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  #21  
Old 13 February 2018, 19:33
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Whitebean54 Whitebean54 is offline
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Originally Posted by havok88 View Post
I dont think anyone has said they have a problem with this.
It's being inferred because" the girlfriend said the gun was unloaded".

As Agoge said, I can't trust the gun is unloaded until see that it is in fact unloaded.
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  #22  
Old 13 February 2018, 19:48
havok88 havok88 is offline
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Originally Posted by Whitebean54 View Post
It's being inferred because" the girlfriend said the gun was unloaded".

As Agoge said, I can't trust the gun is unloaded until see that it is in fact unloaded.
I guess I just dont understand who you are trying to argue with here.
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  #23  
Old 13 February 2018, 20:07
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Mader had information from the girlfriend that the gun was unloaded. If he failed to relay that to the backing officers, that's a problem. If he relayed the information, and backing officers still fired, is that a problem?
Oh well by all means, holster your guns boys....his girlfriend said the gun was unloaded.

Even if the weapon was found later in court to be unloaded, would be of little relevance to the case as such a thing could not have been determined at the time.

On Domestic Disturbance calls, we do not take chances, nor do we take anyone at their 'word', especially when it comes to Officer safety. Something Mader should have been taught by his FTO, which he seems to have had difficulties with during his tenure at his Department.

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Just wow! This is one of the very issues I've had with LE for many years; their tendency to NOT de-escalate a bad situation. Or they refusal to use their brain instead going right to deadly shit. This young man used his brain, stayed calm, and got himself fired.
Failing to see how an Officer reacting to a suspect raising a gun to him by utilizing Deadly Force means he was refusing to utilize his brain? What should he have done, continue talking and risk being killed? Maybe whip out his OC Spray or attempt to strike him with his baton?

Please advise based on your experience in dealing with these types of Domestic Disturbance incidents what an Officer can do to 'de-escalate' when faced with an armed suspect, raising the weapon towards him?
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  #24  
Old 13 February 2018, 20:22
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Originally Posted by ramzmedic View Post
Someone coming back around and cherry picking only one person who responded to the OP to call out is a little disingenuous.
Look down. That thing you're stepping on, it's your dick. For fucks sake stop pressing down harder.
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  #25  
Old 13 February 2018, 20:43
Gsniper Gsniper is offline
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This is all just speculation to everybody except the 3-4 people involved, why is everybody getting their panties in such a wad?
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  #26  
Old 13 February 2018, 22:16
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Simple, on the street if you point a gun at me Im going to shoot you until I see you are no longer a threat. If one of my guys fails to engage then he will be packing his desk up and heading back to his parent agency very quickly. What we do is much too dangerous to knowingly allow a suspect to point a gun at us. This is a prime example of way too much Hollywood bleeding over into unrealistic and unhealthy LE expectations. And, as is the case 90% of the time the haters chime in, there was more to the termination than just his failure to act.
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  #27  
Old 13 February 2018, 22:32
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Originally Posted by DuckMarshal View Post
And, as is the case 90% of the time the haters chime in, there was more to the termination than just his failure to act.
No, there is never more to the story. All you need to know is included in initial press releases and social media . The only thing Im surprised by in this case (truly shocked) is the lack of cries of racism from the rooftops.
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  #28  
Old 13 February 2018, 22:59
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Originally Posted by havok88 View Post
I dont think anyone has said they have a problem with this.
Not even "Floyd" who called the officers who shot the guy who raised his gun a "coward fear biter"?

I have zero problem criticizing a cop for not shooting someone who raises a pistol. I would hope everyone who does the same would be fired. Oh but his girlfriend says it wasn't loaded! Certainly we should trust our lives that she isn't wrong or lying to try to keep him from getting killed or arrested.
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  #29  
Old 14 February 2018, 10:16
gymrat8541 gymrat8541 is offline
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Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
This is all just speculation to everybody except the 3-4 people involved, why is everybody getting their panties in such a wad?
This! We can all sit here and Monday morning quarterback what we think was right and what we think was wrong about the entire situation. Truth is, none of us were there and it is very easy to sit here and say I would have done this or that. Each situation is different. There are far more experienced individuals than myself on this forum and I respect and value everyones decision but you cant go making blanket statements about LEO's or any other group. Just my $.02 and not intended to start a conflict.
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  #30  
Old 14 February 2018, 10:24
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I am not going to second guess either officers' decision during the event because I wasn't there (and honestly, I see validity in both officers' actions based on what they each perceived at the time). There seems to be a big point that everyone here is missing though. Officer Mader was described as a probationary officer. Last time I checked, just about every LEA in America has a probationary period in which a new officer can be terminated for just about any reason without recourse. That is a binding contractual agreement between the agency and the employee upon hiring. Seems to me, the agency exercised their rights under that agreement and the other party (officer Mader) got but hurt over the decision. Right, wrong, or indifferent, policing is a hugely political field of endeavor and you need to know and accept that fact going in. My take is that officer Mader did not.

x/S
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  #31  
Old 14 February 2018, 10:27
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My understanding of what I read is that the GF relayed to the 911 operator that the gun wasn't loaded. That info was never relayed to Mader. Not that it should or could have made any difference whatsoever to the officers on the scene, but from the report it would seem that Mader had no idea that the gun wasn't loaded.
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  #32  
Old 14 February 2018, 10:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havok88 View Post
I guess I just dont understand who you are trying to argue with here.
Pretty sure that was in reference to the "coward fear biter" statement by Floyd. I am in 100% agreement with the LEOs here. If you point a gun at me you better be on the trigger because I certainly will be.

Curious....for those of you who are being so critical of LE in this thread....how many of you would allow someone to point a weapon at you under these same circumstances and would not shoot?

Step up. What if it is your life, rather than some cop you never met?

Because, in my opinion, if you can honestly say that you wouldn't shoot the guy, you're a fucking idiot.
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  #33  
Old 14 February 2018, 10:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
My understanding of what I read is that the GF relayed to the 911 operator that the gun wasn't loaded. That info was never relayed to Mader. Not that it should or could have made any difference whatsoever to the officers on the scene, but from the report it would seem that Mader had no idea that the gun wasn't loaded.
Thats the way I understood it too. It's a *feel-good* kinda info to those outside the situation. But in my mind doesn't make me warm and fuzzy.
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  #34  
Old 14 February 2018, 11:13
havok88 havok88 is offline
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Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
Not even "Floyd" who called the officers who shot the guy who raised his gun a "coward fear biter"?

I have zero problem criticizing a cop for not shooting someone who raises a pistol. I would hope everyone who does the same would be fired. Oh but his girlfriend says it wasn't loaded! Certainly we should trust our lives that she isn't wrong or lying to try to keep him from getting killed or arrested.
Fair enough. I guess I didnt see that the first time I read through.
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  #35  
Old 14 February 2018, 11:40
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There is always the "why don't cops hold other cops accountable" in every "misconduct" thread that is started. Like clock work. Here we have an agency doing just that with a guy who wants to negotiate with a gun in play, on top of a bunch of other shit, like opening a car to place a parking ticket in....

The officer calling him a coward was wrong. He should have done it to his face and then wipped his fucking ass behind the station house. This very easily could have been another "RIP" thread for him or one of the responding officers, complete with the usual 15-20 people commenting RIP and another 100 or so "viewing" it.

This whole thing is ironic for me: an officer I know was shot in the face through his windshield about 3 days ago. "Man with a gun acting erratic". The suspect didn't give him the courtesy of trying to talk him down.
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  #36  
Old 14 February 2018, 12:10
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CPTAUSRET CPTAUSRET is offline
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I am not a cop.

If I was, anyone pointing a gun at me or my partner would get shot! My partner responds the same way, or I look for a new partner.

All weapons are loaded, until you yourself clear them!
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  #37  
Old 14 February 2018, 12:22
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Let me reiterate that the only parties that believe Mader was fired for not shooting someone are Mader and the ACLU. He was not fired for failing to shoot anyone. He was fired for violating the 4th Amd during a traffic stop, for failure to investigate a suspicious death with anything resembling due diligence, and other shoddy performance. I don't understand why folks keep going back and forth about the shooting.
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  #38  
Old 14 February 2018, 12:46
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Odd, pretty sure the girlfriend likely also said hes a good guy and the neighbors said he was nice and this is all not like him. If they had asked the suspect why he was doing this he probably would have said he wasnt doing anything - then everyone could have gone home.
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  #39  
Old 14 February 2018, 12:56
havok88 havok88 is offline
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Let me reiterate that the only parties that believe Mader was fired for not shooting someone are Mader and the ACLU. He was not fired for failing to shoot anyone. He was fired for violating the 4th Amd during a traffic stop, for failure to investigate a suspicious death with anything resembling due diligence, and other shoddy performance. I don't understand why folks keep going back and forth about the shooting.
The article I quoted said there were 3 different incidents. It named 2, the ones you mentioned, and thats it. So what was the third? This shooting? Id really like to know more about this "suspicious death", although obviously Im not familiar with their department policies to know if he violated them. But what was stated in the paragraph I quoted is strange.
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  #40  
Old 14 February 2018, 13:20
bobmueller bobmueller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
My understanding of what I read is that the GF relayed to the 911 operator that the gun wasn't loaded. That info was never relayed to Mader. Not that it should or could have made any difference whatsoever to the officers on the scene, but from the report it would seem that Mader had no idea that the gun wasn't loaded.
That's new information for me. I stand corrected.
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