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Old 27 January 2016, 01:53
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Jeeps back to the battlefield?

I like it. Think would serve a needed niche. Kind of back to the old days as well.


http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2016/...FOXNews.com%29
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Old 27 January 2016, 04:31
offcamber offcamber is offline
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The JK would need a lot of beefing up to make it reliable enough for the kind of use you guys would need. I love my JK, but i've had to do a lot of work on the drivetrain and suspension to make it work for what I do and I don't ever have to worry about running from bad guys...
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Old 27 January 2016, 05:05
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The Marines have been using the poorly named "Growler" for years now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growler_(vehicle)

USMC took a beating on this thing, it's truly an indictment of our procurement system that a stupid simple jeep costs $200K+. The fact that it's already being shopped for replacement doesn't look too good either. S/F....Ken M
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Old 27 January 2016, 08:50
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Originally Posted by offcamber View Post
The JK would need a lot of beefing up to make it reliable enough for the kind of use you guys would need. I love my JK, but i've had to do a lot of work on the drivetrain and suspension to make it work for what I do and I don't ever have to worry about running from bad guys...
I don't know about that. I have had two Rubicons in the past, and they held up pretty damn well. Now, the most time I have spent behind the wheels, in some very rough terrain and driving the hell out of, have been Toyota Hiluxes and Ford Rangers. They both held up well. A Jeep "Rubicon" is built even more rugged than a Ford Ranger, and would fare better IMHO.

Rapid deployment for airfield seizures, quick transport of small teams over dirt roads in remote areas, easier to bring to the location (due to weight and size). Back in the day, there were a lot of stock Toyota Tacomas being procured and used by SF teams with success, and they have IFS compared to a Rubicons solid front axels.

Procurement cost? Well, that does make you go, "Hmmmm..." A stock Jeep Rubicon is about $30K +. Beef it, modify up a bit, maybe $10K. Add another $10-$20K to it for misc. procurement/contract/Labor cost - $60 K tops ? Of course I remember seeing what DOA/DOD was paying for ATVs (Gators, etc.) for use just going around Bagram.
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Old 27 January 2016, 09:02
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I don't know about that. I have had two Rubicons in the past, and they held up pretty damn well. Now, the most time I have spent behind the wheels, in some very rough terrain and driving the hell out of, have been Toyota Hiluxes and Ford Rangers. They both held up well. A Jeep "Rubicon" is built even more rugged than a Ford Ranger, and would fare better IMHO.

Rapid deployment for airfield seizures, quick transport of small teams over dirt roads in remote areas, easier to bring to the location (due to weight and size). Back in the day, there were a lot of stock Toyota Tacomas being procured and used by SF teams....
....don't forget the Landcruiser. But you're right. Hell, I think that's the reason I own a TJ and Tacoma now...
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Old 27 January 2016, 09:24
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Nice. Fucking everyone gets cool shit these days.
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Old 27 January 2016, 09:47
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Nice. Fucking everyone gets cool shit these days.
Hey, back in the day, when we were the first to get the Beretta, M16A2, Goretex and Poly P - we were the envy of everyone.

I still remember the days of taping mini mag lights onto our M16s and thinking we were really high speed.
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Old 27 January 2016, 09:51
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Nice. Fucking everyone gets cool shit these days.
For you married with kids suburbanites, so you don't feel left out.

http://www.jeep.com/en/wrangler/#model=sport&color=black&category=standard

Get the Jeep, put a garmin in your pocket, grow a beard, wear some 5.11s, get some oakleys, liberally apply some hair gel, drive over to your local Halal restaurant and start up a conversation, and you will not feel left out. LMAO.
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:08
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I almost bought a Jeep and it might be my next vehicle.

Serving in OIF made me a believer in Toyota.I really want a Jeep pickup then I could have the best of both worlds.
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:17
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IMHO, Toyotas are much better quality overall than Jeeps. I have personally owned 2 Wrangler Rubicons, 2 Toyota FJ Cruisers, and 1 Toyota Tacoma. Still have the Toyota Tacoma (2002) and one of the FJ Cruisers (2012). Much better quality than the Jeeps I had. The manual transmission the JK Wrangler Rubicon (2012 model) was the worst manual transmission I have ever had. I would like to get another Jeep in the near future, for summertime fun, but if a JK will definitely go with an automatic version.

Overseas I have owned a old Jeep willy, Toyota Hiluxs and Ford Rangers. All manuals. Pic of my first Jeep in Khmer Land, of course had a rebuilt Toyota engine put in it. (not me in the photo). Toyota Hilux painted matte dark OD green in background of second photo.

Jeeps are sometimes like having a smoking hot girlfriend/wife who nags and bitches all the time. Fun when the top is off, but a PITA to live with the rest of the time.
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Last edited by leopardprey; 27 January 2016 at 10:32.
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:18
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Procurement cost? Well, that does make you go, "Hmmmm..." A stock Jeep Rubicon is about $30K +. Beef it, modify up a bit, maybe $10K. Add another $10-$20K to it for misc. procurement/contract/Labor cost - $60 K tops ? Of course I remember seeing what DOA/DOD was paying for ATVs (Gators, etc.) for use just going around Bagram.
I would be surprised if a final price wasn't a minimum of $100,000 and likely well above that. It's very expensive to take a vehicle, strip it down and then rebuild it mostly by hand in a low volume. The Army will have a long laundry list of militarization requirements that will be far from the commercial lighting, interior, electrical system, etc. in a production line produced commercial variant. Replacing the engine was just the start.

The article doesn't say what "Army" program this is for. I'm guessing it's the Fort Benning Maneuver Center Ground Mobility Vehicle (GMV) which isn't even a funded program yet. It's interesting that they selected a name that USSOCOM has been using for a couple of decades.

National Defense Magazine has an article about the program and possible vehicle options in their November issue: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.o...gTraction.aspx

Jeep is an Italian owned brand now and this vehicle will be extra Italian in it's DNA with that engine. I just don't have many sentimental feelings for that company anymore.
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:20
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.I really want a Jeep pickup then I could have the best of both worlds.
There are supposed to be on the market in 2017.

Would it be cheaper to buy an off the shelf Toyota already available with a diesel for OCONUS use than having Hendricks upfit Wranglers?
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:25
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Typical consumer production vehicles are compromises; Jeep, Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc.
For a proposed vehicle such as this, it should be rethought, redesigned, and re-tooled and produced.
Along with that the Manuf. from the very beginning should be looking at bringing that same vehicle to the civ market as a forethought. Though admittedly it's the CAFE rules/ safety stuff that kills an idea like that.

Unless I'm missing something tech-neato-neato, basically we're talking 4 wheels and a carriage. And it doesn't have to cost a mint to achieve it. But it will eventually cost a mint if you take the average Jeep/Chev/Ford/Dodge/Toy and try to make that work.

All of those car manuf. had at least one good run of components in their vehicles. Jeeps inline 6, Ford/Dodge's BorgWarner t-18 transmissions, Toyotas' ability to make something smaller that is better than American Iron, etc.

The wheel doesn't need to be reinvented here, but they also don't need to grab up some civ vehicle and call it game-on.
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:25
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They do/did serve a purpose. Here's a pic of a Mercedes IFAV from my platoon in OIF-I, before the Muj got savvy on the use of IED's. Before I retired we were looking at ways to get a handful of them down to JSOTF-P. E5M, the f'ing "Growler" is nothing more than a $200k, OD painted golf cart.
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:25
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I will buy a Wrangler as soon as they put a diesel in it. I don't buy new vehicles, but in this case I would make an exception. They've teased it for so long that I no longer believe industry when they say it's coming. I don't have the time or skill to do my own conversion.
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:40
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I will buy a Wrangler as soon as they put a diesel in it. I don't buy new vehicles, but in this case I would make an exception. They've teased it for so long that I no longer believe industry when they say it's coming. I don't have the time or skill to do my own conversion.
They have been talking about that for 15 years. Don't think will see it happening here.

Good thing about Toyotas? Well, you can be out in the middle of nowhere, in bumfukistan, or some remote par of Asia and if you need to get a Toyota part or get it fixed - no problem. I remember once my Hilux breaking down, and I kid you not here comes some villager walking down a trail who was able to fix it. Another time, had one break down in the middle of nowhere (due to my poor driving skills - and worst part was having two chicks in the vehicle who were like, "We told you to slow down bla bla bla....", on a dirt road next to a couple of huts. Next thing ya know have a bunch of villagers surrounding me, checking out the vehicle, give one $50 and he gets on a motor bike, comes back within 30 minutes with the parts and it is soon fixed.
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:40
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The only problem with the new JK (2008 and up) is the electrics.
I've had 2 of them, 2 and 4 door, and in Rubicon trim they kick ass.

The stupid CANBUS electrical system is a stranding waiting to happen however. Rip that out, and just go with a standalone for the engine controls, and you'd be in good shape.

I keep my Wranglers stock, if you buy a Rubicon there's no need to beef it up mechanically. Shitcan the plastics, put in a real roll bar and minimalist seats, and you're there.
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:44
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There is a rumor that the new 2017 Jeep Wranglers will do away with the roll bar and all have strengthened roofs. ??
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Old 27 January 2016, 10:49
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Originally Posted by CV View Post
I will buy a Wrangler as soon as they put a diesel in it. I don't buy new vehicles, but in this case I would make an exception. They've teased it for so long that I no longer believe industry when they say it's coming. I don't have the time or skill to do my own conversion.
I find it funny Nissan is putting a Cummins in the Titan.

Surprised Toyota has not done a diesel Tundra or Tacoma?I ASSume the EPA stands in the way of making it cost effective?
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Old 27 January 2016, 11:06
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Just bring back the M151A2 "Mutt"......shockingly reliable, low maintenance, easy to fix, just not as high road speed as everything named here.
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