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  #81  
Old 11 September 2019, 10:15
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Then every student would borrow the maximum and bankrupt out as soon as they graduated, the banks would quit loaning money, and the whole system would collapse. Can't have that happen...
I want to see headlines for months of bankers jumping out of 50-story buildings personally, so I don't see this as a negative at all.

Regardless, and maybe my on-the-spectrum problem is showing because I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but if your premise was true we'd see people taking out loans to the max and just declaring bankruptcy all the time. And I mean everyone, not just those people who are deadbeats. Plus, fuck the schools anyway.

I seriously have to marvel at the system which begins by brainwashing someone since birth that they have to go to college, having nearly every aspect of their life (school counselors, TV sitcoms, radio ads, magazine and news broadcasts, etc) pushing towards that destination. Having them then get to the communist indoctrination camp that IS college. And then to top it all off, they enslave themselves into perpetual servitude by being tricked into taking-on never ending Usurious debt amounts in order to fund that coveted leftist bullshit degree. Which, in the biggest irony of all, is quickly becoming more and more pointless anyway because all the jobs are going to H1B third-worlders (or just being shipped offshore completely) who exist to serve as wage-suppressing slave chattel to the globalist mega-conglomerates. Then, after having their savings and quality of life perpetually decrease for decades, die in poverty leaving nothing but almost-imperceptibly worse conditions for their, if they're lucky, children to grow up in. Who, by the way --- also are then told by their same wage-slave parents from birth that they'll be nothing but abysmal failures if they don't go to college. Cycle complete.
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  #82  
Old 11 September 2019, 10:18
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The true culprit is the shear cost. Elizabeth Warren made over $350k to teach a minimal course load at Harvard Law. Her husband, who also works there, makes $400k. I don't begrudge them for getting what they can. Free markets and all. But that is almost $800k for just two professors.

Until they address the costs nothing will change.

The only proposed solutions: The G pays off everyones loans.
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Last edited by Macka; 11 September 2019 at 10:46.
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  #83  
Old 11 September 2019, 10:32
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Originally Posted by Macka View Post
The true culprit is the shear cost. Elizabeth Warren made over $350k to teach a minimal could at Harvard Law. Her husband, who also works there, makes $400k. I don;t begrudge them for getting what they can. Free markets and all. But that is almost $800k for just two professors.

Until they address the costs nothing will change.

The only proposed solutions: The G pays off everyones loans.
The costs are what they are because the education system is linked to the .gov.

.Gov brainwashed people into believing that they need to be indoctrinated via college (perhaps with good intention to raise standards of living). And in doing so, they made the money to pay for it easy.

Easy money made it even easier for universities to raise their prices. One might even be able to speculate a conspiracy between higher education and .gov. Perhaps a read of the history of the costs of education since the inception of the DoE would be interesting.
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  #84  
Old 11 September 2019, 11:00
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Originally Posted by chokeu2 View Post
The costs are what they are because the education system is linked to the .gov.

.Gov brainwashed people into believing that they need to be indoctrinated via college (perhaps with good intention to raise standards of living). And in doing so, they made the money to pay for it easy.

Easy money made it even easier for universities to raise their prices. One might even be able to speculate a conspiracy between higher education and .gov. Perhaps a read of the history of the costs of education since the inception of the DoE would be interesting.
Linked to the .gov AND the student loan industry.

My oldest just finished her graduate degree. Luckily she pursued a field where she was in demand and was able to get an entry level job. In a year she'll be fully licensed and will be able to make a very good living.

We told both daughters that if they went to a state school here in MA we could mostly pay tuition/housing. If they lived at home they wold be debt free. We also told them we would pay no more that state tuition and they would be on the hook for the rest and if they went to grad school that's on them.

My oldest went to a good school in a selective 5 year program for Speech (300 applicants for 25 spots) and had a 40% scholarship for undergrad (tuition/housing). My youngest went to a private college for a year but didn't like it. She did well but wasn't a fan of dorm life. She now lives at home, works, and commutes to one of the state universities and is doing fantastic. We cover all costs.

It's important to have that conversation with your kids about debt and loans.

It's also important to let kids know they don't have to go to these high priced schools, or go to school at all. It's okay to be an electrician or plumber or whatever.
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  #85  
Old 11 September 2019, 12:23
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You said a key word but missed the target, a conversation about debt. Kids, and most adults need more financial IQ. This has to be self taught because schools donít do it. Understanding debt, investment instruments, and a plethora of other topics must is the responsibility of everyone. Learning the pitfalls of finance as they happen to you is not a good way idea. It took me 30 some off years to get smart on this stuff, I hope other people can learn from my mistake and start earlier.
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  #86  
Old 11 September 2019, 13:51
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You said a key word but missed the target, a conversation about debt. Kids, and most adults need more financial IQ. This has to be self taught because schools donít do it. Understanding debt, investment instruments, and a plethora of other topics must is the responsibility of everyone. Learning the pitfalls of finance as they happen to you is not a good way idea. It took me 30 some off years to get smart on this stuff, I hope other people can learn from my mistake and start earlier.
Bingo.

Dad grew up in the depression. I wasn't out of diapers long before he started teaching me about money including lessons about living below your means, never carry a balance on credit cards, get your debt paid off asap, save as much as you can as fast as you can, get to a point where you can afford to pay cash for big ticket items, don't try to keep up with the Jones', learn to do without status symbols, don't buy much more than what you really need, be frugal (shop for the best deal) but not cheap, etc.

Lessons learned at his knee have served me well.
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  #87  
Old 11 September 2019, 14:02
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And a degree isn't as necessary as some would have you believe. You can make a good living off of a trade - more so now that most believe they have to have a degree and the number of good tradesmen are dwindling.
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  #88  
Old 11 September 2019, 14:16
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Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
There's is no real solution to this other than getting rid of the bankruptcy subsidy and the almost diminishment of Student loans as a product for everything but select degrees and the downward price pressure on all schools.
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Can you include student loans in a BK? My memory is you could not, at least not the kind of loans I had.
No, you currently cannot bankrupt out of student loans, hence my linking my comment to Steve83's comment on "getting rid of the bankruptcy subsidy".
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Regardless, and maybe my on-the-spectrum problem is showing because I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but if your premise was true we'd see people taking out loans to the max and just declaring bankruptcy all the time. And I mean everyone, not just those people who are deadbeats. Plus, fuck the schools anyway.
I'm more angry than sarcastic. People my age (50+) aren't going to bankrupt out of random loans because I have a lot riding on my credit score (for better or worse). But if I was 22, I could care less about my credit score if it meant I could unload $200,000 worth of student loan debt as soon as I graduated. I could borrow every cent of my college costs from private banks, decalre bankruptcy to get out from under it, live on bare bones (used cars bought with cash, rent apartments, etc) for seven years, then as I'm approaching 30, I'd be GTG. Without the bankruptcy, I would barely be paying principal on that original $200,000. This is why the deal the banks, schools, and governments worked out doesn't allow anyone to bankrupt out of student loans.
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Originally Posted by Macka View Post
The true culprit is the shear cost. Elizabeth Warren made over $350k to teach a minimal course load at Harvard Law. Her husband, who also works there, makes $400k. I don't begrudge them for getting what they can. Free markets and all. But that is almost $800k for just two professors.
But it isn't a free market; it's all propped up by the student loan system. The schools don't have to charge a reasonable tuition; they just tell the students to borrow more money. How on God's green earth is a bachelor's degree from Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania worth $200,000? It's not, but they can charge that because the banks loan money willy nilly.
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The only proposed solutions: The G pays off everyones loans.
You mean the taxpayers (or the Chinese) pay off everyone's loans.
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Originally Posted by Macka View Post
It's important to have that conversation with your kids about debt and loans.
And this is part of why I'm so angry/frustrated with the system. The people least able to understand all the underlying issues and problems with the debt involved with student loans (students and parents) take 100% of the risk and those best able to understand what's going on (the banks and the schools) take zero risk.
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  #89  
Old 11 September 2019, 14:41
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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So, again, the problem is the predatory industries of banking and academia -- made possible by a complicit govt. All of which are populated by people who go to the same parties and fundraisers. Go on vacation together. Who's kids marry each other. Basically are all friends with one another. "It's a big club, and you ain't in it!" --- George Carlin

The financial literacy issue is a whole other issue. As described in the movie "The Big Short", the financial system is purposefully made as unecessarily complicated as humanly possible at all levels. Ridiculously pedantic and nebulous terms/phrases. Sure, it's easy to tell a kid to save his lunch money and don't blow his savings on comic books and soda -- but what parent knows enough about financial issues enough to have warned their kid about ninja loans and variable rate mortgages? Or that under the new Dodd-Frank Act the money they "save" isn't theirs legally anymore or that the FDIC has them at the bottom of the list for repayment (or that they don't even have near the funding to actually repay them). Or bail-ins? Or that their retirement fund is being pillaged by "bespoke tranche opportunities"? Or that the company they work for in tje future may be leveraged to the gills by low interest stock buybacks. Bond market yield curve inversions. Futures and speculation. Bank liquidity and credit system collapse dangers. All of which are designed to literally steal people's money and move it to the upper .0001% Just like the govt subsidized student loans scams.

The bankers and those who help them with their schemes are the enemies of all humanity. They're the original globalists and vampire squids of western civilization.
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  #90  
Old 11 September 2019, 15:19
Steve83 Steve83 is offline
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^You don't need to go down the rabbit hole on this one.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loan...ent-loan-debt/

Like the last time when I brought this up with Grey:

Most student loans — about 92%, according to a December 2018 report by MeasureOne, an academic data firm — are owned by the U.S. Department of Education.

Total federal student loan borrowers: 43 million.
Total outstanding federal student loan debt: $1.4 trillion.

It's just the availability of loans means more people don't budget for the school nor do they have to be price sensitive.

Less price sensitive means the school doesn't control its costs and the faculty size inflates.

As a result, tuition goes up, so do the loan balances.

It's all pretty straightforward.
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  #91  
Old 11 September 2019, 16:08
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Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
^You don't need to go down the rabbit hole on this one.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loan...ent-loan-debt/

Like the last time when I brought this up with Grey:

Most student loans — about 92%, according to a December 2018 report by MeasureOne, an academic data firm — are owned by the U.S. Department of Education.

Total federal student loan borrowers: 43 million.
Total outstanding federal student loan debt: $1.4 trillion.
I'm not sure what's so crazy about changing the student debt-paradigm. Is it the idea of government paying it off or the fact that it has grown to that epic proportion?

We have spent more on a lot of things that generated a whole lot less ROI for the country.

The fact that education in the US costs an absurd amount of money doesn't seem to bother most folks. Even people who couldn't afford to send their kids to Harvard, which sits on a $37 BILLION endowment, virulently oppose the idea because it didn't come from their politician.

We're terminally fucked as a country.
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  #92  
Old 11 September 2019, 16:16
Steve83 Steve83 is offline
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I'm not sure what's so crazy about changing the student debt-paradigm. Is it the idea of government paying it off or the fact that it has grown to that epic proportion?

We have spent more on a lot of things that generated a whole lot less ROI for the country.

The fact that education in the US costs an absurd amount of money doesn't seem to bother most folks. Even people who couldn't afford to send their kids to Harvard, which sits on a $37 BILLION endowment, virulently oppose the idea because it didn't come from their politician.

We're terminally fucked as a country.
I'm not sure what you mean.

I think that, all things considered, there can be some sort of new payment plan that elongates the payments so far into the future that the payments don't screw people over can probably be hashed out.

As long as the student loan programs, bankruptcy subsidy and all other items are wiped out.
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  #93  
Old 11 September 2019, 16:20
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With the sheer volume of discussion in this very thread, it is still surprising to see that people are overlooking the cancer that's even greater than the easy access to federal student loans.

That is the fact that the .gov has enabled the banks to be predatory, and heap on compound interest at rates that will never, ever be paid off, and they're refusing to validate the debts due to the interest they've been charging egregiously. THAT, is the dead horse that I'm beating here. And THAT is the student loan crisis. It is more insidious, and more dangerous than the easy access to those loans, because it completely wrecks the legal exchange of borrow and repayment that most people engage in, thanks to the reality that these lenders to not acknowledge the payments to reduce balances, and then heap on compound interest at criminally predatory interest rates.

Ya'll are spot on with the rest of this stuff, but seemingly ignoring the real devil in the details. Until the American public understands this, the problem is only going to get larger, because without knowing that the .gov and the banks themselves are violating the t's and c's with impunity, then no one is going to stop or think twice about getting .gov backed loans.
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  #94  
Old 11 September 2019, 16:21
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I'm not sure what you mean.

I think that, all things considered, there can be some sort of new payment plan that elongates the payments so far into the future that the payments don't screw people over can probably be hashed out.

As long as the student loan programs, bankruptcy subsidy and all other items are wiped out.
NO, there cannot be. Read my previous post. THAT is why it'll never happen. It can't.
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  #95  
Old 11 September 2019, 16:38
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With the sheer volume of discussion in this very thread, it is still surprising to see that people are overlooking the cancer that's even greater than the easy access to federal student loans.

That is the fact that the .gov has enabled the banks to be predatory.
What banks?
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  #96  
Old 11 September 2019, 18:33
Steve509 Steve509 is offline
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What banks?
I'm assuming he meant the loans the banks processed. For example, at least some of my loans originated at Boatmen's Bank in Missouri but they didn't stay there very long.
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  #97  
Old 11 September 2019, 18:43
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Bingo.

Dad grew up in the depression. I wasn't out of diapers long before he started teaching me about money including lessons about living below your means, never carry a balance on credit cards, get your debt paid off asap, save as much as you can as fast as you can, get to a point where you can afford to pay cash for big ticket items, don't try to keep up with the Jones', learn to do without status symbols, don't buy much more than what you really need, be frugal (shop for the best deal) but not cheap, etc.

Lessons learned at his knee have served me well.
I was also taught that lesson a long time ago. Still use it today, Some of my grandkids will ask or tell me you need to buy this or that. I will tell the no cost to much, just because they have one & in hock up the yang, yang as I like to say. Two credit cards for emergency. This is my way of looking at things if you have more than 3 Credit cards that one to many. Just an 75 year old Vet talking.

Last edited by wildman43; 11 September 2019 at 18:43. Reason: wording
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  #98  
Old 11 September 2019, 18:45
Steve83 Steve83 is offline
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I'm assuming he meant the loans the banks processed. For example, at least some of my loans originated at Boatmen's Bank in Missouri but they didn't stay there very long.
You mean it got securitized into a SLAB.

Then it was a private loan. Did you get it before 2011?
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Old 11 September 2019, 18:50
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Their was an article out the other day from congress that talk about the Student loan debt. I had it but can't find it. Did anyone else happen to see & read it?

Last edited by wildman43; 11 September 2019 at 18:51. Reason: wording
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  #100  
Old 11 September 2019, 19:00
Steve509 Steve509 is offline
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You mean it got securitized into a SLAB.

Then it was a private loan. Did you get it before 2011?
Way before 2011. Pre-internet days.

None of my loans were private loans. And I had different kinds of loans. One type was/is called a HEAL loan. It was one of the HEAL loans that was lost in the shuffle and later, essentially excused.
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