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  #61  
Old 3 September 2003, 15:45
Bell Bell is offline
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Thanks.

Will anyone ever know the real story?

While reading Haney's book I could almost see two CIA officers sitting in Washington making a bet on who had the best operator and setting up a "one on one". Wonder who lost the bet?

Fucking secrets. Sucks.

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  #62  
Old 3 September 2003, 16:24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bell
While reading Haney's book I could almost see two CIA officers sitting in Washington making a bet on who had the best operator and setting up a "one on one". Wonder who lost the bet?
That the truth will likely never be known to the public does, indeed, suck. Regardless of that fact, your quote above is a pretty fucked up thing to say.
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  #63  
Old 3 September 2003, 16:29
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That's how I read it in Haney's book. I thought it was fucked up too. Especially the part about the Vietnam squads. Lot's of things fucked up about our operations. The operations are good. The individuals involved sometimes aren't. That's the secrets that piss me off. Rogue's. They don't belong there.

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  #64  
Old 3 September 2003, 20:37
Gulf Yankee Gulf Yankee is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amato
so what if he didn't get permission by DOD? what could happen?
Does the name Richard Welch mean anything to you?

OK, then how about Philip Agee?

Look those two names up and then ask again what can happen when an unauthorized book divulging classified information gets published.
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  #65  
Old 3 September 2003, 20:41
Gulf Yankee Gulf Yankee is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sneaky SF Dude
Cap was skids in the grass before you were born.
Hell, Terry was skids in the grass when I was still in diapers. And I am hitting middle age
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  #66  
Old 3 September 2003, 21:38
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y'all are welcome.

What I thought was interesting was CSM Haney's refusal to accept the fact that the guy had joined the communists in Nicarauga. I am willing to accept the family's story that he went home and fell for the Cuban B.S.

I also found it interesting that his son is pissed at dad for going (and the government for sending him) to Honduras.

The operator comments are also telling, criticised him for certain aspects of the book.

Still enjoyed reading it though.
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  #67  
Old 3 September 2003, 22:53
MACVSOG CCC RTNY MACVSOG CCC RTNY is offline
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Well folks, at the end of this month I'll be attending SOAR XXVII in Vegas and quite a few of my friends were "Founding Members". It will be real curious if Haney himself shows up. He is not a member of the SOA (Special Operations Association), but that really dosen't mean anything.

As for Walt Shumate, he and I go back to CCC in Kontum RVN ('70-'71). He used to give me a rightious case about my "derilict moustache" because I wore it a' la Fu Manchu. So in 92 I trained it up into a Handlebar and when I entered the Hospitality Suite at SOAR, Walt spied me, got up, crossed the room and gave me a hug. He was beaming !! He also was bald as a Cue with only his eyebrows and his Handlebar. 6 months of chemo and I didn't even know about it. Later some of the guys from Bragg came up and asked what I had done to cheer him up like that. I said simple, my Moustache is now setting up "Proper" after Walt's many years of requests. And I think you know where Walt's 'stache is.

I still wear it that way today, in memory of Walt.

If Haney shows up, I promise I will not be bashful.

I have not read the book and will attempt to get it in before I go.
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Last edited by MACVSOG CCC RTNY; 3 September 2003 at 22:57.
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  #68  
Old 4 September 2003, 22:27
Cazador 01 Cazador 01 is offline
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Succumbing to the Dark Side of the Force can be Deadly!

Fortunately I did a word search before posting the Baez article today. Switchings sides has it's distinct disadvantages.

It is a shame that Taliban/Al Qaeda Johnny was not so lucky!

Cazador

Last edited by Cazador 01; 4 September 2003 at 22:56.
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  #69  
Old 7 September 2003, 22:53
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Do the feelings about Haney extend to everyone from the Spec Ops community who writes books? I ask because I recently received the 2 SOG books by John Plaster as a birthday gift. I thought the stories were important to hear especially considering the number of MoH recepients who took part in those various operations.
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  #70  
Old 8 September 2003, 09:00
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Maj. Plaster's books are very much accepted within the SpecOps community. The Major waited for a declassification in regards to SOG ops and thus did not violate anything. Both of his books involved fellow SOG operators with them contributing stories for the first book and their personal photos for the second. They are both excellent books, I might add.

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  #71  
Old 8 September 2003, 11:01
Sneaky SF Dude Sneaky SF Dude is offline
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I have them both, I thought they were excellent.
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  #72  
Old 8 September 2003, 23:40
MACVSOG CCC RTNY MACVSOG CCC RTNY is offline
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As a sidenote to this thread, a few of my pictures are in the Photo History. John and I were at CCC at the same time, he as a Covey Rider and myself Running the Ground in Recon Company.

Yes, Plaster is a "Real Deal" and thought quite highly of in the community (also a close personal friend) !!! In fact it was because of his research and defence during the "Operation Tailwind" accusations at CNN/Time Warner, that brought about the Presidential Unit Citation being awarded to SOG in April 2001. He actually wrote the Official Citation and the DOA did not change one word.

Any particular/specific questions please feel free to either PM or post in the open.
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  #73  
Old 9 September 2003, 12:12
Sneaky SF Dude Sneaky SF Dude is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MACVSOG CCC RTNY
As a sidenote to this thread, a few of my pictures are in the Photo History. John and I were at CCC at the same time, he as a Covey Rider and myself Running the Ground in Recon Company.

Yes, Plaster is a "Real Deal" and thought quite highly of in the community (also a close personal friend) !!! In fact it was because of his research and defence during the "Operation Tailwind" accusations at CNN/Time Warner, that brought about the Presidential Unit Citation being awarded to SOG in April 2001. He actually wrote the Official Citation and the DOA did not change one word.

Any particular/specific questions please feel free to either PM or post in the open.
1-0,
What pages are you on again?
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Go away. Give yourself some peace. - Cass 12/03

The US Constitution is not a suicide pact.

If you miss your ex frequently, consider better optics for your rifle.

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  #74  
Old 9 September 2003, 12:32
MACVSOG CCC RTNY MACVSOG CCC RTNY is offline
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Both of my copies are loaned out, but the Cover page for the Weapons Section is a negative print of some B-40 rounds that I modified, and on back into that section is a positive print with an explanation (and they were not 10 penny nails, they were Flechetes). There is also a Team Pic and a pic of our Team Patch (My Avatar) a couple of pages back. I think that it's somewhere around pg 150-154 or somewhere there abouts.

Also, a friend of mine has Identified the inside main cover photo as being RTNY and not RT Maryland as stated.
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  #75  
Old 9 September 2003, 12:38
Sneaky SF Dude Sneaky SF Dude is offline
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Got it. Rounds on 155, Team pic and patch 156.

Studly looking team. Love the "WTF" look on the Black dude front row middle. He looks like one of the little people farted - LOL.
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If you miss your ex frequently, consider better optics for your rifle.

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  #76  
Old 9 September 2003, 15:13
MACVSOG CCC RTNY MACVSOG CCC RTNY is offline
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Yea, I don't remember what the look was all about, but that is Larry's You Rude, Crude, and Uncouth Bastages look. I'm the white guy closest to the end and that mortar was the subject of my, there I was story in APO & TR. Notice the mini-masks and Stabo Rigs ?
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  #77  
Old 9 September 2003, 15:27
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Roguish Lawyer Roguish Lawyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MACVSOG CCC RTNY
As a sidenote to this thread, a few of my pictures are in the Photo History. John and I were at CCC at the same time, he as a Covey Rider and myself Running the Ground in Recon Company.

Yes, Plaster is a "Real Deal" and thought quite highly of in the community (also a close personal friend) !!! In fact it was because of his research and defence during the "Operation Tailwind" accusations at CNN/Time Warner, that brought about the Presidential Unit Citation being awarded to SOG in April 2001. He actually wrote the Official Citation and the DOA did not change one word.

Any particular/specific questions please feel free to either PM or post in the open.
SOG is one of my all-time favorites. What amazing stories! What's the other book by Plaster? (Actually, I'll check Amazon and post a link shortly after purchasing it!)
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  #78  
Old 9 September 2003, 15:33
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Roguish Lawyer Roguish Lawyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
What's the other book by Plaster? (Actually, I'll check Amazon and post a link shortly after purchasing it!)
Photo history of SOG (expensive):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Ultimate sniper (nonfiction training manual):

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Forthcoming May 2004:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&st=books

Is this photo history the "other" book people have referred to?
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  #79  
Old 9 September 2003, 15:40
MACVSOG CCC RTNY MACVSOG CCC RTNY is offline
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Yes and it is published by Paladin Press out of Colarado. It is expensive, but there are over 700 photos in it. Since SOG was a "Black Op" all or most of the "Official Records/Photos etc" were destroyed. John put this book together from the private collections of a bunch of us. I must have signed 20+ copies at the PUC Ceremony. One of my friends was signing one and he asked me if my pic was in it and when I said yes, a line formed up on the two of us. It was unreal.
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  #80  
Old 9 September 2003, 17:46
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There was a SOG patch mentioned in the Plaster book that was designed on a cocktail napkin. Is it the one in your avatar, or is it the skull and beret one (CCC,CCN,CCS) that I've seen in various books?
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