SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > Book Reviews

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13 March 2018, 19:05
DaveP DaveP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 249
After Undaunted Courage, what?

Just finishing Steven Ambrose's excellent book, which has been mentioned here many times, and found it well-paced, linear, and just detailed enough about the politics, Indian relations, and trade issues to inform the story without overwhelming this non-history dude.

I've ordered beater paperback copies of Only One Man Died (med stuff from the expedition) and Lewis and Clark: Pioneering Naturalists. Looking for other suggestions. What did you read after, or what brought you to this book?

Henry Adams' "Hx of the US in the admin of T. Jefferson" sounds, uh....deep. Anybody read this in conjunction with Courage?
How about the Journals?
Other S. Ambrose books that are must-reads?

TIA.
DaveP
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13 March 2018, 20:22
UGA_11B UGA_11B is offline
RIP Cass and SOTB
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,242
Citizen Soldiers.
Into the Wild Blue.
Band of Brothers.
The Victors.
D-Day.

All great ww2 history reads.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14 March 2018, 06:51
DaveP DaveP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 249
^
Embarrassing to admit I've not read even Citizen Soldiers or BoB yet, and had not heard of Into the Wild Blue.
Thanks, UGA.

The logistics of the expedition alone are boggling, planning for 2-3 years' march, unknown transport, almost last-minute changes in TO&E, comms measured in weeks or months; setting out on the return leg with 80% of the supplies expended (cached gear notwithstanding). Confidence, hubris, balls - whatever, Lewis had it.

Digging into the airgun carried on the trip:
http://www.beemans.net/Lewis%20&%20Clark%20Airgun.htm
https://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/2...discover-west/
http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/dai...oni-air-rifle/

DaveP
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14 March 2018, 07:11
Mingo Kane's Avatar
Mingo Kane Mingo Kane is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,434
It was like going to the moon...two of my ancestors were on the trip--Joseph and Reuben Fields
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14 March 2018, 07:39
DaveP DaveP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 249
^
Friggin' yep. No guarantees, might not return; Army pay and a bit of land if you do. You in?

The Field brothers: "Two of the most active and enterprising young men who accompanied us". Good stock, Mingo.

DaveP
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14 March 2018, 12:51
Mingo Kane's Avatar
Mingo Kane Mingo Kane is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,434
I read their journals online...truly amazing men (The Fields brothers didn't have good luck with Grizzly bears, but did account for the only righteous kill), and if not for a woman, they wouldn't have made it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14 March 2018, 13:30
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is online now
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,888
A couple of the good historical non-fictions reads I have finished lately:

Killers of the Flower Moon, David Grann
Public Enemies, Brian Burrough
Texas Ranger: The Epic Life of Frank Hamer, John Boessenecker
__________________
Life’s barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14 March 2018, 17:52
DaveP DaveP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 249
I started reading Killers while in a bad headspace and found it (or me) too depressing; almost unanimously positive reviews and your recommendation convince me to revisit.

Frank Hamer was a badass. I'll gladly look into that book.
Thanks.
DaveP
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14 March 2018, 20:30
Gray Rhyno's Avatar
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NoVa
Posts: 9,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Public Enemies, Brian Burrough
If you liked Public Enemies, check out Days of Rage also by Burrough. It kind of bookends the story.
__________________
"The most HSLD stuff ever taught was the basics. So-called 'advanced training' is often no more than the very fluid and expert application of those basic skills." - SOTB
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15 March 2018, 08:57
Believeraz's Avatar
Believeraz Believeraz is offline
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tilting at Windmills
Posts: 2,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
If you liked Public Enemies, check out Days of Rage also by Burrough. It kind of bookends the story.
Another vote for Days of Rage.
__________________
_________________

"Butch up, prom queen"
-Wench
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 16 March 2018, 05:32
AustinPT AustinPT is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 329
"Go Down Together" by Jeff Guinn would also go nicely with Public Enemies. Very well written
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19 March 2018, 17:33
TennesseeDave's Avatar
TennesseeDave TennesseeDave is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Volunteer State
Posts: 1,182
Meriwether by David Niven

Historical fiction that does well getting into the psyche of Meriwether Lewis. It also chronicles his life after their adventure out west until his death. I found it informative and entertaining.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 20 March 2018, 06:28
DaveP DaveP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 249
Yeah, things got a bit weird at the end of UC, although alluded to through the expedition as large gaps in entries from Lewis. Ambrose suggested either an agreed-on segregation in writing responsibility between Lewis and Clark, or periods of depression keeping Lewis from daily note-keeping, requiring him to catch up. One blank period was almost a year, I think.
He also seemed to shut down shortly after the return and his assignment as governor (?) of the new territory re: getting the journals ready for publication.

Into a small volume called Meriwether Lewis: Naturalist about his pre-trip training by Jefferson and others and the breadth of his observations. Amazing to see how much the expedition contributed to the body of knowledge of the continent's biology/horticulture/geology and (referenced in Courage), how much this informed the politics and planning for expansion, settlement, granting of trading rights, etc.

DaveP
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20 March 2018, 13:05
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
Confronting the Reckoning
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Old North West
Posts: 1,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
Just finishing Steven Ambrose's excellent book, which has been mentioned here many times, and found it well-paced, linear, and just detailed enough about the politics, Indian relations, and trade issues to inform the story without overwhelming this non-history dude.

I've ordered beater paperback copies of Only One Man Died (med stuff from the expedition) and Lewis and Clark: Pioneering Naturalists. Looking for other suggestions. What did you read after, or what brought you to this book?

Henry Adams' "Hx of the US in the admin of T. Jefferson" sounds, uh....deep. Anybody read this in conjunction with Courage?
How about the Journals?
Other S. Ambrose books that are must-reads?

TIA.
DaveP
Dave,
To get to your original question, Ambrose books are relatively easy reads because he did such a good job in figuring out how to do the prose for anyone to read.

If you get the Adams two volume set, I would do so from the library first to see if you like them. It is largely a politico-military-diplomatic history of the runup to the War of 1812. It is a beautifully written account by someone who had a personal interest in telling the history of his father and grand father---and their rivals. The first five chapters or so -- the first 100 pages -- tell what young America was like in the time of Lewis and Clark. I use part of the first chapter to explain to students how hard it was to move around the country--something we take for granted when we can drive a highway across mountains so easily today.

If you like Ambrose, and read his D-Day related books (Band of Brothers, but the others too), then I would encourage you to follow them up with John Keegan's Six Armies in Normandy, a lively readable account that looks at the campaign from a larger multinational perspective (know much about the Poles in Normandy?)

Hope these help.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 21 March 2018, 12:18
DaveP DaveP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 249
[QUOTEHope these help. ][/QUOTE]

Outstanding.
Adams' book(s) sound more accessible than I was expecting, and A'zon's got a reasonable used softcover listed.
Also appreciate the Keegan suggestion.

Thanks.
DaveP
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 21 March 2018, 17:03
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
Confronting the Reckoning
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Old North West
Posts: 1,323
I always recommend Bookfinder if you want used books. It is a metasearch engine for used book search engines, and so searches not just Amazon but also Abe books and the others, quite rapidly.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20 April 2018, 19:35
DaveP DaveP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 249
Only One Man Died was sort of a bust, poorly written and mostly relied on reprinting sections of the journal entries without much to flesh out current med practices of the time, etc.

Meriwether Lewis: Naturalist and Lewis and Clark: Pioneering Naturalists are both dense but good if you're a bio/botany/forestry dork, or for their hunting/trapping information.

Once I get my fill of some trash reading, it's on to Ambrose, Grann (trying Killers again) and other suggestions from you good folks.
Thanks again.
DaveP
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 23:20.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2018