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Old 13 February 2018, 12:54
Nokangaroos Nokangaroos is offline
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Police officer fired for not shooting suspect reaches settlement

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-a-settlement/

Was fired for not shooting suspect - City now accepted settlement
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Old 13 February 2018, 13:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokangaroos View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-a-settlement/

Was fired for not shooting suspect - City now accepted settlement
One of the other cops called the one who didn't shoot a coward?
And the one who had the restraint not to shoot is a former Marine who served in Afghanistan.
What the actual fuck?

Seems to me the one who shot is the fucking coward fear biter.

Glad I don't live in that town.
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Old 13 February 2018, 14:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokangaroos View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-a-settlement/

Was fired for not shooting suspect - City now accepted settlement
Care to share your opinion on this? We can all read the internet. No need for you to blindly post a link to start a conversation. Why not share your opinion?

My opinion: I can see why two cops interpreted the situation differently. The story itself makes it sound like the Dept. was just trying to cover its ass. Not sure if that is the case and we'll likely never know since the matter was "settled."

I'd like to see more cops show restraint, but not at the cost of getting shot. A tough go/no go decision. The rookie cop / former Marine was doing what he thought was right.
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Old 13 February 2018, 14:18
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Thought there was already a thread on this. Reason had a bunch of coverage about it, too.

Mader sounds like the kind of officer we need more of. Unfortunately, Weirton's treatment drove him completely away from LE. Nice work, Weirton.

Edit: the thing I'm not clear about is whether Mader notified the other officers that he had info that the gun wasn't loaded. It sounds like backup arrived and fired pretty quickly.
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Old 13 February 2018, 14:20
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Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
Seems to me the one who shot is the fucking coward fear biter.


I wouldn't go that far. Just because he deployed and is a former Marine only goes so far. While I am the first to criticize the "fear biters" and the 1* crowd, I will also say that if you point a gun at an LEO you should expect to get shot. Nobody expects an LEO to take a bullet before defending himself. From what the article states, he didn't raise the gun until the other officers approached. It was kept at his side. Once there were three officers on scene, he raised the gun and was killed. Maybe the kid did vapor lock. It does happen. Just because he went to AFG doesn't mean he will pull the trigger when needed, or that he needs to be an LEO.
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Old 13 February 2018, 14:29
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Just wow! This is one of the very issues I've had with LE for many years; their tendency to NOT de-escalate a bad situation. Or they refusal to use their brain instead going right to deadly shit. This young man used his brain, stayed calm, and got himself fired.

On a happier note, the ACLU does get it right sometimes.
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Old 13 February 2018, 14:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
Seems to me the one who shot is the fucking coward fear biter.

Glad I don't live in that town.
"As Mader was trying to get Williams to drop his gun, two other Weirton police officers arrived. Mader told CNN that Williams raised his gun and was immediately shot and killed by one of the other officers. A state investigation found the officer's actions were justified."

Anybody who raises a gun like that in my presence is getting shot. Guess I'm a coward fear biter too. I mean, everybody knows domestic disturbances with a suicidal guy brandishing a firearm are no big deal.
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Old 13 February 2018, 14:40
Nokangaroos Nokangaroos is offline
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Originally Posted by Fubar View Post
Care to share your opinion on this? We can all read the internet. No need for you to blindly post a link to start a conversation. Why not share your opinion?

My opinion: I can see why two cops interpreted the situation differently. The story itself makes it sound like the Dept. was just trying to cover its ass. Not sure if that is the case and we'll likely never know since the matter was "settled."

I'd like to see more cops show restraint, but not at the cost of getting shot. A tough go/no go decision. The rookie cop / former Marine was doing what he thought was right.
My personal opinion (as a non LEO) is that the “suicide by cop“ theory sounds legit - so the rookie officer acted in a responsible way(but still with a certain percentage of risk taken)
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Old 13 February 2018, 15:19
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In my opinion, based on what Ive read in this article, I cant fault the other officers for shooting Williams, but I will say I think the officers who citicized Mader, as well as everyone involved in his firing are in the wrong.
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Old 13 February 2018, 15:50
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I always like to to a little research before weighing in on stories from the interwebs.

So..I found out that according to the city, he was fired for other reasons:

Quote:
Weirton City Manager Travis Blosser said Monday, however, that the city stands by Mader’s firing.

Officials in Weirton, an Ohio River community of 19,000 residents 36 miles west of Pittsburgh, had said Mader was fired eight weeks after the shooting for conduct unbecoming of an officer in three separate incidents.

"We still feel we made the correct decision," Blosser said. "We don't regret that decision. We feel we made the correct decision for the community."
Mader sued, saying it was really about his failure to shoot the suspect. The city settled the suit, because it's cheaper than fighting allegations (as is often the case with settlements).

So, this whole thread should get reeled back in a bit.
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Old 13 February 2018, 16:00
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This is interesting, although the part about the cardiac arrest call is strange.
Quote:
Mader's personnel file, previously obtained by The Associated Press through a Freedom of Information Act request, included an investigative report by a Weirton police captain who wrote that Williams presented "a clear and present danger" to others and recommended Mader's firing for several incidents.

In March 2016, Mader was issued a verbal warning for opening a car door to place a parking ticket inside without having a search warrant and cursing at the car owner's wife. A disorderly conduct charge against the owner was later dropped.

A month later, Mader responded to a call about a cardiac arrest and found a woman dead on a stairway. Mader determined the victim died of natural causes. He didn't fill out a police report, collected no evidence and the body was sent to a funeral home. Police Chief Rob Alexander called the handling of the suspicious death "unacceptable," and an autopsy determined the victim sustained blunt force trauma to the neck and upper torso
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Old 13 February 2018, 16:05
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Originally Posted by ramzmedic View Post
Just wow! This is one of the very issues I've had with LE for many years; their tendency to NOT de-escalate a bad situation. Or they refusal to use their brain instead going right to deadly shit. This young man used his brain, stayed calm, and got himself fired.

On a happier note, the ACLU does get it right sometimes.
So, you still holding that position about Officer Mader? ACLU got this one right?
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Old 13 February 2018, 16:42
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Got oddly quiet in here.....

Still waiting to hear when it's okay for me to shoot someone leveling a weapon at me.
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Old 13 February 2018, 16:51
havok88 havok88 is offline
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Originally Posted by Whitebean54 View Post
Got oddly quiet in here.....

Still waiting to hear when it's okay for me to shoot someone leveling a weapon at me.
I dont think anyone has said they have a problem with this.
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Old 13 February 2018, 17:00
ramzmedic ramzmedic is offline
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So, you still holding that position about Officer Mader? ACLU got this one right?
Gavin, I responded to what was posted up to that point man. Some threads have follow-up info which changes the landscape, others do not. Someone coming back around and cherry picking only one person who responded to the OP to call out is a little disingenuous.

Edit to add: Nothing I see makes Mader's actions in the shooting incident wrong. For whatever reason he chose to use his brain rathert than his weapon. On the flip side, noting the other LEO did was wrong (IMO) either. He saw a perceived threat and did what he thought he had to do.

Odd that no one seems to be digging in to the files of the guy who shot Williams. Only the one who did not. Regardless, all the previous incidents, accurately reported or not, change my opinion of Mader's choices. And yes, until I read something that makes his actions wrong, I believe thr ACLU was right (on this one).

Last edited by ramzmedic; 13 February 2018 at 17:28.
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Old 13 February 2018, 17:04
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Mader had information from the girlfriend that the gun was unloaded. If he failed to relay that to the backing officers, that's a problem. If he relayed the information, and backing officers still fired, is that a problem?
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Old 13 February 2018, 17:07
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Originally Posted by bobmueller View Post
Mader had information from the girlfriend that the gun was unloaded. If he failed to relay that to the backing officers, that's a problem. If he relayed the information, and backing officers still fired, is that a problem?
Why should he believe the girlfriend? I will always assume the gun is loaded unless I have physically seen otherwise. Those are real games played by real guns. I'm not believing anyone about those types of things....
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Old 13 February 2018, 18:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzmedic View Post
Gavin, I responded to what was posted up to that point man. Some threads have follow-up info which changes the landscape, others do not. Someone coming back around and cherry picking only one person who responded to the OP to call out is a little disingenuous.

Edit to add: Nothing I see makes Mader's actions in the shooting incident wrong. For whatever reason he chose to use his brain rathert than his weapon. On the flip side, noting the other LEO did was wrong (IMO) either. He saw a perceived threat and did what he thought he had to do.

Odd that no one seems to be digging in to the files of the guy who shot Williams. Only the one who did not. Regardless, all the previous incidents, accurately reported or not, change my opinion of Mader's choices. And yes, until I read something that makes his actions wrong, I believe thr ACLU was right (on this one).
You're coloring outside the lines.

I too wanted to go head over hills at first blush, yet simply reading the article I was unable to put it all together. I couldn't support any side except for the cops coming onto the scene and a gun getting raised and the Perp getting shot. All without even needing to read another article.

Maybe you read a different article than I did. Of course I want to support the troop. But Mader didn't give me enough info to support him. He well could have vapor locked. And He was remiss in not knowing that if his back-up showed and the perp raised the weapon the perp was likely getting shot.

There is more than one post in this thread where loose info is being taken as gospel. And even wrong info. Sad.
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Old 13 February 2018, 18:20
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Why should he believe the girlfriend? I will always assume the gun is loaded unless I have physically seen otherwise. Those are real games played by real guns. I'm not believing anyone about those types of things....
^ This.

bobmueller: Would you trust someone that you didn't know saying that the person that had you or your loved ones at gunpoint didn't have any ammo? Screw that. "Always treat every firearm as if it is loaded." applies to other people as well.

I've seen guys freeze on the two-way live fire range. It can happen.

I am siding with the agency firing the guy based on his history.
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Old 13 February 2018, 18:35
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Originally Posted by ramzmedic View Post
Gavin, I responded to what was posted up to that point man. Some threads have follow-up info which changes the landscape, others do not. Someone coming back around and cherry picking only one person who responded to the OP to call out is a little disingenuous.
You made a disparaging statement about law enforcement in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzmedic View Post
Just wow! This is one of the very issues I've had with LE for many years; their tendency to NOT de-escalate a bad situation. Or they refusal to use their brain instead going right to deadly shit. This young man used his brain, stayed calm, and got himself fired.
Other posters kept their statements limited to the officers in this particular situation (that's how you get guys like me to cherry pick you). You were also wrong, because you made that blanket disparaging statement about all the other cops without checking facts or making any attempt to gain any information about that particular fired officer and his performance, diligence, and character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzmedic View Post
Nothing I see makes Mader's actions in the shooting incident wrong. For whatever reason he chose to use his brain rathert than his weapon. On the flip side, noting the other LEO did was wrong (IMO) either. He saw a perceived threat and did what he thought he had to do.
It appears the city agrees with you. They say they didn't fire him for that. The things they did fire him for are a matter of public record, and are serious issues. These are not the sort of issues that are used as an excuse to fire someone. A grand jury would likely indict him for the actions they fired him for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzmedic View Post
Odd that no one seems to be digging in to the files of the guy who shot Williams. Only the one who did not. Regardless, all the previous incidents, accurately reported or not, change my opinion of Mader's choices. And yes, until I read something that makes his actions wrong, I believe thr ACLU was right (on this one).
Not sure what you are missing here. Mader wasn't fired for not shooting. Mader was fired for violating department policy and the law. He also sounds like he was a lazy cop. If you do a little tiny bit of research, you'll see that a whole lot of digging was done into the guy that did shoot. He was cleared.

Keep right on thinking the ACLU was right on this one. Without folks like you around, the ACLU would have been shit out of luck and deservingly bankrupt years ago.

If you still believe I am being disingenuous and cherry picking you, well, it's a free country. Go ahead and believe it.
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