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  #21  
Old 5 June 2018, 12:49
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Corrections has MANY similar opportunities. Talking to Gomer is frequently going to demonstrate some surprising tidbits that you'd normally miss in passing if that's all you did. I engage with these folks on a daily basis:

I've been exposed, as a result, to way too much evil in my life, between Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and 18 years in Corrections.

I've learned that a good ear and a long fuse go a very, very long way to both gaining inmate respect, and their compliance.

It makes for a easier day, but very much more tiring, too. Sometimes you just want to pound their heads in like Whack-a-Mole, but then they just keep popping back up. You can't really win the game, as it just keeps on rolling, and the ticket dispenser at the bottom of the machine is empty, too.
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  #22  
Old 5 June 2018, 14:27
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
or the drunk decides he's good to drive after the cop drops him somewhere.
No kidding. There was a case when I was living up in Vancouver, I want to say 20-22 years ago, where VPD uniforms pulled over one of their detectives. Stinko. Parked the car, put him in a cab. Numbnuts went a ways down the road, had the cab driver circle back, hopped in the car. Car-ma decided that he should suffer for his idiocy and arrogance before someone else did, about a mile down Marine Dr. he did a Jayne Mansfield right into the back of a semi trailer.

So yeah, professional courtesy could have it's downside, I guess some days there's just no way to win, huh? I feel like a bit of a hypocrite sometimes considering how little tolerance I have for police brutality/excessive force and yet I don't think I'll ever be able to un-program myself where I always feel like being a vet or a cop is worth giving a break if it's possible/reasonable.
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  #23  
Old 5 June 2018, 16:53
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My wife likes to say, "words have meanings." Today's cops are "law enforcement officers", hence they get paid to enforce the law. Back in the days of yore, cops were called "Peace Officers" and they got paid to keep the peace. Personally l like the term "Peace Officer" better, because while sometimes keeping the peace might mean planting a MFer in the ground many other times it might simply mean kicking a bag of weed down a storm drain or issuing a fix-it ticket.

x/S
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  #24  
Old 5 June 2018, 17:57
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My wife likes to say, "words have meanings." Today's cops are "law enforcement officers", hence they get paid to enforce the law. Back in the days of yore, cops were called "Peace Officers" and they got paid to keep the peace. Personally l like the term "Peace Officer" better, because while sometimes keeping the peace might mean planting a MFer in the ground many other times it might simply mean kicking a bag of weed down a storm drain or issuing a fix-it ticket.

x/S
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  #25  
Old 5 June 2018, 19:00
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I'd like to remind everyone pining for the halcyon days of yore that your memories are extremely rose tinted and cops used to beat the shit out of people like there was a prize inside. Frequently, with zero repercussions.
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  #26  
Old 5 June 2018, 19:21
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Cops are all assholes, I present Masshole...er...ah....I man Massgrunt as living proof. Total facking wicked asshat. Itís true.
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  #27  
Old 5 June 2018, 19:25
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
I'd like to remind everyone pining for the halcyon days of yore that your memories are extremely rose tinted and cops used to beat the shit out of people like there was a prize inside. Frequently, with zero repercussions.
Could we say that you and ExSquid are talking about 2 sides of the same coin? I would think that more often than not they were tagging the right people, problem is that "more often than not" covers a lot of innocent people.

As you say, different times......
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  #28  
Old 5 June 2018, 20:31
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
I'd like to remind everyone pining for the halcyon days of yore that your memories are extremely rose tinted and cops used to beat the shit out of people like there was a prize inside. Frequently, with zero repercussions.


Or just disappear the shitheads.
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  #29  
Old 5 June 2018, 20:37
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Originally Posted by MikeC2W View Post
Cops are all assholes, I present Masshole...er...ah....I man Massgrunt as living proof. Total facking wicked asshat. Itís true.
Hey what hotel are you at? I might uh swing over for a beer.
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

- "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
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  #30  
Old 5 June 2018, 20:39
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Originally Posted by bobofthedesert View Post
Could we say that you and ExSquid are talking about 2 sides of the same coin? I would think that more often than not they were tagging the right people, problem is that "more often than not" covers a lot of innocent people.
And you think that why? Also, if I recall correctly you seem to be a frequent message board policing expert but here you're advocating for police picking and choosing which laws to enforce and against who. I'm a bit confused.
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

- "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
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  #31  
Old 6 June 2018, 09:37
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
Hey what hotel are you at? I might uh swing over for a beer.
Ha!

I decided to drive up this morning.

Come on over to the Edward M. Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate and PLEASE FUCKING PLEASE arrest me....

...and then we can just go to a pub or something.
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  #32  
Old 6 June 2018, 09:41
Gsniper Gsniper is offline
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PLEASE FUCKING PLEASE arrest me....
See? There is still a place in modern LE for "beat and release".
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  #33  
Old 6 June 2018, 10:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
you seem to be a frequent message board policing expert
Not at all, and certainly no expert, if you'll go back and look at actual posts you'll see they are mostly are anti egregious abuse, anti blue wall posts. And we're all against that stuff, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
but here you're advocating for police picking and choosing which laws to enforce and against who. I'm a bit confused.
I recognize that there's a place for officer discretion, as a couple of Peace Officers have pointed out. Pretty much the final check and balance in a lot of ways.

It's a hard job with a lot of pit falls. I wasted a lot of years hoping to get OTJ in an area where the odds were against me (Chicago, 8 years break between tests and I was the wrong color during that time, and no political connects) instead of just going out to LA where that would never have been an issue.

If I could go back and talk to my 21 yrs old recently discharged self, I would have headed out to Santa Barbara where my grandfather had been a Battalion Chief and eventually the Fire Marshal and become a fireman. 24 on, 48 off and I'd already be retired with 30-35 years in. On the downside of that, I expect CA to default on it's pension plans at some point.....Seriously, knowing what (little) I know now, I'd never be a cop. Too much grief, and people are always happy to see the firemen show up.
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  #34  
Old 6 June 2018, 11:08
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
police picking and choosing which laws to enforce and against who.

Police have been doing that since there were Police. I've certainly done it. If I pulled over a mini-van with a soccer mom and three kids inside for 10 over, chances are she is getting a warning. If I pull over a shit car with three gangbangers inside, they get tickets, I'm requesting K9, and I'm getting consent to search because I know they are doing something wrong, I just have to figure out what. One is a law-abiding tax paying citizen just trying to get to a likely shitty job after she drops her kids off. The other car is filled with genetic debris that I don't want in my community. Not saying it was fair, but that's how I looked at it.

I think the difference is that back in the day people trusted the Police to know which heads needed to be cracked, and which didn't. That trust is almost non-existent today, and it is mostly the fault of LE. Some of it is political fault caving to PC pressure, some of it is the fault of bad internal policy and promoting the wrong people, and some of it is the fault of LEO's not self-policing their own.
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  #35  
Old 6 June 2018, 11:48
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
I think the difference is that back in the day people trusted the Police to know which heads needed to be cracked, and which didn't. That trust is almost non-existent today, and it is mostly the fault of LE. Some of it is political fault caving to PC pressure, some of it is the fault of bad internal policy and promoting the wrong people, and some of it is the fault of LEO's not self-policing their own.
On target as usual.
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  #36  
Old 6 June 2018, 15:05
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
Police have been doing that since there were Police. I've certainly done it. If I pulled over a mini-van with a soccer mom and three kids inside for 10 over, chances are she is getting a warning. If I pull over a shit car with three gangbangers inside, they get tickets, I'm requesting K9, and I'm getting consent to search because I know they are doing something wrong, I just have to figure out what. One is a law-abiding tax paying citizen just trying to get to a likely shitty job after she drops her kids off. The other car is filled with genetic debris that I don't want in my community. Not saying it was fair, but that's how I looked at it.

I think the difference is that back in the day people trusted the Police to know which heads needed to be cracked, and which didn't. That trust is almost non-existent today, and it is mostly the fault of LE. Some of it is political fault caving to PC pressure, some of it is the fault of bad internal policy and promoting the wrong people, and some of it is the fault of LEO's not self-policing their own.
Fuck yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Sharky for Chief of Police wherever.
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  #37  
Old 6 June 2018, 15:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
I'd like to remind everyone pining for the halcyon days of yore that your memories are extremely rose tinted and cops used to beat the shit out of people like there was a prize inside. Frequently, with zero repercussions.
And during dragnet searches for criminals, especially ones who killed a cop, warrantless searches were not uncommon. Bearing in mind that many of the places where a criminal would hide out were in neighborhoods not many people cared about any way. Had a few uncles on CPD back in those days, way before Miranda and the civil rights movement took hold. They kicked ass and took names, and if you didn't like it, tough. Beat cops had the attitude that if they told you to move off of a corner, you'd better be gone by the time he made his next circuit by that location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
Police have been doing that since there were Police. I've certainly done it. If I pulled over a mini-van with a soccer mom and three kids inside for 10 over, chances are she is getting a warning. If I pull over a shit car with three gangbangers inside, they get tickets, I'm requesting K9, and I'm getting consent to search because I know they are doing something wrong, I just have to figure out what. One is a law-abiding tax paying citizen just trying to get to a likely shitty job after she drops her kids off. The other car is filled with genetic debris that I don't want in my community. Not saying it was fair, but that's how I looked at it.

I think the difference is that back in the day people trusted the Police to know which heads needed to be cracked, and which didn't. That trust is almost non-existent today, and it is mostly the fault of LE. Some of it is political fault caving to PC pressure, some of it is the fault of bad internal policy and promoting the wrong people, and some of it is the fault of LEO's not self-policing their own.
Of course, you can't discount that the soccer mom w/kids and others like her are part of a drug/gun smuggling ring and are just moving their goods from point A to point B.

Not unlike those sweet, elderly retired folks in their RVs who have in the past been recruited to move contraband across the country, because who ever suspects their grandparents to be involved in something like that.

I always thought Mickey Munday's tactic of flying drugs further north of Miami, offloading them into the trunks of cars which were then placed on flatbed tow trucks and driven south back toward Miami was a stroke of genius. Eventually narcs caught on, but they were able to use that tactic for awhile.

Because who would ever smuggle drugs to Miami from El Norte?
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  #38  
Old 6 June 2018, 16:04
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Originally Posted by Spinner View Post

Of course, you can't discount that the soccer mom w/kids and others like her are part of a drug/gun smuggling ring and are just moving their goods from point A to point B.

Not unlike those sweet, elderly retired folks in their RVs who have in the past been recruited to move contraband across the country, because who ever suspects their grandparents to be involved in something like that.

I always thought Mickey Munday's tactic of flying drugs further north of Miami, offloading them into the trunks of cars which were then placed on flatbed tow trucks and driven south back toward Miami was a stroke of genius. Eventually narcs caught on, but they were able to use that tactic for awhile.

Because who would ever smuggle drugs to Miami from El Norte?

Having quite literally seized thousands of pounds of marijuana and a whole lot of cocaine in my career, I am not unaware that the lady in the mini-van is also a potential criminal. I was speaking in generalities for the sake of making a point.
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  #39  
Old 6 June 2018, 16:29
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I know, I figured you'd probably seen most of the tricks, especially with the BP.

I guess I was just making a point about the generalities and stereotypes that get tossed out there when talking about a particular group, in the case of this thread young cops, primarily millenials, although I don't even like using that tag anymore.

I'm sure when some of the old timers now were the same age as some of the younger ones they are currently critical of, their elders (who'd probably joined the force without a college degree and maybe quite a few were WWII and Korean War Vets) would scoff derisively at any younger officer who'd gone on to complete some post HS education as a "college boy", as if having a little "book smarts" would take the edge off of them. We've even seen it in popular culture as depicted from movies in the 70s and 80s, heard that term tossed around quite a bit.

We've seen it in the Army too, each generation thinks the one that follows is a little weaker, a little more naive and didn't have it quite as tough. What we call street smarts our parents just called common sense, and I'm sure when this new generation of cops comes of age 20-30 years from now, they'll have a derisive term for the youngsters following in their footsteps.

Some things never change.
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  #40  
Old 6 June 2018, 17:14
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tootall tootall is offline
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
..."Don't be a dick"...
Those are the exact words I was told by my father and brother when I got into law enforcement. It has served me well, and I use the same phrase when I'm teaching recruits at the academy.
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