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  #341  
Old 15 June 2016, 11:18
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Originally Posted by Blackjack78 View Post
IMHO these discussions are great. They stimulate thought however; while nothing said here is protected I think it's in bad taste on a board like this that we should be giving anybody some game plans. YMMV.
Duly noted. Admin, please delete my post.
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  #342  
Old 15 June 2016, 11:29
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Noted as well.

Please delete my post also
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  #343  
Old 15 June 2016, 11:57
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Originally Posted by litematt View Post
I thought it was pretty classless for Chuck Todd and Meet the Press ......
What a fucking tool. I want to throat punch him through the TV every time I see him.
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  #344  
Old 15 June 2016, 11:59
kosty kosty is offline
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
Think about the effect it would have on most of America psychologically and economically if those small places in middle America start getting hit. Active shooters, VBIEDs, whatever. Suddenly it's no longer confined to NYC, LA, DC, Orlando etc. Now those people have to fear just going to Wal-Mart or the nearest small shopping mall. All of a sudden you are watching some small town in Nebraska or Oklahoma on the news and you start thinking "holy shit, that could be here next time!". Then you would see the 90% of America that actually drives the economy slam on the brakes.

That is when it starts getting real to them.
I remember the talk in small town America when the DC "sniper" and the smiley face bomber were active. "We" realized that it could easily come to our doorstep. These were both "home grown" (although arguably, neither were Islamic acts of terror), and they targeted random people.
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  #345  
Old 15 June 2016, 12:11
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The NYT has outdone itself:
http://nytimes.com/2016/06/15/opinio...americans.html
Quote:
...
While the precise motivation for the rampage remains unclear, it is evident that Mr. Mateen was driven by hatred toward gays and lesbians. Hate crimes don’t happen in a vacuum. They occur where bigotry is allowed to fester, where minorities are vilified and where people are scapegoated for political gain. Tragically, this is the state of American politics, driven too often by Republican politicians who see prejudice as something to exploit, not extinguish.
...
It’s hard to say how many politicians take these positions as a matter of principle and how many do so because it has proved to be an effective way in the past to raise money and turn out the vote. As the funerals are held for those who perished on Sunday, lawmakers who have actively championed discriminatory laws and policies, and those who have quietly enabled them with votes, should force themselves to read the obituaries and look at the photos. The 49 people killed in Orlando were victims of a terrorist attack. But they also need to be remembered as casualties of a society where hate has deep roots
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  #346  
Old 15 June 2016, 12:18
Joe33 Joe33 is offline
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Originally Posted by 10thvet View Post
Duly noted. Admin, please delete my post.
Mine as well if the mods so dictate.
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  #347  
Old 15 June 2016, 12:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack78 View Post
IMHO these discussions are great. They stimulate thought however; while nothing said here is protected I think it's in bad taste on a board like this that we should be giving anybody some game plans. YMMV.


Yes, yes. Wise observation. Let us experienced ones whom are somewhat proficient in warfare and mayhem not do the thinking for the bad guys.
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  #348  
Old 15 June 2016, 13:00
Steve83 Steve83 is offline
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Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
Seriously?

Anything to avoid the elephant the room.
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  #349  
Old 15 June 2016, 13:57
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
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Speaking to SB's post and E5M's post, above, Columbus, OH had just such an attack last February. A man (first name Mohammed) entered a restaurant and slashed at the patrons with a machete before being driven off by a baseball bat. Several seriously wounded. Local PD had him in their sights within minutes (in a fluke), and he opted for death by cop. Two elements are relevant here: first, there were apparently other instances of violence by the guy earlier in the evening (attempted hit-and-run, I gather) but he had crossed jurisdictions so the pattern wasn't clear until later what he had done. Second, the local paper tried mightily to get the story to go away because the local politicians didn't want to engage this issue, and Columbus has a huge immigrant population (Somalis all operated the airport security before 9/11). So this lone wolf attack of senseless violence that freaked everyone out in the days after it happened soon quietly faded away as an issue of concern. The other 90% will have to wake up, but the powers that be in the provicial areas are sometimes interested in not having them wake up lest there be consequences.

Last edited by Armitage12; 15 June 2016 at 14:03. Reason: Additional thought.
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  #350  
Old 15 June 2016, 14:43
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
Not necessarily. At least in my humble opinion.

The issue is that (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) for most Americans, they don't live in DC, or NYC, or LA etc. Those places are far away. Something they see on TV. Maybe visit once in their lives. So, something like this happens and the attention span is limited to a few days. Maybe a week. Those things are on TV. Almost not real. Sad to see on TV but in their minds it's "something that could/would never happen here."

I know, because that place is where I grew up. Places where going on a shopping trip means driving 30 min to Wal-Mart because that's about all there is.

Think about the effect it would have on most of America psychologically and economically if those small places in middle America start getting hit. Active shooters, VBIEDs, whatever. Suddenly it's no longer confined to NYC, LA, DC, Orlando etc. Now those people have to fear just going to Wal-Mart or the nearest small shopping mall. All of a sudden you are watching some small town in Nebraska or Oklahoma on the news and you start thinking "holy shit, that could be here next time!". Then you would see the 90% of America that actually drives the economy slam on the brakes.

That is when it starts getting real to them. Many of us on this board have deployed or worked overseas and have seen it first hand, so it is very real for us no matter where we are. But we forget that most Americans have never really had to fear something like this. It's all just something on TV in another reality.

Anyway, just my opinion. On one hand I hope it never happens. On the other, I dont think what is happening now will ever stop until that other 90% of the US wakes up and figures out that they have some skin in this game too.
Even if Islamic terrorist were to take it to the level you described it would not be enough to get both the US population and politicians to conduct war on the scale necessary to win a war against Islam.

As long as the US continues to spend money and lives putting up security, police, laws, rules, whack-a-mole internationally and domestically we are playing directly into their strategy.

"However, the United States has not adequately defined the nature of its adversaries, nor its overall strategic objectives in the war on terror. Al Qaeda, on the other hand, has clearly stated its intent to bleed the U.S. economy as a means of weakening the American public’s support for the war."
--https://www.hsaj.org/articles/685

You can insert Islam in for Al Qaeda on the above quote.

US politicians (every damn one of them) have no interest in winning this war. They now use it to further their own political agendas domestically and line their pockets.

Until we are prepared to directly and publicly target political and religious leaders in the middle east, flatten entire cities, and create large radioactive areas we will continue to win all the battles and lose the war.
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  #351  
Old 15 June 2016, 15:01
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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I'd hate to lose some of the very good discussion that has and will happen on the topic. Is there a password-protected area closed to the public that non-BTDT can follow such a discussion?
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  #352  
Old 15 June 2016, 15:18
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Maybe I'm off my meds but, I don't see why this is such a big deal.

One guy goes off on a murderous tangent with two guns in a club packed with helpless people and manages to leave about 50 dead and 50 wounded in his wake. Yes, tragic and reprehensible but not the worst thing to happen in a day.

Did we ban airplanes after a few lunatics purposely crashed them into the ground? Killing hundreds. No. (Excluding 9/11/01 we went to war over that and that has cost more than blood and money. It has cost our willingness to deal with the issues at hand.)

Did we close down any loopholes in driver responsibility after any bus driver falls asleep and causes multiple fatalities on the highway? Hundreds die yearly. No.

Have we solved any gun related problems plaguing large metro areas by banning guns altogether in places like Chicago, LA, and NY/NJ? Nope. More people are shot and killed on a daily, weekly basis across a wide area and there is nothing the police and city government can do to stop it.

About 100 (on average) people died yesterday, today and again tomorrow on the roads of America in cars. Everyday this summer an average of 10 teenagers will die texting while driving or kill someone else doing the same....

And 'we' our media will spend endless amounts of time, money and political will talking about this one act of cowardice and murder, in one building, in one city, on one night, that affected less than a thousand people with direct knowledge or connection to the crime.

We are truly f'd if we can't find a simple solution to a problem that doesn't even scratch the surface of what's important to our society as a whole.

Today 325,000,000(+\-) Americans and non-documented immigrants woke up and went to school, work, or other and nothing happened!

On that note nearly 380,000,000 privately owned guns in America didn't kill anyone or fire a shot in anger!

Yeah, wake up America it's a beautiful day to be alive. Take care of it!

Last edited by Old Dog New Trick; 15 June 2016 at 15:26.
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  #353  
Old 15 June 2016, 15:32
gerryeric gerryeric is offline
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Swimming pools are responsible for 100s (if not 1000s) of deaths a year. The big push is education not eradication.
Do we as Americans really need swimming pools?
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  #354  
Old 15 June 2016, 15:57
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Yeah, that's an interesting statistic. If you really want to protect the well being of your children, it's not the homes of gun owners you have to worry about them visiting, it's the homes that have swimming pools.

When a cousin and her husband hosted parties at their pool, usually for a birthday or something, they always hired a professional lifeguard to watch over things.
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  #355  
Old 15 June 2016, 16:12
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If we cared about protecting life we would ban all kinds of things, like swimming pools, or alcohol, which kills 88,000 people every year in the US alone. Of course we tried that before and it didn't work, but the point stands: if it was about saving lives there's plenty of things to do to start saving them: ban pools, ban alcohol, ban any car that can travel faster than 40 mph. Hell those three things would save what? 200,000 lives every year in the US? We lost 400,000 in WWII over 4 years. We could save that many in 2 by banning things!

Ugh.

I have a lot of lefty city folk friends and the comments about this event are just astoundingly stupid - and it's not really their fault because the media outright lies about dumb shit to fill their agenda. I've seen how people shouldn't be able to buy military weapons - and they believe anyone can. I've seen people say we shouldn't be able to buy automatic weapons - because they believe the shooter had one since he had an AR.

But the most troubling thing I've seen is how this is the fault of the NRA and America's Right Wing fascination with guns. That if the NRA didn't exist this event wouldn't have happened. That's why I said above that any attack involving guns on US personnel won't be seen as terrorism, but America's fault and the fault of the right-wing.

It's just sad how ignorant people will williingly be.
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  #356  
Old 15 June 2016, 16:20
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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I agree with you KidA.

Willful ignorance is winning.

By that, I mean that I realize that I do not know many things. So, I try to educate myself. Even then, sometimes, I am not 100% sure of the answer.

Way too many people KNOW what they believe in, and any contrarians are fools, Left or Right.
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  #357  
Old 15 June 2016, 16:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidA View Post
It's just sad how ignorant people will williingly be.
It used be said that math is hard. It really isn't if the formula is known.

What is seemingly becoming impossible to learn is critical thinking.

Knowledge is being replaced by a 30-second sound-bite given to a large audience and recycled until it becomes truth.


P.S. As far the NRA goes, they've lost their core values and purpose a long time ago. Maybe it would be best if they just went away. Take some of if not all the liberal talking heads sound-bites with them. That'll really mess with their agenda: they will lose the focal point of their arguments.
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  #358  
Old 15 June 2016, 18:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidA View Post
If we cared about protecting life we would ban all kinds of things, like swimming pools, or alcohol, which kills 88,000 people every year in the US alone. Of course we tried that before and it didn't work, but the point stands: if it was about saving lives there's plenty of things to do to start saving them: ban pools, ban alcohol, ban any car that can travel faster than 40 mph. Hell those three things would save what? 200,000 lives every year in the US? We lost 400,000 in WWII over 4 years. We could save that many in 2 by banning things!

Ugh.

I have a lot of lefty city folk friends and the comments about this event are just astoundingly stupid - and it's not really their fault because the media outright lies about dumb shit to fill their agenda. I've seen how people shouldn't be able to buy military weapons - and they believe anyone can. I've seen people say we shouldn't be able to buy automatic weapons - because they believe the shooter had one since he had an AR.

But the most troubling thing I've seen is how this is the fault of the NRA and America's Right Wing fascination with guns. That if the NRA didn't exist this event wouldn't have happened. That's why I said above that any attack involving guns on US personnel won't be seen as terrorism, but America's fault and the fault of the right-wing.

It's just sad how ignorant people will williingly<sic> be.
Quoted this in full because if you exchange the terms and statistics to suit Australia, this is us down to a "T"!

Spot On KidA.
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  #359  
Old 16 June 2016, 01:26
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Geeze guys, I didn't mean to kill your thread. Just putting a little perspective in it. The worst terrorist event in 'Merica since 9/11 turns out to be a cocksucker himself with feelings of guilt and seeks redemption by shooting up a gay bar full of homos and lesbians. I mean how f'd up is that! It almost boarders on "domestic violence" gone wild!

He sought to cover up his religious and moral wrongdoings and ended up circling the wagons around gayness; even by a few of his religious fanatics in Islam. Hypocrisy has no bounds if it serves the political flavor of the day. Have they raised the rainbow flag over Medina yet? Carried out a gay unity parade between there and Mecca? I'm waiting...

We know that Bill and Hilary are separately and secretly sleeping under rainbow blankets. Whether that is with a same sex partner or not, or some young intern remains to be known. Waiting on the Russian email dump in the Enquirer.

This thing is terrible but a non-starter when it comes to taking my guns. If Sandy Hook Elementary couldn't get it done "for the children" this won't have chance to sway anyone but, Barney Frank and 'Denny' Hastert.
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  #360  
Old 16 June 2016, 01:44
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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I simply LOVE it when the shitlibs begin to eat themselves.


Black Lives Matter Activist Hijacks Orlando Shooting Vigil, Complains About White Attendees
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