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  #241  
Old 5 November 2019, 11:51
meatpaws meatpaws is offline
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Thanks for the info Poly. I was diagnosed with anemia and low testosterone and I’m 36. I was put on Clomid which has brought my testosterone back to optimum levels. Just like you said, I’m looking to replace what has been lost, it’s be nice to feel like I did 10 years ago. My fitness goals have shifted from solely trying to get as strong as I can to focusing on longevity while building lasting strength and endurance. Not really looking for a silver bullet anymore but I am trying to supplement my system as I age.
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  #242  
Old 5 November 2019, 13:16
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Thanks for the info Poly. I was diagnosed with anemia and low testosterone and Iím 36. I was put on Clomid which has brought my testosterone back to optimum levels. Just like you said, Iím looking to replace what has been lost, itís be nice to feel like I did 10 years ago. My fitness goals have shifted from solely trying to get as strong as I can to focusing on longevity while building lasting strength and endurance. Not really looking for a silver bullet anymore but I am trying to supplement my system as I age.
Clomiphene (Clomid) is awesome if you're a responder, congrats. Yeah, I'd just grab the Sublingual DHEA Tabs and Preg Capsules from Life Extension, and call it a day.
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  #243  
Old 5 November 2019, 17:02
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About "Pregesterone":

I was prescribed troches that I took once. I had a lingering headache for about 72 hours following that and my physician advised me against continuing to take it.

So I've now been on Test and HCG for two months. Just ran out of HCG (according to them intentional) and will be getting my refills at the end of this month after a blood panel workup.

One thing I'm a little concerned about is that I'm feeling a little more...aggressive without the HCG. I don't know if that's actually scientifically possible but am curious to hear if anyone else has felt that way.
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  #244  
Old 6 November 2019, 01:00
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Hey AZ, Iíll be interested in the results of how youíre feeling on DHEA and Preg, Iím looking into ordering it also.
Not so sure that I can really tell a difference thus far. Actually there's only been one morning since I got my pellets that I woke up thinking "wow, I feel like a million bucks!"
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  #245  
Old 6 November 2019, 06:28
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About "Pregesterone":
Did you mean to type Pregnenolone? Progesterone is a female sex hormone. If Pregnenolone, oral is the preferred method of delivery, in order for first pass liver metabolism to do it's thing. A troche would be sublingual, by passing first pass metabolism - that may have had something to do with it? I'd get the 50mg Life Extension caps and take one and see if the headache returns. But of course your Doc has final say.

HCG is a Luteinizing Hormone mimetic. LH triggers the testes to produce Testosterone. Before we get old and decrepit, our bodies produce LH every day. The 10 units/day we take mimics that. Since T production is suppressed while on exogenous T, not much gets produced via HCG/LH, but it's enough to prevent testicular atrophy - as well as supply the LH receptors all over the body besides the testes. Your Doc may be giving your Leydig cells a break (Leydig produce T, Sertoli produce Sperm). But the small amounts we take shouldn't burn them out? I do 20 units Every Other Day, just to line up with my T, so I'm getting a "break" that way. But as above - it gets produced daily in young men.

I don't see how LH or lack there of, would increase aggression (and there is a healthy amount of aggression to have, for sure) - that's a function of DHT, which is produced via the 5-Alpha Reductase Enzyme, converting Testosterone into it. But different people react differently, go with what the Doc says. (Maybe pull DHT on your next lab panel - mine is off the fricken chart, I have a ton of 5AR enzyme - but I don't have an excess aggression problem (generally a big myth for Testosterone - we all know assholes who aren't on Testosterone injections).
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  #246  
Old 6 November 2019, 13:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Did you mean to type Pregnenolone? Progesterone is a female sex hormone. If Pregnenolone, oral is the preferred method of delivery, in order for first pass liver metabolism to do it's thing. A troche would be sublingual, by passing first pass metabolism - that may have had something to do with it? I'd get the 50mg Life Extension caps and take one and see if the headache returns. But of course your Doc has final say.

HCG is a Luteinizing Hormone mimetic. LH triggers the testes to produce Testosterone. Before we get old and decrepit, our bodies produce LH every day. The 10 units/day we take mimics that. Since T production is suppressed while on exogenous T, not much gets produced via HCG/LH, but it's enough to prevent testicular atrophy - as well as supply the LH receptors all over the body besides the testes. Your Doc may be giving your Leydig cells a break (Leydig produce T, Sertoli produce Sperm). But the small amounts we take shouldn't burn them out? I do 20 units Every Other Day, just to line up with my T, so I'm getting a "break" that way. But as above - it gets produced daily in young men.

I don't see how LH or lack there of, would increase aggression (and there is a healthy amount of aggression to have, for sure) - that's a function of DHT, which is produced via the 5-Alpha Reductase Enzyme, converting Testosterone into it. But different people react differently, go with what the Doc says. (Maybe pull DHT on your next lab panel - mine is off the fricken chart, I have a ton of 5AR enzyme - but I don't have an excess aggression problem (generally a big myth for Testosterone - we all know assholes who aren't on Testosterone injections).
Yes, you are correct. Also, donít type posts on the phone on Socnet

Thanks for the insights. Scheduled for a blood panel tomorrow, now, and looking forward to seeing the updated values.
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  #247  
Old 8 November 2019, 14:19
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About "Pregesterone":

One thing I'm a little concerned about is that I'm feeling a little more...aggressive without the HCG. I don't know if that's actually scientifically possible but am curious to hear if anyone else has felt that way.
Yes I have personally and have seen it in my patients. But probably nothing to do with not having hCG even though it is back filling other hormones. Hormones are delicate and everyone responds differently. In my experience it is the elevated "T" values that will do that and elevation of other things that come with that what Poly hit on. Plus hCG will slightly elevate your T also so without it you are going in the other direction.

What I have seen, if you are an "A" hole before therapy, therapy can make you a bigger "A" hole but not turn you into one. A little aggression/shortness yes. The answer is to lower your dose if it continues.
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  #248  
Old 20 November 2019, 20:34
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This site was recommended by a geneticist who spoke with my office recently.
https://selfhacked.com/about/
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  #249  
Old 21 November 2019, 16:42
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Wow. Another great thread on SOCNET. I just spent some time reading and saving links, so thank you all. I reached out to a local clinic for a consult with the Doc and printed a bunch of stuff out to ask him.
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  #250  
Old 21 November 2019, 19:25
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Here's my first review and comparison. Doctor wants to keep me on the same dosage and get me to 1k, lower my estrogen a little, and has me scheduled to give blood this coming week.


August 25th blood panel results:



November 15th blood panel results:

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  #251  
Old 22 November 2019, 10:14
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Doctor wants to keep me on the same dosage and get me to 1k, lower my estrogen a little, and has me scheduled to give blood this coming week.
My non-Doc opinion: Overall, looks good. I don't know if you have another healthcare provider pulling bloods for general health checkups - but you should really add a basic CBC to your labs to check Hemoglobin, Hematocrit, and RBC. A little out of range never killed anybody (millions live in mountains all over the planet), but you don't want some drastically out of range numbers. There is a really rare condition called Polycythemia that should be ruled out. Testosterone is Erythropoietic on it's own (different from PolyC), so numbers usually increase - you just don't want a WAY OUT OF RANGE increase.

Looking to go from 800 to 1,000, without upping the dose, is probably not going to happen. 90 days is a good length of time to see the effect - doubtful it will go up that much without intervention.

Your Estrodiol is fine. It's below LabCorp's Max (42.6) - and those values are conservative. You want to avoid taking an Aromatase Inhibitor at all costs - they are nothing but bad for healthy people. Estrogen is SO HEALTHY - Libido, Bone Strength, Blood Lipids, Muscle Accrual - ALL DUE TO ESTROGEN. If you don't have itchy, painful breast tissue - I'd ask to let the E2 just ride...

Edit: Just read your last part - donate blood? That's usually done because of abnormally high RBC, etc... Do you *have* a current CBC showing high numbers in those areas? I mean, it won't hurt, obviously - and is good for others... but is it needed?
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Last edited by Polypro; 25 November 2019 at 09:19.
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  #252  
Old 27 November 2019, 18:30
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I've been diagnosed with low T at the start of the year and was prescribed Testogel:

https://www.nps.org.au/medicine-finder/testogel-sachet

Which hasn't been doing jack for my condition.

Anyone have any experience with this product?
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  #253  
Old 28 November 2019, 08:38
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Originally Posted by ironpaw View Post
I've been diagnosed with low T at the start of the year and was prescribed Testogel:

https://www.nps.org.au/medicine-finder/testogel-sachet

Which hasn't been doing jack for my condition.

Anyone have any experience with this product?

Your experience is not uncommon. Those products exist because of BS negative bias / holier than thou attitudes in the medical community. If your doctor is willing to introduce exogenous Testosterone into your blood stream - what f'n difference does it make, how it's delivered?

Over-priced, under-performing is how I'd describe them. Look at the drug insert - they are all (usually) 5 grams of total product, that contain 50mg of Testosterone, of which, only ~10% is *supposed* to make it into circulation. Do the math on how much money is wasted. Also, let's take them at their word, that 10% actually makes it into your blood stream - lets also go with the "double dose" scheme, allowed by the Mfg/Doctors. That's 10mg of T per day, or 70mg a week. My 900'ish levels are achieved by INJECTING *180mg* a week - anybody wonder why transdermal creams and gels, suck?

Ask to switch to injections, or find another Doc, would be my recco.


Edit: Here are the actual numbers for the most popular US product, just to show that my above generalization is correct:

Androgel 1% 10% bioavailable 1 pump = 12.5 mg Or 1 packet = 25 mg Or 1 packet = 50 mg of testosterone. Dose: Four pump actuations, two 25 mg packets or one 50 mg packet.
Androgel 1.62% 1 pump = 20.25 mg Or 1 packet = 40.5 mg of testosterone. Dose: Two pump actuations or one 40.5 mg packet.

Note* Pretty sure the "Double Dose" thing is legit - if it isn't, the above numbers show it's even worse: 10% of 40/50mg is 4/5mg x 7 Days = 28/35mg a week of Testosterone... watch out ladies
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RUMINT: Late October - The President is making it known, that his administration does not favor Red Flag Laws. Cautiously optimistic...

Last edited by Polypro; 28 November 2019 at 08:57.
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  #254  
Old 28 November 2019, 12:49
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I got a script and ordered the cream from Australia and saw no improvement. Back to the monthly shot.
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  #255  
Old 28 November 2019, 18:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Your experience is not uncommon. Those products exist because of BS negative bias / holier than thou attitudes in the medical community. If your doctor is willing to introduce exogenous Testosterone into your blood stream - what f'n difference does it make, how it's delivered?

Over-priced, under-performing is how I'd describe them. Look at the drug insert - they are all (usually) 5 grams of total product, that contain 50mg of Testosterone, of which, only ~10% is *supposed* to make it into circulation. Do the math on how much money is wasted. Also, let's take them at their word, that 10% actually makes it into your blood stream - lets also go with the "double dose" scheme, allowed by the Mfg/Doctors. That's 10mg of T per day, or 70mg a week. My 900'ish levels are achieved by INJECTING *180mg* a week - anybody wonder why transdermal creams and gels, suck?

Ask to switch to injections, or find another Doc, would be my recco.


Edit: Here are the actual numbers for the most popular US product, just to show that my above generalization is correct:

Androgel 1% 10% bioavailable 1 pump = 12.5 mg Or 1 packet = 25 mg Or 1 packet = 50 mg of testosterone. Dose: Four pump actuations, two 25 mg packets or one 50 mg packet.
Androgel 1.62% 1 pump = 20.25 mg Or 1 packet = 40.5 mg of testosterone. Dose: Two pump actuations or one 40.5 mg packet.

Note* Pretty sure the "Double Dose" thing is legit - if it isn't, the above numbers show it's even worse: 10% of 40/50mg is 4/5mg x 7 Days = 28/35mg a week of Testosterone... watch out ladies
Yeah, I'm on the max dosage (2 50mg packets per day) and I'm not seeing any improvements.

I'll ask the doc to switch to shots...and hope for the best.
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  #256  
Old 29 November 2019, 05:26
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Originally Posted by ironpaw View Post
Yeah, I'm on the max dosage (2 50mg packets per day) and I'm not seeing any improvements.

I'll ask the doc to switch to shots...and hope for the best.
I'd like to know your Pre-Gel number vs Post-Gel number. Most people aren't at 0 when they start TRT, they're trickling out in the 100-300 ng/dl range. Improper dosing of exogenous T can actually make you worse believe it or not - it suppresses what little you had being made, but isn't enough to do anything. A Net Zero is also possible. You have bloodwork?
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  #257  
Old 5 December 2019, 21:08
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Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
I'd like to know your Pre-Gel number vs Post-Gel number. Most people aren't at 0 when they start TRT, they're trickling out in the 100-300 ng/dl range. Improper dosing of exogenous T can actually make you worse believe it or not - it suppresses what little you had being made, but isn't enough to do anything. A Net Zero is also possible. You have bloodwork?
Had tests done yesterday, will get results and discuss with doc on Monday. Will post them up them.
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  #258  
Old Yesterday, 15:46
Steve40th Steve40th is offline
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I finally got blood work done. The only numbers I have are
TSH 1.86
Free T4 .81

and Testosterone 238
Free Testosterone 40
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