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  #141  
Old 4 July 2018, 07:50
8654maine 8654maine is online now
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Great thread and responses!
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  #142  
Old 4 July 2018, 11:42
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Post Broward County and Las Vegas incidents with officers failing to act I would add this. Do some serious soul searching BEFORE the bad shit happens to really evaluate what you are willing to run toward. Then train like your life, that of those you work with, and those you serve depend on it because they do. You never get a heads up a week in advance to prepare for the bad thing. When it happens (and you better assume it will) you will come as you are, not as you wish you were. Thereís no shame in coming to the realization that itís not for you.
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  #143  
Old 6 July 2018, 09:29
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FSB, well said
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  #144  
Old 18 September 2018, 13:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grog18b View Post
RIP Brother.

To all those out there still on the job... if you are going to assume anything, assume that someone on your next call is going to try to kill you. At some point, you will be right.

On all "disturbance" or domestic calls, we always parked somewhere that was not visible to the people, and walked in. This gives you time to determine what is going on, instead of rolling up and finding out the hard way. There were many domestic type situations where we were outside the house and neither people knew we were there, and we would hear all sorts of useful things, like the wives yelling at the husbands that "when the cops get here I'm going to tell them you XXXXX me and you are going to jail..." It's also easier, when you observe for a few minutes, who the real problem is. You can get a better handle on what is really going on.

So, count this as an educational experience, as we do with other OIS, and assume there is someone there that wants to do you harm. I did the same thing whenever I transported a prisoner. Assume that they are, at some point, going to try to either escape, or kill you. I had a guy actually tell me when he got to jail that was his exact plan, but he never had the chance due to my conduct during the whole transport. Never take your eyes off them, and never turn your back on them. Also, never allow someone to get back to their vehicle if you have arrested them, or are trying to arrest them. They are not going there to get a bouquet of flowers for you. Assume there's a weapon and act accordingly.

Be safe out there, and get home.
RIP Brother!

Great advice. I've gone as far as to have dispatch call back and tell the male party to walk outside after we've parked out of eyesight, walked and gotten into good cover and concealment (advantage of nightshift). Yell at them to lift up their shirt, most times they don't even know where I'm yelling from. Sounds like the Deputy was hit in the upper torso, which leads me to believe (assume/guess) it was a rifle. As lite as IV plates are these days, concealable IV plate frames might be the future.

Also, keep in mind the region of the state/county you're in. I work in Southern Lorain County. All the residents here know how to shoot, they all deer hunt, they all have shotguns and rifles. Come prepared to the fight that IS coming, not that MIGHT come.
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  #145  
Old 18 September 2018, 18:38
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nofear nofear is offline
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Complacency kills. I responded to over 90,000 incidents as a street cop, and what constantly amazed me was the complacency of most other street cops I worked with.

Call on a strange chemical smell? Had to tell partner NOT to drive to the address, but park a block away and slowly walk in, using your damn nose.

Man with a gun call? Had to tell partner NOT to drive to the address, but park down the street and slowly walk in.

Any number of street interviews - Constantly reminding partners to check their surroundings and not get tunnel vision on the POI.

Yes, put the damn shotgun in the vehicle at the start of the shift!

Put your damn notebook away before we knock on the door!

Yes, I know it's hot, but if you're wearing a vest, wear it properly. (Lost a friend due to this shit)

How do you fight complacency in others? I don't have an easy solution to that one.
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  #146  
Old 18 September 2018, 19:39
revanation revanation is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear View Post
Complacency kills. I responded to over 90,000 incidents as a street cop, and what constantly amazed me was the complacency of most other street cops I worked with.

Call on a strange chemical smell? Had to tell partner NOT to drive to the address, but park a block away and slowly walk in, using your damn nose.

Man with a gun call? Had to tell partner NOT to drive to the address, but park down the street and slowly walk in.

Any number of street interviews - Constantly reminding partners to check their surroundings and not get tunnel vision on the POI.

Yes, put the damn shotgun in the vehicle at the start of the shift!

Put your damn notebook away before we knock on the door!

Yes, I know it's hot, but if you're wearing a vest, wear it properly. (Lost a friend due to this shit)

How do you fight complacency in others? I don't have an easy solution to that one.
90k in 10 yrs? That seems a little high to be honest. If you worked every single day of the year without taking a day off for that decade , it will still be like 25 different incidents a day.
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  #147  
Old 18 September 2018, 19:50
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nofear nofear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revanation View Post
90k in 10 yrs? That seems a little high to be honest. If you worked every single day of the year without taking a day off for that decade , it will still be like 25 different incidents a day.
Yes it's high. Was single, worked any and all overtime that was available, (which was always available), and even spent 6 months straight working double shifts, without a single day off.

I actually had a swag, (sleeping roll/mattress thing), in the station which I frequently used as I was too tired to drive home.

25 incidents would be a normal shift. VERY understaffed. Constantly telling comms (dispatch) during a call that no, we couldn't drop everything to go to another call.

Spent another 6 months getting called out every single damn night to critical incidents.

Last few years I was the shift Sgt, so even though I responded to a lot more incidents, I wasn't handling all the paperwork, which allowed me to assist / command on even more incidents.

It...was...nuts. Overtime pay was great, and I spent way too much when off-duty. Very fast-paced life.

Afghanistan was a holiday in comparison....seriously so.
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Last edited by nofear; 18 September 2018 at 19:55. Reason: Spelling
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  #148  
Old 18 September 2018, 19:51
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Basic officer safety shit is ignored all the time.
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  #149  
Old 18 September 2018, 21:03
revanation revanation is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear View Post
Yes it's high. Was single, worked any and all overtime that was available, (which was always available), and even spent 6 months straight working double shifts, without a single day off.

I actually had a swag, (sleeping roll/mattress thing), in the station which I frequently used as I was too tired to drive home.

25 incidents would be a normal shift. VERY understaffed. Constantly telling comms (dispatch) during a call that no, we couldn't drop everything to go to another call.

Spent another 6 months getting called out every single damn night to critical incidents.

Last few years I was the shift Sgt, so even though I responded to a lot more incidents, I wasn't handling all the paperwork, which allowed me to assist / command on even more incidents.

It...was...nuts. Overtime pay was great, and I spent way too much when off-duty. Very fast-paced life.

Afghanistan was a holiday in comparison....seriously so.
Gotcha. Appreciate the explanation and that number makes sense in that scenario.
Cheers
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  #150  
Old 18 September 2018, 22:14
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nofear nofear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revanation View Post
Gotcha. Appreciate the explanation and that number makes sense in that scenario.
Cheers
All good. Not the first time I've had to prove/justify those numbers. Sometimes I wish I had printed out my stats before I resigned.
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  #151  
Old 20 September 2018, 02:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear View Post
Complacency kills. I responded to over 90,000 incidents as a street cop, and what constantly amazed me was the complacency of most other street cops I worked with.

Yes, put the damn shotgun in the vehicle at the start of the shift!

Put your damn notebook away before we knock on the door!

Yes, I know it's hot, but if you're wearing a vest, wear it properly. (Lost a friend due to this shit)

How do you fight complacency in others? I don't have an easy solution to that one.
It's become apparent to me that the only way for someone to fight off complacency is for the person in question to experience why being complacent is a big deal. There's a big problem in LE called self-deception. It goes hand in hand with complacency.

Went to court the other day and one of their city's Officers were walking around with no weapon and no vest. I went up to him, "bro, where's your gun and vest?" He said, "it's court man, calm down."

Yeah, right, because nothing has ever happened in a court/courtroom setting. I transfer ALL my call-out gear in my car every shift, it's a tremendous pain in the ass but, I don't know when or where the next Pulse Nightclub shooting is going to happen. Prepare accordingly.

When you're told to "be safe" on shift, understand you can't "be safe" in anything you do. Whether that's on your drive to work or stopping the bank, but you can "be careful."

Be careful new LE hopefuls, take in your situation, if something seems wrong, it probably is. Ask why, question everything people you serve say to you, leave no door open so you can close the door for any potential loophole someone WILL ask you on the stand. Don't lie, EVER. There nothing wrong with saying, I don't recall. You'll lose any credibility (Brady Law) with the court/prosecutors/jurors, once you are labeled as a cheat or lair you might as well find a new career. We don't need that type in this profession.

Good info nofear, thanks for a lifetime of service to your people.
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