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Old 17 January 2018, 14:46
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Advice please

Iím pretty new to the site and often wondering if Iím posting too much. But I can tell you, I am on the forums all the time, searching and reading. Iíve noticed a few things transitioning from the Army to Police work. Policemen hate the way things are and hate change and, Policemen seem to have a hard time receiving criticism. An example: it was snowing like crazy the other day and I see a couple guys using Crown Vicís when there were two all-wheel-drive Explorers available. Using the example of a Rally car racer I told them no Rally car racer would use an rear wheel drive car to race in these conditions, why would you? Their response: ďI chase down cars all the time in my Crown Vic.Ē Not being in a leadership position, I guess thatís about all I can do.

A bunch of the guys complain about the condition of our Poloce Department, itís not the greatest so I get it. There has been something proposed at City Council to put something on the Ballot asking to raise taxes to pay for a new station and a few more full time guys. With that in mind and the amount of snowing going on, I recommended to the other guys on shift to grab some shovels so we can help people get out of their drive ways. Their response, ďfuck that, itís too coldĒ among other responses I care not to share. I saw it as an opportunity for the community to see we care about them which, hopefully, theyíd remember when they went to vote.

All that to say, I struggle with being a part of that culture. Wanting or demanding things from the community or from their leadership but not doing anything to earn those things. The things I enjoy about Police work is the opportunity to help the community, I like the public servant part of the job. I donít write tickets unless someone did something unsafe, but some cops brag about writing a ticket. Maybe Iím dense, but I just donít get it. When I was in 2-3 IN we had CSM Dotson (after having CSM Burke, awesome CSM), he came from 75th Ranger Regiment, Iím sure someone knows him. I can remember him always saying ďpick the hard right over the easy wrong.Ē With that in mind and seeing the Police culture, I wonder if this career field is for me.

Any advise?
Thanks
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  #2  
Old 17 January 2018, 14:57
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Agoge Agoge is online now
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LE is a calling. Sure there are many that are doing it because it's a job and puts money on the table. A lot of them are actually good LEO's because they have a good work ethic. They would be great plumbers if they were doing that. But, a lot of them are tools who are in it for the wrong reasons. They are lazy and do only what they HAVE to do versus what they SHOULD do.

With that said, if you want to shovel snow...then shovel it. You don't need them. Be a LEO because you felt called to be one, not because you wanted to fit into a certain environment or group of non-hacking clowns.

Humanity hates change as a whole, but in the end, who really cares. Do what you feel led to do. If they don't want to participate, that shouldn't change your desire to do so. Serve and protect! In this case, shovel snow!

Set a new standard...if they don't like it...tough. If everyone always does as it has always been done, things will never change. When I was a couple weeks out of FTO, one of the senior officers caught me in the parking lot one day and said, "Hey, you need to slow down. If you keep up at that pace, the brass will expect that of all of us." I replied, "No. They know just what to expect of you and nothing more." I then walked away.

Doing what's right isn't always going to be popular, but it will ALWAYS be right. So, do what you feel led to do and let the clowns do what is already expected of them.

SET A NEW STANDARD and drive on....
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Old 17 January 2018, 15:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
They would be great plumbers if they were doing that. But, a lot of them are tools who are in it for the wrong reasons. They are lazy and do only what they HAVE to do versus what they SHOULD do.
I use that analogy with some of my lazier colleagues. "If you were a plumber would you be doing the bare minimum in that job?"
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Old 17 January 2018, 15:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
LE is a calling. Sure there are many that are doing it because it's a job and puts money on the table. A lot of them are actually good LEO's because they have a good work ethic. They would be great plumbers if they were doing that. But, a lot of them are tools who are in it for the wrong reasons. They are lazy and do only what they HAVE to do versus what they SHOULD do.

With that said, if you want to shovel snow...then shovel it. You don't need them. Be a LEO because you felt called to be one, not because you wanted to fit into a certain environment or group of non-hacking clowns.

Humanity hates change as a whole, but in the end, who really cares. Do what you feel led to do. If they don't want to participate, that shouldn't change your desire to do so. Serve and protect! In this case, shovel snow!

Set a new standard...if they don't like it...tough. If everyone always does as it has always been done, things will never change. When I was a couple weeks out of FTO, one of the senior officers caught me in the parking lot one day and said, "Hey, you need to slow down. If you keep up at that pace, the brass will expect that of all of us." I replied, "No. They know just what to expect of you and nothing more." I then walked away.

Doing what's right isn't always going to be popular, but it will ALWAYS be right. So, do what you feel led to do and let the clowns do what is already expected of them.

SET A NEW STANDARD and drive on....
Thatís about what I thought. Iím going to make a temporary career move and wondered about coming back into LE. Thanks
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  #5  
Old 17 January 2018, 15:58
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 256 View Post
... CSM Dotson ... always saying ďpick the hard right over the easy wrong.Ē
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
LE is a calling. Sure there are many that are doing it because it's a job and puts money on the table. A lot of them are actually good LEO's because they have a good work ethic. They would be great plumbers if they were doing that. But, a lot of them are tools who are in it for the wrong reasons. They are lazy and do only what they HAVE to do versus what they SHOULD do.

With that said, if you want to shovel snow...then shovel it. You don't need them. Be a LEO because you felt called to be one, not because you wanted to fit into a certain environment or group of non-hacking clowns.

Humanity hates change as a whole, but in the end, who really cares. Do what you feel led to do. If they don't want to participate, that shouldn't change your desire to do so. Serve and protect! In this case, shovel snow!

Set a new standard...if they don't like it...tough. If everyone always does as it has always been done, things will never change. When I was a couple weeks out of FTO, one of the senior officers caught me in the parking lot one day and said, "Hey, you need to slow down. If you keep up at that pace, the brass will expect that of all of us." I replied, "No. They know just what to expect of you and nothing more." I then walked away.

Doing what's right isn't always going to be popular, but it will ALWAYS be right. So, do what you feel led to do and let the clowns do what is already expected of them.

SET A NEW STANDARD and drive on....
Great truths here.
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  #6  
Old 17 January 2018, 16:22
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I can tell you I had a choice between being a Paramedic and going the sworn LE path. I chose the Paramedic path and I could not have made a better choice. I lived, ate and breathed emergency care. It took me all around the world, ground ambulance, air ambulance, and learned a skill set that was far and above the usual Paramedic skillset.

In the midst of being a Paramedic, I worked part-time as a sworn C/O. Decided I like medicine better and moved along. There is nothing wrong with that.

I retired from EMS and went to work for the CA DOJ as non-sworn where I am today. I miss being a Paramedic every single day.

Many paths to take. Whatever you decide, make sure your heart and soul are in it. Whatever you do, strive to be the very best every day. Fire, EMS and LE is serious business, your life, your partner and citizens lives depend on you.
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  #7  
Old 17 January 2018, 18:10
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Sigi Sigi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
When I was a couple weeks out of FTO, one of the senior officers caught me in the parking lot one day and said, "Hey, you need to slow down. If you keep up at that pace, the brass will expect that of all of us." I replied, "No. They know just what to expect of you and nothing more." I then walked away.
Nice! I like it.
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  #8  
Old 17 January 2018, 19:17
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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Yup, be the best YOU can be, in whatever career field YOU choose.

You'll see slackers and slack-jaws in every profession.
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Old 17 January 2018, 19:52
34RX 34RX is offline
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I'm at about the midpoint of my career. I'm more proud of the help I've given people than any arrest I've made. I fortunately work in a jurisdiction that affords me the time to go that extra mile for the people I serve. Many jurisdictions have a call volume that make it hard to do that little extra. I see my helping opportunities as ones that I take on behalf of all cops who sometimes have to cut things short to go to a hot call.

When I started, numbers were a focus. Now they are a metric I'm aware of but they aren't what will dictate my shift. I think I'm better for that and the public gets better service....and fewer tickets😃.


Caveat-not saying guys shouldn't be proud of making significant arrests of people who really need to go away.
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  #10  
Old 17 January 2018, 20:00
Sharkcity Sharkcity is offline
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LE is only as good to you as you are to it. But not everyone can do it and even some that do can barely/can't do it. But given the circumstances, you don't have to write a ton of tickets to be a productive LEO. Giving people breaks can be a good thing in many cases. If other LEOs are bragging about tickets, then they're literally flat out stupid. If you enjoy the public service portion of the job, then you can make good out of that. LE is a public service business. Also, I've seen many people get out of LE and find very successful careers in other fields. You're an asset anywhere that you go if that's what you make yourself.
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  #11  
Old 17 January 2018, 20:49
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Massgrunt Massgrunt is online now
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I consider traffic tickets low hanging fruit. While they are actually important they're also a way for guys who don't really want to get their hands dirty to look busy.
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  #12  
Old 17 January 2018, 22:01
Sharkcity Sharkcity is offline
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a way for guys who don't really want to get their hands dirty to look busy.
That and gung-ho jackasses to find every reason to use their blue lights.
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Old 17 January 2018, 23:43
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That and gung-ho jackasses to find every reason to use their blue lights.
Laugh, cough, snort. We west coast folks laugh at only blue lights. Very Hill Street Blues like.

I kid, I kid.
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Winter is here again oh Lord,
Haven't been home in a year or more
I hope she holds on a little longer
Sent a letter on a long summer day
Made of silver, not of clay
I've been runnin' down this dusty road

I've been trying to make it home
Got to make it before too long
I can't take this very much longer
I'm stranded in the sleet and rain
Don't think I'm ever gonna make it home again.
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Old 18 January 2018, 03:23
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I'm at about the midpoint of my career. I'm more proud of the help I've given people than any arrest I've made. I fortunately work in a jurisdiction that affords me the time to go that extra mile for the people I serve. Caveat-not saying guys shouldn't be proud of making significant arrests of people who really need to go away.
I work in the same type of jurisdiction. The call volume is low, which allows a lot of flexibility during my shift. Walking downtown and pulling on doors is something the people really like to see. I do the same thing in the neighborhoods, minus pulling on the doors. You're absolutely right, some people really do need to just go away. Interestingly enough, being a smaller town Police Officer I do most of the investigating. There's really no detective to send initial reports to.

Thank you gents for the insight. After a small detour in my career I'll probably be back to shoveling driveways. Be careful out there.
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Old 18 January 2018, 09:26
Sharkcity Sharkcity is offline
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Laugh, cough, snort. We west coast folks laugh at only blue lights. Very Hill Street Blues like.

I kid, I kid.
Lol. A lot of east coast folks laugh at them, too. No worries on that end.
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Old 18 January 2018, 09:51
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RedDawg_03 RedDawg_03 is offline
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256,
I left being a full time cop quite a few years ago. I ran into a woman that is now 36, grown up, married, and has a daughter. She told me that the break that I gave her and a couple of her friends years ago meant so much to her and turned her on to a path that she wasn't headed down at the time.

Those idiots that are "all about the arrests" and "all about the tickets" are idiots and don't really understand what its about. Its not a numbers game. Some of us really did believe in the "Protect and Serve" thing......Protect is a loaded word. How you interpret is up to you. I ended up leaving because of crap leadership that were more interested in "stats" and numbers then they were anything else. I miss it a lot.
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Old 18 January 2018, 10:50
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With that said, if you want to shovel snow...then shovel it. You don't need them. Be a LEO because you felt called to be one, not because you wanted to fit into a certain environment or group
Well said. Wake up and be the best LEO that YOU can be and don't worry about how lazy or cynical the next guy is. It is your career, not theirs. Quite a few cops get burnt out and can become quite obnoxious in their disdain for those who are not.

It can be a double edged sword to be community orientated. For example, you get out and shovel some driveways, helping out your fellow citizen. The next thing you know, your Sergeant receives complaints because the Officer shoveled that guy's driveway instead of his driveway....or you only shoveled certain neighborhoods driveways....or you only shoveled the driveways of certain citizens because of race, etc., etc.. Sounds silly, but it happens and after awhile, certain guys get tired of fielding complaints.

During Hurricane Harvey when Deputies and Police Officers were chest deep in flood water, rescuing citizens and animals, we actually fielded complaints from citizens because we weren't taking citizens personal property into our boats or trucks such as safes and extra bags of clothing, TV's, etc.. Sounds silly, but it happens.

As for tickets, some guys are traffic Nazi's....some utilize traffic as a tool in narcotics interdiction....some use it to pad their stats, etc. It runs the board. But I do know that most Cops have their 'buggaboo's' that one traffic violation that they never let go and will always cite or arrest for....be it driving on improved shoulder, etc.. Mine has always been no license or insurance. If you're not a licensed driver or do not have valid insurance, you're getting stroked or arrested. That's just me.
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Old 18 January 2018, 12:11
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Appreciate it

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDawg_03 View Post
I ended up leaving because of crap leadership that were more interested in "stats" and numbers then they were anything else. I miss it a lot.
I'm in a good spot leadership wise, I'm really lucky in that department. It's almost as if you have to try and change the culture. As soon as I used the example about the SUVs and got the response I got, they didn't even understand what I was talking about. Instead they took it like a personal attack. It was an example. I wanted them to look at the big picture. Don't do things that could get you, your partner and MOST importantly the population hurt. Using a rear-wheel drive vehicle isn't giving you the best odds, in those conditions. Makes me miss Army AARs. No one cared about your feelings. You fucked something up, that puts people at risk, this Army thing is risky enough, stop doing the dumb thing. Policing and complacency seem to go hand and hand. It's tough because you have to go to work knowing that bad thing probably isn't going to happen, but always having to be ready for it. IE, fucking drive SUVs in the snow; improve your odds. I certainly could see missing it, I know I'd miss aspects of it.

Glad I picked all of your brains, thanks for the insight!
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Old 18 January 2018, 18:53
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
I use that analogy with some of my lazier colleagues. "If you were a plumber would you be doing the bare minimum in that job?"
Yes, they would. For some people the bare minimum is their maximum.
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Old 18 January 2018, 18:59
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Massgrunt Massgrunt is online now
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Yes, they would. For some people the bare minimum is their maximum.
Yup, only in the real world they'd eventually be fired.
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