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  #61  
Old 19 May 2018, 00:21
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is online now
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That's sophistry though. An attempt to claim that because no one can define specifically what is "art", therefore everything is 'art', so long as someone somewhere just says that it is. That is not a valid argument. My assertion is that this is NOT art, it is propaganda. Which is not art.

Everything is not art. We are surrounded by ugliness brought about by our decay in morality and values that have brought us to the point that some of the smartest people acquiesce and give up even the most rudimentary of common sense issues. We have convinced ourselves that a grown man painting bullshit on a white canvas is "art". That some insane chick framing her used maxi pad satined with her period blood is 'art'. That a crucifix covered in shit is "art". Why? "Oh because someone said it is art" or "because it has a meaning to the person that created it". That's nonsense and it's straight cowardice. A CHILD could see through that line of rubbish (and they often do). The only places these things have become 'art' is Western Civilization --- a civilization on brink of utter and complete ruin. One which continues to astound its few normal and rational members left by new and even more shocking depths of depravity and degeneracy seemingly occuring with almost no resistance to it. At the beginning of the video the presenter poses a question ----- if you asked anyone from the 1750s to the 1930s "What is the goal of [the arts]?" you would be assailed nearly universally with the answers "Beauty. Inspiration. Transcendence. Hope. Love. grace. etc etc". All of these ideals to which they speak were crafted and discussed since Ancient Greece. Yet NOW, in the last 60 years (what a coincidence ) we suddenly have this new definition of 'art'? One that allows the most disgusting and depraved acts and 'exhibits' to exist nearly with no one able to stop it? That's absolute garbage. It's nothing but a pack of lies. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. "Art" is whatever the fuck you want it to be.

Western Civilization is losing it's soul because of sophistry like this. We can dither and argue back and forth until the Universe reaches it's entropy-death 5 times over about what EXACTLY is 'art' and we'll still never come to a consensus. However, by the standards of almost every damn civilization that makes up what is known as Western Civilization (and I'd be willing to bet the Far Eastern ones would have some similar things to say as well) ---- this "This is America" video is NOT art. It's more closely resembling propaganda. And NO, you can't just conjure some blanket excuse "well, propaganda is a type of art". That doesn't fly. It's poisonous propaganda that is designed to break apart and destroy our country. And one that's working. All because people have lost sight of what we are. What our values are. That which is ugly is 'good'. That which is beauty 'has no purpose'. "Art" has been purposefully destroyed and recreated as a vehicle in which to kill us. And it's working. Because people believe in this amorphous "do as thou whilst" Aliester Crowley interpretation of our most valuable cultural institutions. And everyone is so goddamn mesmerized by the Deadlights that no one is fighting back. On this simple damn subject that would be so easy for our ancestors to refute and drive out of our society.

Again:



Congressional Record–Appendix, pp. A34-A35

January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals
EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
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  #62  
Old 19 May 2018, 00:22
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He's got SOCNET discussing him and the Venn diagram of the typical Socnet user and Childish Gambino looks like this O O.
Yep...and there's no such thing as bad publicity for celebrities.
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  #63  
Old 19 May 2018, 00:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
That's sophistry though. An attempt to claim that because no one can define specifically what is "art", therefore everything is 'art', so long as someone somewhere just says that it is. That is not a valid argument. My assertion is that this is NOT art, it is propaganda. Which is not art.

Everything is not art. We are surrounded by ugliness brought about by our decay in morality and values that have brought us to the point that some of the smartest people acquiesce and give up even the most rudimentary of common sense issues. We have convinced ourselves that a grown man painting bullshit on a white canvas is "art". That some insane chick framing her used maxi pad satined with her period blood is 'art'. That a crucifix covered in shit is "art". Why? "Oh because someone said it is art" or "because it has a meaning to the person that created it". That's nonsense and it's straight cowardice.
If someone wants to call it art who cares? If no one else thinks it is art then still. Who cares? If one other person thinks it has value and pays for it, then still....who cares?

Are you the one who says what is or is not art? That anything related to religion cannot be mocked or cannot be used in "art" ? Or that only approved things can be art and non-approved things can't be art?

If you want to call your ramblings on SOCNET "art" who is anyone else to say no they aren't?

These people doing these outlandish things are doing it for a reason - it's not so much they want their "art" to be accepted as "art" as they are provoking discussion - and quite adept at it, too, given we are discussing it here.

Don't like what someone calls "art"? Don't pay for it.
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  #64  
Old 19 May 2018, 08:19
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Well, if you don't think it's art, then you are nothing but a Nazi...
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  #65  
Old 19 May 2018, 09:24
osubuckeye762 osubuckeye762 is offline
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For the last two days I have trying to think how to respond to the aforementioned video up for discussion.

I did watch most of the video, and to be honest I envisioned it to me more shocking along with a more prevalent viewing of ANTIFA, BLM, and racial ideologies.

I will agree that it is a form of art but not a form I would invest time/effort or money to support. I do not agree with the message that it is sending or is trying to imply.

Now the artist PR person and director has done a great job with the video in regards to the demographic that they are trying to reach and influence. This artist and the director knows who and what demographic listens and buys this genre of music so they pattern the songs and videos toward that demographic.

I never realized it to my girlfriend pointed it but look at all the commercials that have backgrounds songs from the 80's and 90s. The music and commercials are engineered around who will be buying their product.

I guess I am mellowing with age, or I am might (might) be maturing. Could this artist have used his influence to make a video to address the sociological factors that is truly affecting that demographic. OF course he could have, but that wouldn't sell albums or make him money.

I am a big fan of classical music especially the Baroque period but many people do not consider that art.

Do i believe that over the last few decades society has been pushing the boundaries of what is considered art. Most definitely. Does this video fall it into that purview. Definitely.

Unfortunately this individuals art, and the people that it influences keeps me busy at night, so my work day flies by.
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  #66  
Old 19 May 2018, 09:47
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it-sucks,moving-on
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  #67  
Old 19 May 2018, 12:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNI07egoefc

I think Robert Florczak does a pretty good job of explaining what this version of "art" is all about.
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  #68  
Old 19 May 2018, 14:29
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Is it art: NIN - Closer.
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  #69  
Old 19 May 2018, 15:05
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is online now
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Words are important. Words convey meaning in your mind. In our minds. Which is why we have so many different words to describe very similar things. Every attorney knows this, not just in the legal sense, but in the terms of how you emotionally connect to your jury. Conveying information without speaking. Attaching the word "art" to the video in OP gives it more emotional legitimacy and protections than if you simply called it what it really is ---- propaganda. Propaganda designed to perpetuate and preserve the rot of this country. Once you separate the two and define it as a different animal, immediately you gain the upper hand in the psychological war on our collective psyche.

I've already explained at length why what is considered "art" is important to our society. But the base of this is recognizing that the left uses words and definitions to control your thoughts and behavior. Even if you don't realize it. And the left repeating "this is art!!" repeatedly for the last 60 years doesn't make it so. But a lot of people seem to think so. Again: this is not art. No, I cannot define the exact atomic dividing line between 'art' and 'propaganda', but I can say without a doubt that this video is NOT it. You HAVE to change the way you think because the modern ways of thinking are the cages that have been around our minds and prevent us from winning this war for our civilization.
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  #70  
Old 19 May 2018, 15:16
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ET1/ss nuke View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNI07egoefc

I think Robert Florczak does a pretty good job of explaining what this version of "art" is all about.
I remember watching this a while back and finding it very enlightening as well. The money shot: both videos identify this mentality coming from the beginning of the 20th century (give or take). Right around the same time as many other subversive schools of thought and mentalities. I do not find that to be a coincidence.
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  #71  
Old 19 May 2018, 15:26
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Again: this is not art. No, I cannot define the exact atomic dividing line between 'art' and 'propaganda', but I can say without a doubt that this video is NOT it. You HAVE to change the way you think because the modern ways of thinking are the cages that have been around our minds and prevent us from winning this war for our civilization.
I don't know man, seems to me you've got a cage around your mind. This video will be forgotten in a week. Maybe a month. But it will be forgotten.

Plus you keep saying this video is propaganda - for what? For what side? Because I've seen other people say it is a strong condemnation against how black people seemingly do nothing for themselves but want to get paid in gold and shoot each other and it's a wake up call for them, as a people, to stop fucking up and being so petty. Is it art if that was its message?

Plus who has called this Art other than people on SOCNET? I haven't seen anyone say it is art other than the OP.

I've seen people say it is thought provoking and clearly it is because we are still talking about it. And there are people saying it's condemnation against whitey and it's condemnation against blackie.

Seems to me the more we discuss it the more genius it might be - it shows how people with preconceived notions approach stuff. People preconceived to think black songwriters are going to make videos condemning whitey get all mad about it. People preconceived to think uppity black "artists" are too good for their own people and need to remember where they came from will see it as condemnation of them....
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  #72  
Old 19 May 2018, 21:28
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Both DD's and ET1's Videos are right, or correct.

Yet both seem to think you must adhere to a specific style/design standards to be considered beautiful *art*.

And both are mistaken too. Well, not if you want to CLEP out of your Western Civ or Humanities Classes.
But they both assume the only place you can find art is with the human hand (And that hand prob better be White and European). Yet we have an entire planet of landscapes, waterfalls or a bug, plant or bird that are definite things of beauty. And the way our natural Earth harmonizes is a thing of beauty. From the Sun/Moon's cycle pulling our tides to these Stars we navigate by.

I can easily agree with the above Videos and their disdain for *Modern Art*. I'd never given it much deep thought as to the causes of it's decline. All I knew is, it wasn't for me, so I moved on. I still find the Classics beautiful, so I'm not harmed by this new style of expression, though the rest of Western Civ may be. No idea.

As to the OP and this video being Art or Propaganda, I'd say ask the Artist what his intent was.

If it was propaganda, then it succeeded with me as long as he wants me to be aware that the Black inner-city/Ghetto Community continues to feed off itself in a self-destructive manner.

And if it was simply Art and he wanted to reflect what he saw, sees, and heard in America, then it worked.

Both of the above statements also reflect my potential-arrogance that I know what his intention was. I don't.

Unlike the OP, I wasn't offended in any way by this particular video.
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  #73  
Old Yesterday, 07:27
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The anti gun messages in this video are powerful. It's silly to minimize such amazingly effective propaganda.

Very few artists are expressing a pro gun view outside of country/nugent.

Without an effective counter voice we're losing this argument.
Our gun rights can be restricted and then removed with enough votes...the NRA needs to do more than sue and pay for politicians....they need to hit marketing and media in a different way, now it's aligned with their members, it needs to target those who are leaning against gun rights.

Exploit fear of trump and overzealous police in advertising the need for a level field in the face of tyranny, historical analogies about poor blacks in the south needing guns after slavery to stay alive, stories of citizens saving themselves....

We need to fight the anti gunners harder. I see the wave building and we're going to get slammed.
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  #74  
Old Yesterday, 12:28
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we're going to get slammed.
I hate to agree, but I do, at the same time as hoping I'm wrong.
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  #75  
Old Yesterday, 13:20
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Art at its core evokes an emotional response - it can range the whole spectrum. I got into an argument with a friend after a visit to the NY MOMA and thought a giant indigo panel on a wall was bullshit. I actually got pissed off it was considered art. In the ensuing debate with my friend, I concluded I was wrong. While I did not like it/appreciate it, the fact that it evoked such a strong response from me meant that it hit a nerve somewhere. Art, propaganda, design, etc. all have an interwoven history that sets of an emotional response. Most of us typically see the appreciation side, but there are artists who through history have been provocative as well.

The worst kind of art per the above definition then would be something that fails to generate any emotional reaction or sustain that response over time - its the type of art that ultimately disappears into the void.

My 2 cents...
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  #76  
Old Yesterday, 15:20
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My son asked if I saw the video to which I told him that I had not. He kindly then showed it to me. It was what it was — a Video showing his take on things that had occurred. I didn’t put another second’s thought into once it ended. It took it to be his version of “We didn’t start the fire”.

Beside reading about it here, I won’t give it another moment’s thought. It just isn’t that big a deal to me....
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  #77  
Old Today, 07:38
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IMO, one man's art is another man's crap and vice versa.
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  #78  
Old Today, 09:47
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A demographic raised on 80's and 90's music will probably think this music sucks ass - in the 80's and 90's we had hit songs like Cop Killer and Fuck The Police.

The 60's and 70's were so full of protest music that just about anything from that era was either condemning 'the system' or idolizing the sex-drugs-rocknroll lifestyle.

In a few years the same folks that are slobbering on themselves over how artful and creative this stuff is, will be looking down their nose at the crappy shit their kids are calling "music"


As KidA said- his PR team needs a YUGE pay raise
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