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  #201  
Old 4 January 2009, 00:07
Greenhat
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Originally Posted by agx View Post
You're right. My choice of words was poor. I think originally what I said, or meant to say, was that we declared a genocide on Naziism, ie the ideology, not individual people. It's not about people, but what they're doing. And the same could be said for the Empire in Japan.
So why did Franco die of old age?

Btw, genocide is, by definition, the systematic killing of a racial or cultural group. You don't "genocide" Nazism.

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The Japanese and Germans are still alive, but Naziism is effectively dead, as is the Japanese Empire. The emporer still exists, but he isn't worshipped as tenou (heaven's king, aka God) today.
Uh-huh...


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So, in essence, both of those ideologies were effectively wiped out, similar to a genocide. And that was our objective. Our goal in the war was to crush the enemy and eradicate the source of the problem.
Again, why did Franco die of old age?

If we "wiped out" an ideology, wouldn't it make sense that we would have destroyed the three most visible leaders of that ideology (Hitler, Mussolini and Franco)?

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Do you think it would be a good thing or a bad thing if 50% of the USA was Muslim? Would it be good or bad for the Constitution?
I don't think it would make any difference at all. Religion alone does not create behavior or culture.
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  #202  
Old 4 January 2009, 00:09
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Originally Posted by agx View Post
...we declared a genocide on Naziism...The Japanese and Germans are still alive, but Naziism is effectively dead, as is the Japanese Empire. The emporer still exists, but he isn't worshipped as tenou (heaven's king, aka God) today. After the war the American military made the Emporer take off his robes, put on a suit and go all over the country basically telling people, "hehe, sorry, I'm not really God. Let's all still be friends though." He was humiliated and we completely spit on their religion.
So, in essence, both of those ideologies were effectively wiped out, similar to a genocide. And that was our objective. Our goal in the war was to crush the enemy and eradicate the source of the problem.
My opinion is that it's the same with Islam. I don't want to genocide every single Muslim on the planet. Not at all. But I don't think the War on Terror will actually be effective until we acknowledge that the source of the problems is Islam. It's not some spin-off group, it's the whole enchalada. I don't consider individual Muslims the enemy, I consider Islam the enemy. I have many Muslim friends and wish no harm to come to them. Islam is a threat to the world though. Whether it's EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY in the Middle East, or half the countries in Europe, or Russia, or India, or wherever, I see nothing but trouble if Islam is involved. Go look at a list of all the ongoing conflicts around the world. Muslims are involved (aka the cause) in almost all of them.
You can't possibly be this dumb for real.

Did you have your pet hamster type some of that? Are you a subscriber to T-Rock's newsletter?
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  #203  
Old 4 January 2009, 00:12
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by Greenhat View Post
Until they actually do something that is treason or an attack on the United States, they are just doing what they have every right to do.
I hear what you are saying. I really do. However, there is just something about that statement that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe because its the particular circumstances of this (Palestinian/HAMAS) situation.

I am trying to compare it to the way that people always are allowed to do anything and everything that people know is wrong and is going to lead to something bad, but nobody can/will do anything because its TECHNICALLY not illegal....yet. Like the weird guy who sits at playgrounds and takes pictures of little children playing, or at the beach. Who lingers a little too long by the side of a schoolyard. And then he winds up taking the next step a few months later and molests a kid.

In a situation like that, everyone knows its not right and that something should be done about.....but its not until he actually does something that you are able take action. The biggest loser there is the kid (and to a large extent, society) who could have been protected, but wasn't.

I dunno. There's a point that I think the founding fathers would have wanted to draw the line at. I am pretty sure that this would be one of them. But I guess other people think differently.
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  #204  
Old 4 January 2009, 00:17
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I dunno. There's a point that I think the founding fathers would have wanted to draw the line at. I am pretty sure that this would be one of them.
Like this guy?

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.- Benjamin Franklin
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  #205  
Old 4 January 2009, 00:27
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
Like this guy?

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.- Benjamin Franklin
I don't think that saying really has a parallel to today's climate. It's a nice quote and very appropriate for the time in which it was uttered, but I think he is referring to the rule of a totalitarian government....not the liberties of a bunch of islamofacists have to sit on a corner and do everything but say that they want every man woman and child in America who isn't muslim to either convert, submit to Sharia law, or die (at least that's what I am reading between the lines).
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  #206  
Old 4 January 2009, 00:33
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
but I think he is referring to the rule of a totalitarian government....not the liberties of a bunch of islamofacists have to sit on a corner and do everything but say that they want every man woman and child in America who isn't muslim to either convert, submit to Sharia law, or die (at least that's what I am reading between the lines).
How does a government become totalitarian?

Right, they start oppressing the rights of their citizens.
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  #207  
Old 4 January 2009, 00:34
Greenhat
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
I don't think that saying really has a parallel to today's climate. It's a nice quote and very appropriate for the time in which it was uttered, but I think he is referring to the rule of a totalitarian government....not the liberties of a bunch of islamofacists have to sit on a corner and do everything but say that they want every man woman and child in America who isn't muslim to either convert, submit to Sharia law, or die (at least that's what I am reading between the lines).

Maybe you should stop reading between the lines and read the Constitution.

The founding fathers had their rights taken from them. They weren't "deserving" of the protections of the Magna Carte because of who they were, where they lived. They certainly understood what they were talking about, the risks... they lived it.

EVERY PERSON, regardless of race, creed, color, religion, sex, whatever... that resides in the United States, has the right to the protections of the US Constitution. When you take them from one, you allow someone to take them from you.

If you aren't willing to give up your right to free speech, don't ask others to give up theirs.
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  #208  
Old 4 January 2009, 01:52
T-Rock T-Rock is offline
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Are you a subscriber to T-Rock's newsletter?
Jimbo, I am a FUCKING idiot, ban me.
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  #209  
Old 4 January 2009, 01:58
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Jimbo, I am a FUCKING idiot, ban me.
Coming from you, that is high praise indeed.
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  #210  
Old 4 January 2009, 01:59
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Originally Posted by T-Rock View Post
ban me.




Okay.
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  #211  
Old 4 January 2009, 02:44
tnkspe119 tnkspe119 is offline
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Thumbs up

Hahahaha...I didnt even get to read the last post before I saw T-Rock banned and I just laughed because I knew someone would take him up on his offer. Thanks for the laugh Sharky.
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  #212  
Old 4 January 2009, 09:23
Gryfen-FL Gryfen-FL is offline
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Originally Posted by Sharky
Okay.
Sharky, I just saw this Bansky guy's website One, in particular, made me think of you. :D

...have a nice day.
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Since it was Virginia, did they go ahead and write a traffic ticket to the corpse when they were done?
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  #213  
Old 4 January 2009, 10:36
agx agx is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
You can't possibly be this dumb for real.
I guess when you can't debate the issues it's time to attack the person.
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  #214  
Old 4 January 2009, 10:39
Gryfen-FL Gryfen-FL is offline
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Well, yes, agx.

Maybe your are a more refined, civilized person that I, or Jimbo.

However, comma:
If someone tells me that the sky is green and grass is blue, I would question their mental faculties.
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Since it was Virginia, did they go ahead and write a traffic ticket to the corpse when they were done?
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  #215  
Old 4 January 2009, 10:48
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Originally Posted by agx View Post
I guess when you can't debate the issues it's time to attack the person.
Nice try but he wasn't attacking you, he was giving you a backhanded compliment while at the same time questioning your motives.

That "attack the person" counter works well when the discussion centers around political ideology but not as well in a thread where facts need to be used.

You comments, IMO, appear fairly simplistic and niave, so I can see how someone would find it difficult to take them seriously.

At some point people who have much more experience than you get frustrated trying to counter points that aren't on the same level as others points of disagreement or agreement are, since it is mentally tiring to be drug down to the level it requires for a response.

That's not attacking you either, it's just commentary on how your posts read and the points that are contained within them.
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  #216  
Old 4 January 2009, 11:15
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Originally Posted by agx View Post
I guess when you can't debate the issues it's time to attack the person
When you get a grasp on the basic facts, then maybe I'll ignore the issue and attack you.
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  #217  
Old 4 January 2009, 11:25
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MakoZeroSix MakoZeroSix is offline
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LOL. Too bad, I wanted a copy of T-Rock's newsletter. I'm sure it's fascinating.
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  #218  
Old 4 January 2009, 11:38
Boats Boats is offline
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Originally Posted by Chewedup331 View Post
Get a load of this

Free Gaza boat will try to reach Strip

A group of international activists said it would defy an Israeli blockade and send a boat with medical supplies to Gaza from Cyprus.

Free Gaza Group spokeswoman Caoimhe Butterly said their 20-meter yacht Dignity would leave Larnaca port around 5 p.m. (1400GMT) Monday with 3.5 tons of donated supplies.



She said the yacht would carry 16 passengers, including former US Congresswoman Cynthia Mckinney, Cypriot lawmaker and doctor Eleni Theocharous and activists from Britain, Australia, Ireland and Tunisia.

Butterly said the urgent need to deliver aid requested by Gaza authorities “outweighs the risks” of entering a war zone.

Free Gaza has successfully made five deliveries of aid by boat from Larnaca to Gaza over the past four months.
(AP)

Gad.
Once again, a brilliant illustration of delusion without limit...
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  #219  
Old 4 January 2009, 12:45
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I love watching the UN actively demonstrate it's own irrelevance at moments like this.
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  #220  
Old 4 January 2009, 13:26
ReconValhalla ReconValhalla is offline
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Smile Oh boy...

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Originally Posted by Greenhat View Post
There are 1.4 billion Muslims in the world. You want to make war on all of them? Change Muslim to Jew in your post and you sound like fucking Hitler.
Ok, I understand your point, but consider that the Jews did not ram two airplanes into the Reichstag nor did they try to sink a German warship.

We could never kill EVERY Muslim on the planet, but we can certainly send them back to the Stone Age, as we did to Japan and Germany. The only way we could get there is through the proper mindset, and it is said mindset that we lack. We won WWII by going all out, and that is the only way we will win this war.

I don't get off on being an internet hardass....or saying "so and so" needs to be dead. But we need to bring a war without rules to the Muslims if we expect to keep our way of life.

Some people mentioned earlier that we should infringe upon the rights of Muslims in the States. I don't think this is right, even though at times my emotions say otherwise. However, keep in mind that if Muslims had their way in America, they would not be so fair and just as to fall in step with our beloved Constitution. On another note, I am really proud to see so many people sticking to the Constitution.


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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
Two comments.

First, I agree with the quote above. While I do consider Christianity a threat, it cannot be ignored that the religion's followers have dramatically changed their behaviors in the past thousand years. Simply, Christians have decided that they don't wish to forcibly impress their ideas upon others -- and openly (and aggressively) punish those who are so fanatical as to utilize violence in the name of their religion. This is where we should want Islam to arrive. And it CAN.

Secondly, the commentary bordering on genocide is the danger we face when we refuse to properly address the Islamic threat. People's emotions are easily riled -- we as a species are not near as advanced as we like to brag we are, and there are numerous examples within the last 30 years (well after WWII) that show how easily and quickly our emotions can result in nothing less than atrocious behavior.

The idea that we are in a Global War on Terrorism is simply stupid. We are in a Global War on Islam -- whether we want to admit it or not. Certainly Muslims don't doubt this. Whether they will tell you that they are suspicious of the West's dealings with Islam in regards to recent wars, the support of Israel, issues surrounding oil, religious equality (including even when we capitulate and allow for the masking of windows at private swimming hours at public pools), whatever -- Muslims look at the West through jaundiced eyes at a minimum, many look at the West as an enemy (in advance, there are many examples of enemies conducting trade and other relations).

We should openly acknowledge that we are in a war against Islam, and wage it as such. Or surrender the war. Whichever route selected, we need to accept the reality and choose a course. Personally, I would rather we didn't surrender. If we decided to fight it seriously, then we should target Muslim nations throughout the world and clearly state that violent acts (or the tolerance of their citizenry conducting violent acts) will result in their destruction -- and then carry that out. I believe the violence would initially be intense, and scores of Muslims would die. I also believe they would lose the war -- the more aggressive that we fought, the quicker they would surrender. We should not forget that "surrender" means there are conditions that are to be met by the losers -- and we should demand certain changes in the Islamic religion as part of our acceptance of their surrender. Conditions, BTW, which are put forth and championed by Muslims -- not by Christians. We cannot MAKE them change their religion to one that is peaceful, not directly. No, our job should be to make it so painful to continue to practice assclownery behavior that they themselves seek to change their beliefs.

I really don't care whatever happens. Because I have no illusions that we will surrender. No, we'll eventually stomp that ass -- but if we don't do it sooner than later, sadly lots of Muslims will die that really didn't have to. Even to the extent that it could appear genocidal -- which will be another blight on our history of so-called "progress"....
SOTB, you are absolutely right.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
Did you have your pet hamster type some of that?
Ah hah! I have started a hamster trend in this thread. I claim full responsibility. Go ahead, bicker about Israel, Palestine, Jews and Muslims. The hamsters will be plotting. Misdirection, my friends, misdirection.
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