we see happening nowadays).
The reason I said that ideology is secondary is that, while their beliefs are undoubtedly bad ones, I believe that the ideologies are only the canvas they use to live out their nihilistic, destructive disdain for life and the world.

In a similar line of thought, I believe that a lot of the MSM outlets and talking heads have a large responsibility in these atrocities.
Day in and day out they are telling people that POTUS is dog-whistling to white nationalists, fascists - that there is some barely hidden agenda of hatred etc. Now... what if the wrong person, that is truly carrying the above mentioned nihilistic hatred in them starts to wrongly believe that POTUS is indeed supporting their "agenda"?

There's a lot to unpack with this topic, and I'm convinced it's not as black and white as many want to believe - and the solution isn't an overnight gun ban. Removing this cancer from our society will take at least as long as it took for it to fester, decades.
And that is assuming that people start to recognize that e.g. religion has been part of our society for a reason, family is important, spending your life in a virtual reality is unhealthy, the list is long.
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  #79  
Old 5 August 2019, 13:39
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Originally Posted by KS11 View Post
Think about it. The youngest Jenner kid is the world's youngest self-made billionaire because her older sister made a sex tape with a rapper and her dad thinks he's a woman. She's not a chemist who invented makeup. She just puts her name on the makeup, and because she has 300,000,000+ "followers" on Instagram...

That is an emotionally devastating truth.


In contrast to using your morally depraved social status to gain fame and wealth, Neil deGrasse Tyson posts an objective look at contemporary American tragedy and he is immediately lambasted on social media...

Quote:
In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.
On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…
500 to Medical errors
300 to the Flu
250 to Suicide
200 to Car Accidents
40 to Homicide via Handgun
Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.
...but hey, post a sex tape and buy some fake titties if you want more friends


America is in an existential crisis because of our downward spiraling culture that DEMANDS emotional validation. So much so that in almost every case of public violence you can identify a troubled person lashing out because society has refused to "validate" them.


and here we are - still blaming rocks for broken windows and forks for obesity
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  #80  
Old 5 August 2019, 13:45
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I just saw a shitlib on Facebook refer to blaming video games as a "racist dog whistle."
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