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Old 6 January 2018, 17:15
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Alcohol Extinction, Is It Possible?

The Sinclair Method uses a 50MG dose of Naltrexone one hour prior to drinking to gradually cause an "extinction" of cravings for alcohol.

It is used in Finland, but is almost unheard of in the US, which seems criminal to me.

So if you are struggling with alcohol or other substances and are feeling out of control or frustrated, take a look at these links:

https://www.the-sinclair-method.com/
https://www.recoveringfromrecovery.com/
https://www.cthreefoundation.org/claudias-tedx.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ber-naltrexone
https://www.thefix.com/content/naltr...ent-alcoholism

The documentary "One Little Pill" available free on Amazon Prime
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Last edited by Purple36; 6 January 2018 at 17:40.
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Old 6 January 2018, 19:48
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AA is not a treatment mechanism, it is a loose affiliation of support groups, and as such is not mutually exclusive from the Sinclair Method. AA is also completely nonprofit, whereas the Sinclair Method makes money. The "C Three Foundation" claim that AA makes lots of money off the sale of literature is misleading and deliberately mischaracterizes the nature of AA (and for the record, I am not an AA member).

I read through the websites. This may work for some alcoholics, but only some. There are already similar products available in the US, which also help some alcoholics, but only some. These products have been available for years.

In short, new spin on an old treatment modality.
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Old 6 January 2018, 21:49
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AA is not a treatment mechanism, it is a loose affiliation of support groups, and as such is not mutually exclusive from the Sinclair Method. AA is also completely nonprofit, whereas the Sinclair Method makes money. The "C Three Foundation" claim that AA makes lots of money off the sale of literature is misleading and deliberately mischaracterizes the nature of AA (and for the record, I am not an AA member).

I read through the websites. This may work for some alcoholics, but only some. There are already similar products available in the US, which also help some alcoholics, but only some. These products have been available for years.

In short, new spin on an old treatment modality.
The Sinclair method is a methodolgy, it's the medication that cost money. You don't have go to any special clinic or doctor.

AA requires complete abstinence and sheer willpower while Naltrexone gradually kills the cravings. How Naltrexone is generally prescribed in the US requires abstinence, which is not what the Sinclair method is. I'd say an 80% success rate is pretty darn good.

For some folks AA is helpful, but it's not the only thing out there. My point in posting is not to argue, but to provide links to alternatives for folks who might never have heard about this option. I certainly had not and one of my best friend is an ASAP counselor....
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Old 6 January 2018, 22:02
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AA requires complete abstinence and sheer willpower while Naltrexone gradually kills the cravings. How Naltrexone is generally prescribed in the US requires abstinence, which is not what the Sinclair method is. I'd say an 80% success rate is pretty darn good. .
Actually, AA asks that you turn your will over on a daily basis. It's the 3rd step. Perhaps I misunderstood your use of "sheer willpower" but it seems like you have totally missed the mark. Not trying to be an ass but it's an important distinction.

Also, my mother is a (CSAC) certified substance abuse counselor and has worked in the addiction field for 30+ years. Her view on Naltrexone is consistent with Gavin's.

Last edited by NYwood914; 6 January 2018 at 22:21.
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Old 6 January 2018, 22:07
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I'm not looking to argue, either.

I started reading the links with interest. As I've written about on here before, I am a recovering alcoholic, and I have recently started getting more interested in various treatment and recovery (for many years after getting sober I had little interest in recovery issues).

After reading a bit, I began to get a whiff of snake oil. When I read what others who are pushing the Sinclair method (CThree), I found a whole lot of dishonesty.

That written, as I wrote before, this may work for some alcoholics. It would have never worked for me, and most alcoholics I know. The denial and lack of self-awareness common in most alcoholics would prevent most from trying this.
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Old 6 January 2018, 23:45
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Nothing stopped me from drinking. Not sheer willpower, not Antabuse, not smoking pot. It has taken me several attempts at leaving and coming back, but AA is the only thing that has kept me sober. The success rate isn't great but that's because alcohol is cunning, baffling and powerful.

I had to surrender or I'd be dead by now.
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Old 7 January 2018, 09:43
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Originally Posted by NYwood914 View Post
Actually, AA asks that you turn your will over on a daily basis. It's the 3rd step. Perhaps I misunderstood your use of "sheer willpower" but it seems like you have totally missed the mark. Not trying to be an ass but it's an important distinction.

Also, my mother is a (CSAC) certified substance abuse counselor and has worked in the addiction field for 30+ years. Her view on Naltrexone is consistent with Gavin's.
Please ask your mother if she her understanding of medicating with Naltrexone requires abstinence from alcohol. If so, that is not the same thing. TSM requires that you drink if you use Naltrexone...its how you start changing the endorphin response in your brain, until you simply lose interest in alcohol.

Perhaps I have triggered an unnecessary discussion by labeling this as a AA Alternative.
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Old 7 January 2018, 09:45
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I'm not looking to argue, either.

I started reading the links with interest. As I've written about on here before, I am a recovering alcoholic, and I have recently started getting more interested in various treatment and recovery (for many years after getting sober I had little interest in recovery issues).

After reading a bit, I began to get a whiff of snake oil. When I read what others who are pushing the Sinclair method (CThree), I found a whole lot of dishonesty.

That written, as I wrote before, this may work for some alcoholics. It would have never worked for me, and most alcoholics I know. The denial and lack of self-awareness common in most alcoholics would prevent most from trying this.
That's interesting Gaviin, why do you say it wouldn't work when it actually requires that you drink for it to work?
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Old 7 January 2018, 12:17
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Please ask your mother if she her understanding of medicating with Naltrexone requires abstinence from alcohol. If so, that is not the same thing. TSM requires that you drink if you use Naltrexone...its how you start changing the endorphin response in your brain, until you simply lose interest in alcohol.

Perhaps I have triggered an unnecessary discussion by labeling this as a AA Alternative.
She said they never encourage an addict/alcoholic to use any mild altering substance, ever. Abstinance is encouraged but not required for naltrexone to be effective. So yes, TSM is different then the common approach.

If you give me Naltrexone/Antabuse I'll just use cocaine/xanax/Molly. From my experience, that is true for most of the addicts/alcoholics I know.
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Old 7 January 2018, 12:29
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That's interesting Gaviin, why do you say it wouldn't work when it actually requires that you drink for it to work?
For me, I had no desire to stop drinking for many years, because being a hard-drinking man was a huge part of who I was and how I saw myself. Most of the folks I spent time with were the same.

By the time I faced reality, and knew I was an alcoholic, and that my drinking was killing me, I no longer really cared. My standard thought was “no one likes a quitter.” I was fine with where things were. I had become an empty shell. My soul was dead.
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Old 7 January 2018, 17:08
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For me, I had no desire to stop drinking for many years, because being a hard-drinking man was a huge part of who I was and how I saw myself. Most of the folks I spent time with were the same.

By the time I faced reality, and knew I was an alcoholic, and that my drinking was killing me, I no longer really cared. My standard thought was “no one likes a quitter.” I was fine with where things were. I had become an empty shell. My soul was dead.
Gotcha...thanks for the honesty.
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Old 7 January 2018, 17:12
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She said they never encourage an addict/alcoholic to use any mild altering substance, ever. Abstinance is encouraged but not required for naltrexone to be effective. So yes, TSM is different then the common approach.

If you give me Naltrexone/Antabuse I'll just use cocaine/xanax/Molly. From my experience, that is true for most of the addicts/alcoholics I know.
Gotcha...so really, it comes down to the individual...like anything else. I am intrigued by the people I have interacted with about the mechanism by which Naltrexone gradually kills the desire for alcohol..it is working for them and they are not only amazed but excited about life. It's not immediate...in many cases it takes months, but from their reports...it works. That's something for sure.
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Old 7 January 2018, 22:36
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I thought this was a good write up on the topic:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/2/16181734/12-steps-aa-na-studies
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Old 7 January 2018, 23:30
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I thought this was a good write up on the topic:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-aa-na-studies
I admire your interest in this topic and desire to explore the options people have in addressing their issues with alcohol/addiction.

I've been a member of AA for several years now and credit the program with saving my life. Two of my very close friends have been on this journey with me since day 1. One is a member of NA and the other goes to weekly meetings with an addiction specialist. Both of them were on Vivotrol/Naltrexone when we first got out of rehab and say that it absolutely helped them. One is a pharmacist and the other an anesthesiologist, they handle their drug of choice on a daily basis.

The NA guy thinks AA is BS since we distinguish alcohol from other drugs while the third friend thinks were both crazy for going to AA/NA meetings.

All three of us were absolute maniacs that nearly destroyed our lives. That we have in common. Where we differ is how we stay sober.

Id be more then happy to answer any questions you may have abt my experience trying to get and stay sober.

Last edited by NYwood914; 7 January 2018 at 23:35.
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Old 7 January 2018, 23:59
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Where we differ is how we stay sober.
There it is right there.

As I've written here before, just about every recovering alcoholic/addict tried to get clean unsuccessfully before finally getting sober. We all have whatever it is we do to stay sober, and there is a different path for each of us.

I attended AA for a few months at first, but then deployed and didn't go back to AA when I got back.

In truth, I never spoke to or heard anyone that had a story I could really relate to, and I stayed sober through willpower, and by living by a simple idea, that, no matter what else, I am sober, and I will stay sober. AA is group support, and I got clean and stayed clean alone. I did not discuss my alcoholism with hardly anyone, nor did I discuss how I stayed sober.

A few months ago I was perusing Powell's Books in Portland (greatest book store ever, if you are into paper and ink). I went to the addiction and recovery section (don't know why, I don't ever do that) and saw a book which caught my eye. I bought it and read it, several times. The author could not be any more different than me, and yet the words she used to describe her relationship to alcohol...well, I was reading my exact feelings, written by another.

So...there's two of us. Unfortunately, the author died of lung cancer in 2002, so, I'm still sober and solo.

The book is Drinking: A Love Story, by Caroline Knapp. That book means a lot to me, and may not mean much to anyone else...a different path for each of us.
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Old 8 January 2018, 00:13
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I had no desire to stop drinking for many years, because being a hard-drinking man was a huge part of who I was and how I saw myself. Most of the folks I spent time with were the same.
That is a much bigger part of the equation, at least with the folks I am familiar with, than most people realize.

Great thread. Thanks Gavin and NY.
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Old 8 January 2018, 00:15
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Great thread. Thanks Gavin and NY.
And thanks to P36, for getting us writing about this. It's important stuff.
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Old 8 January 2018, 00:17
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And thanks to P36, for getting us writing about this. It's important stuff.
Beat me to the draw, couldn't edit fast enough. Thanks P36.
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Old 8 January 2018, 00:47
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The author could not be any more different than me, and yet the words she used to describe her relationship to alcohol...well, I was reading my exact feelings, written by another.

So...there's two of us. Unfortunately, the author died of lung cancer in 2002, so, I'm still sober and solo.

The book is Drinking: A Love Story, by Caroline Knapp. That book means a lot to me, and may not mean much to anyone else...a different path for each of us.
Thank you for sharing that book with us.

I go to AA meetings largely for the same reason that book appeals to you. Almost every day, I'm around people speaking my language and telling my story. It took some time to find the right group but eventually I did.

If we keep this thread going long enough, I'm sure there will be someone on here who can evoke the same feelings you had when reading the book. Then, you will no longer fly solo
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Old 8 January 2018, 00:50
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Great thread. Thanks Gavin and NY.
Happy to try and add some value here! Thanks to P36 for getting the ball rolling.
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