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  #1  
Old 15 August 2007, 03:51
Drew Drew is offline
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Norwich MDY

For the three-letter agency/Intelligence community types,

I've been doing some research into Masters options lately and become interested in Norwich University's online Master of Arts in Diplomacy. Specifically the Terrorism or International Conflict Management concentrations. Sounds too good to be true. Anyone have any experience with this program? Know its reputation?
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  #2  
Old 15 August 2007, 08:08
CombatWombat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus Drew
For the three-letter agency/Intelligence community types,

I've been doing some research into Masters options lately and become interested in Norwich University's online Master of Arts in Diplomacy. Specifically the Terrorism or International Conflict Management concentrations. Sounds too good to be true. Anyone have any experience with this program? Know its reputation?
I've done some coursework from this program (ad hoc through an instructor I know) and have a couple friends who have graduated it. Good material and interesting, but of perhaps limited utility for a job seeker. It is not a particularly specialized degree and, in my opinion, most of the students are already established professionals in the security field (military or similar) looking to knock out a MA to enhance their careers. I don't think its a good program for someone looking to break into the field.

Now, with that out of the way, the courses are well taught and the students tend to be motivated, intelligent contributors. Norwich has a good reputation, but not a great one in the academic world. This isn't due to any issues on Norwich's end (again, my opinion) but that most academics immediately peg Norwich as a military academy first, everything else second.

I would say that its a good option for an established person to get a decent degree from an institution of some renown while maintaining his current career path. You probably won't be subject to the sniggering of edu-snobs like a U of Phoenix grad would. However, I don't think it's a good option for someone early in their career. There are occasional networking opportunities, and you might get lucky in your cohort makeup, but a resident program, or one through a more connected institution would probably be a better bet for getting hooked up with a follow on job.

I looked at this program when lining up for my own masters, but ended up going to an online/resident Georgetown program instead for many of the above reasons.

Good luck. Let me know if you need more info. Maybe I can connect you up with an instructor or former student.
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Old 15 August 2007, 09:15
Drew Drew is offline
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Thanks for the info Wombat. You hit the nail on the head with the "break-in to the field vs. enhance career" contrast. Maybe I should take my question in a different direction... What are some recommended programs for someone like me considering the leap from .mil to .gov?

Facts:
-I am 30 years old
-Seven years in the Army (Infantry enlisted/Medical Service officer)
-Currently deployed
-Wife wants kids soon
-Wife is also AD Army until 2010
-Prefer to begin a program sooner rather than later

Assumptions:
-Pin on CPT 1 SEP 07... finally
-Deployed probably until mid-2008
-ETS NLT the end of 2008

Constraints:
-Deployment
-Resident programs limited to online/near Fort Stewart (current duty station) or reasonable distance from a post wife can PCS to

I will check out Georgetown's programs. I think I looked at an International Affairs type program there, but I don't know if it is for someone of my modest undergraduate pedigree.
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Old 15 August 2007, 09:33
RAT RAT is offline
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Do you want to get on with a 3 Letter company?

If I was you and you are going to go through all that work, go get your MBA... Something that can be useful both in gov work and on the out side.

Need money followers. IMHO there are way too many people now getting in the game with Terrorism or International Conflict Management degree...

What does it really tell me that I (as a boss) don't already know. Just ask you self as a Capt 10yrs in is some new Lt or Sgt with a masters going to know more about your programs than you do right now.

Look on how you can benefit the program you are looking to go to.

Just my .002

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  #5  
Old 15 August 2007, 11:19
CombatWombat
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Quote:
What are some recommended programs for someone like me considering the leap from .mil to .gov?

Facts:
-I am 30 years old
-Seven years in the Army (Infantry enlisted/Medical Service officer)
Huh. I'm a 30 YO CPT who was Medic enlisted/Infantry officer. I think you got the better end of the deal. I spent too much time behind a desk on either end of my career. Stupid sick call.

Quote:
Assumptions:
-Pin on CPT 1 SEP 07... finally
-Deployed probably until mid-2008
-ETS NLT the end of 2008

Constraints:
-Deployment
-Resident programs limited to online/near Fort Stewart (current duty station) or reasonable distance from a post wife can PCS to
What branch is your wife? Any chance of her landing a gig in the DC/NOVA area? Lots of schools there. Short of that, UW near Lewis or maybe an ROTC slot at a decent University spring to mind. Her AD commitment to 2010 may be your largest constraint. Nice MDMP-fu there, BTW.

Quote:
I will check out Georgetown's programs. I think I looked at an International Affairs type program there, but I don't know if it is for someone of my modest undergraduate pedigree.
First off, my G-town program is quite specialized. I am working on a bioterrorism and emerging diseases masters with an eye towards either a follow on DPH or a gov/contractor gig in the threat reduction/consequence management arena. I'm unsure if Georgetown has online options for other programs. Even my degree is an online certificate and requires 18 on campus credits to get the MS. Granted, that's due to the need for lab based courses, but I don't think any of the other departments do online only masters.

Second, don't let your undergrad background get in your way. I had a horrendous GPA, but that was years ago and my work experience and test scores went a long way at getting a tryout 'provisional' admission. Once in, I was able to get the grades I always could have if I hadn't viewed college as a necessary gate to getting a commission and an overall impediment to drinking and playing rugby. Study for and ace the GRE/GMAT/Whatever and start writing an admissions essay showing how time and experience have made you into a valuable asset for your target university.

Rat was dead on with his comments. As officers, we learn to be generalists since that's our role in the big green machine. That approach doesn't seem to work on the outside. Employers, government or otherwise, are looking for what you can bring to the table that they don't already have. A generalized degree without very specialized work experience could be a tough sell.

If you have the brainpan, and I'd bet you do, I would look to acquire a more technical degree that will really give you some skills you can leverage into a new gig. Rat's comment about money followers was right on. I've made the final cut on a couple three letter gigs and everybody in that last room was either a fluent foreign language speaker, a CPA or equivalent, or a bio/chem/nuke nerd in addition to being ex-mil, or LEO, or some other qualifier. BTW, you might be surprised at the pay cut you might have to take if you go FBI/CIA/Whatever. Maybe it was just me, but after looking at my probable compensation over time, it didn't really measure up to either staying in the military (retirement) or going private sector (overall compensation). That was enough to get me to drop out of the programs (along with some other factors, but that's another story). I think it's best for all involved that I didn't take those jobs as someone who was as easily dissuaded as I was probably wasn't the right man for the job in the first place, but I digress.

So, if you're still reading this, I'd suggest you look at what kind of work you want to do in the future and what your current skills or inclinations are. I think the MBA or Finance route is an excellent path if it appeals to you and it yields both gov options as well as private sector opportunities. As an MSO, you might think about the bioterror/public health field. Definite growth industry there. Even if you don't think someone is thinking about how to spring smallpox on NYC, bird flu and west nile ain't going anywhere either and the skill set to fight one is very interchangeable with the other. If you've got an ear for languages, picking up one or two and getting a linguistics degree can be a lucrative field and is in demand, if you choose the right tongues.

Keep your head down over there, amigo.
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Old 15 August 2007, 12:50
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Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAT
If I was you and you are going to go through all that work, go get your MBA... Something that can be useful both in gov work and on the out side.
Concur 1000%. I just finished the SSP MA at Georgetown. It was a waste of time and money. Will be working on my MBA shortly.

If you are hellbent on the security studies tip: http://www.kcl.ac.uk/schools/sspp/ws/ps/tpg/wimw
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  #7  
Old 15 August 2007, 16:19
Evil Snowman Evil Snowman is offline
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[QUOTE=Jimbo]Concur 1000%. I just finished the SSP MA at Georgetown. It was a waste of time and money. Will be working on my MBA shortly.

I too concure ... MBA opens many doors, both private and public! In the end, it's "show me the money!" with almost everything.

I'm in my second year at U of MD. I might as well get something more than just "chair sores" on my ass during my desk jockey time at HQ. I do most of my work while at my day job and my bosses think I'm awesome ... staying late, cracking the books, ect ... gotta love it!
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  #8  
Old 17 August 2007, 05:53
Drew Drew is offline
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Thanks for the input everyone. Interesting how this taking shape. I had initially planned on doing an MBA, but felt it was too generalist. I thought that something like the Diplomacy MA with International Terrorism concentration would better prepare me for a counterterrorism job.

I have done some homework on the CIA and FBI websites and the positions I looked at typically mentioned both International Relations and Business degrees as desirable. I guess where I'm getting tripped up is an MBA focus on accounting, supply and demand, marketing, first in-first out logistics, etc. versus an International Relations focus on "this is what Iran/North Korea/Hizbollah/AQ/etc. is doing" and "U.S. foreign policy is...."

Jimbo, I checked out the King's College programme after reading your "War nerds get your eLearn on" thread. I may have some trouble with that one though, they don't teach the King's English in the Georgia public school system.

Wombat, you definitely took the better route. As an infantry officer, you have a cool additional skill set from your enlisted experience. As medical service officer, I have an additional skill set that keeps me from working in my branch. That's why right now I'm running convoy security for logistics patrols instead of providing Level II care to a multinational force in an austere environment.
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Old 19 August 2007, 00:15
Albert Albert is offline
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Masters

I'm glad this thread was started, as I've been looking into various D.C. area schools including Georgetown. I had been planning on a security studies type of program, but after looking around, I'm not so sure it's the right move cost/benefit wise.
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Old 16 May 2009, 20:05
Drew Drew is offline
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UPDATE:

Beginning MBA at Georgia Tech (#22 in the nation according to USN&WR - woot!) 10 AUG 09
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  #11  
Old 27 June 2016, 11:57
Drew Drew is offline
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Update #2

Graduated with my MBA in 2011. Did healthcare supply chain for four years (chased the $), got bored and now I'm 2/3 of the way through GMU's Master of Science in Biodefense program with concentration in Technology and WMD. It's a great program, but the C-WMD job market is proving tough to crack after several years out of the game. I may have to stick to healthcare/public health or something in international development.

I wish CombatWombat was still around on the board. I'd be interested to hear where he ended up after Georgetown.
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  #12  
Old 28 June 2016, 23:42
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I have an MDY from Norwich. It's a great program but I'd encourage anyone to look at all options before settling on the MDY. It might be the best program for your needs and desires but it might not. I'd be happy to talk to anyone at length about my thoughts on the program. PM me if interested.

Norwich Forever
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Old 29 June 2016, 01:20
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I graduated from Norwich's MAH this past Friday. Great program. Positives and negatives like everything, but overall a worthwhile course of study. I didn't meet anyone at residency week, from any of their programs, that regretted their time there.

And they did a good job of making us feel part of the school, so I'm waiting to see how long until the "help us financially" letters start coming in the mail.

Norwich Forever
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Old 29 June 2016, 08:58
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^Outstanding job!
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  #15  
Old 29 June 2016, 12:59
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
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Congratulations and well done!
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Old 29 June 2016, 14:37
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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I think the best people finders are alumni offices.

Congrats 0699!
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Old 29 June 2016, 20:20
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Congratulations 0699. Good job!
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Old 29 June 2016, 20:36
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Thanks gents.
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Old 30 June 2016, 23:56
Chemical Cookie Chemical Cookie is offline
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Originally Posted by 0699 View Post
I graduated from Norwich's MAH this past Friday. Great program. Positives and negatives like everything, but overall a worthwhile course of study. I didn't meet anyone at residency week, from any of their programs, that regretted their time there.

And they did a good job of making us feel part of the school, so I'm waiting to see how long until the "help us financially" letters start coming in the mail.

Norwich Forever
We must have just crossed paths. I was in Northfield this past week as well.

Residency week was pretty good for the most part. I would have preferred more networking time with my peers and a little more depth to the talks.

I graduated with my MDY and while the critical knowledge and analysis aspect was great, I too was having a hard time gaining traction with people who both know of Norwich (oldest private military college in the world) and understand the usefulness of the degree. My concentration was International Trade and Commerce. I'd certainly recommend the program if you were looking at State or possibly an Agency position. Truth is, Norwich is a very respect institution within the public sector, but without the widespread name recognition. Once you find those who know of the school, then you are good.

Soooo, I did what a large percentage of folks in this thread have suggested. I applied to a respected MBA program and as a result was accepted into Cornell's EMBA class of 2018. Should be a great challenge for sure.

By the way, I believe in paying it forward. If any Veteran would like help on the MBA piece, feel free to message me. I'll help any way that I can.

Norwich Forever
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Old 1 July 2016, 15:48
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We must have just crossed paths. I was in Northfield this past week as well.

...

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Damn. Wish I'd known...
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