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  #101  
Old 5 January 2009, 19:43
Greenhat
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Originally Posted by agx View Post
I haven't spent time in South Asia, but the Persians aren't Arab,
When you go to Iran, you can tell us about that. You didn't list one Persian nation that you have visited.

Maybe you hadn't noticed, but Russia, Eastern Europe and Europe in general have all had the same sorts of problems for as long as we have records... including back to well before Islam existing. So, Islam is the problem?
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  #102  
Old 5 January 2009, 19:45
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I see the enemy in others also. There's plenty of non Islam following people who threaten my way of life as well. They need to be dealt with via as strong a hand as we deal with those that use Islam to threaten what we believe in.

Those that follow Islam and don't try to kill us, I'm cool with. Same way I'm cool with atheist, buddist, global warming advocates, catholics and any other belief. I may not agree with them and laugh at some of their antics but as long as they aren't trying to kill me or threaten my way of life, I can live with them just like others live with me.

So in a nut shell, the enemy is anyone who says he is my or my nations enemy or attacks my nation or it citizenry or is making plans to do so.
Agree.
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  #103  
Old 5 January 2009, 19:46
agx agx is offline
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Those that follow Islam and don't try to kill us, I'm cool with. Same way I'm cool with atheist, buddist, global warming advocates, catholics and any other belief. I may not agree with them and laugh at some of their antics but as long as they aren't trying to kill me or threaten my way of life, I can live with them just like others live with me.
I agree 100%.

But, I think we cannot be effective in dealing with the threat unless we recognize the source of the problem. Case in point is Iraq and Afghanistan. In my opinion we went down a very self-destructive path in Iraq because of a politically correct attitude towards Islam and the Iraqi people, plus war in general.

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So in a nut shell, the enemy is anyone who says he is my or my nations enemy or attacks my nation or it citizenry or is making plans to do so.
I agree 100%, and this is my whole point. Islam declares itself to be the enemy of our nation. Read the Quran and Hadiths! Allowing an avowed and practicing Muslim to immigrate is like allowing an avowed Nazi to immigrate.

Sayyid Qutb, a famous cleric said, "It is Allah and not man who rules. Allah is the source of all authority, including legitimate political authority. Virtue, not freedom, is the highest value. Therefore, Allah's law, not man's, should govern the society."

Allah's law is defined in the Quran and Sunnah. Set in stone. Read the books for yourself, and if you have no issue with your kids being ruled by their contents, then I digress...
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  #104  
Old 5 January 2009, 19:49
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Islam declares itself to be the enemy of our nation.
Islam is a religion with 1.4 billion followers, a significant portion of which are fighting on our side in the GWOT. "Islam declares itself to be the enemy of our nation."? Poppycock.

Similar nonsense was once spouted about the Papists being enemies of our nation. It was nonsense then, it's nonsense now.

Do Catholics consistently follow every bit of the decrees of the Church? No?

Why would you think that the Quran would rule the lives of the followers of Islam when NO religious dogma has ever been followed strictly by any people?

Do Buddhists all follow Buddha's teachings? Are Christians all humble, loving persons following the example of Christ?

Idiocy.
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  #105  
Old 5 January 2009, 19:59
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AGX - In my humble opinion, you are preaching rubbish. There is a difference between shaving and cutting your own nose off.

Islam might be a contributing problem when it is used as propaganda and a tool for indoctrination by extremist organizations. But to go such extremes as you do and claim that allowing Muslims to immigrate is the same as welcoming Nazis?

Rubbish.

Do you actually believe that our policy towards Islam led to the debacle in the aftermath of the Iraqi invasion? I can think of a number of much more tangible issues and problems than our "policy" towards a world religion.
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  #106  
Old 5 January 2009, 20:00
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AGX, since you are so learned and wise in the ways of the world, answer me this: was the Nazi symbol you saw in Qatar a swastika? Was it on a building across Al Shamal or Al Rayyan? Also, indulge me this: what was the ethnicity of any of the waiters/waitresses/manual labor you observed while in Qatar?
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  #107  
Old 5 January 2009, 20:01
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Originally Posted by agx
Case in point is Iraq and Afghanistan. In my opinion we went down a very self-destructive path in Iraq because of a politically correct attitude towards Islam and the Iraqi people, plus war in general....
The occupation of Afghanistan is not about religion. Neither was the war, although the affiliation/protection of AQ by the former govt of Astan arguably tied the invasion to Islamic terrorism. In many cases the current occupation isn't even about the Taliban. We ARE allowing religion to insert itself into the problem.

Iraq started out with NOTHING to do with religion. Zero. Our missteps in dealing with people that need a hard-assed leader allowed religion to creep in. Still, I would argue that less than half of the problems in Iraq are so easily pointed to religion, or motivated by religion....
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  #108  
Old 5 January 2009, 20:15
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Maybe you hadn't noticed, but Russia, Eastern Europe and Europe in general have all had the same sorts of problems for as long as we have records... including back to well before Islam existing. So, Islam is the problem?
Same "sorts" of problems? You're joking right? Show me another time ever in the history of Europe when gangs of people were setting cars on fire while chanting "God is Great" and demanding tyranny like Sharia Law.

I've heard of people in Europe fighting against tyranny. "Tear down that wall." But other than these Muslim gangs I've never heard of them fighting for the opposite.







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  #109  
Old 5 January 2009, 20:16
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AGX: final warning. Your posts have nothing to do with the thread subject. Answer my questions and stay on topic.
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  #110  
Old 5 January 2009, 20:18
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In Australia 2nd and 3rd generation Australian born muslims are hardcore islamist.
Read in yesterdays paper that 40% of CIA operations to prevent attacks on US soil are now conducted against targets in Britain, CIA operative describes Britain as an 'Islamist swamp'.
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  #111  
Old 5 January 2009, 20:48
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Sorry, Jimbo. Didn't see your post in time.
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  #112  
Old 5 January 2009, 21:19
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AGX, since you are so learned and wise in the ways of the world, answer me this: was the Nazi symbol you saw in Qatar a swastika? Was it on a building across Al Shamal or Al Rayyan? Also, indulge me this: what was the ethnicity of any of the waiters/waitresses/manual labor you observed while in Qatar?
LOL. I wouldn't really call knowing the locations of streets "wise in the ways of the world," but if you insist on a b.s. verification, here we go...

We'll start with ethnicity I suppose. It's a rather long list. In the areas of town frequented by the westerners (like City Center, Villagio, Hyatt, etc.) Filipinos typically manned all the shops. But they also did hard-core manual labor as well. Lots of Filipinos. Also lots of Indians, Indonesians, Sir Lankans, and assortments of other slaves from a variety of near east and south Asian countries.

The Turkey Central restaurant, which is very famous, over on An-Nasser near the Moon Palace and Thai Snack is obviously run by Turkish people. The barber or ďsaloonĒ I got my hair cut at was Turkish. Higher-class Arab restaurants would often have Egyptian waiters, or sometimes Jordanian or even Lebanese. Lebanese generally worked in higher-up office type jobs within businesses though. The Qatari ISF (Internal Security Forces), you know, the guys with the red Land Cruisers. In Arabic theyíre called Likhawiya (botherhood in Qatari dialect). A lot of those guys seemed to be from Yemen. But I couldnít really say for sure, I only chatted with a few on random occasions. The military and police force was always Arabic speaking guys from other parts of the Middle East, poor countries like Yemen. Qataris generally didnít work in those types of environments. Although I did meet a Qatari that ran a motorcycle shop, he was one cool Qatari. He's even got videos on YouTube doing stunts.

Iím confused about the swastika question. Assuming I indeed know what a swastika symbol is, yeah, it was definitely there. Iím sure it still is. Iím pretty sure I have a picture somewhere, if not I know people there who can go take a snapshot for me. Itís near Ar-Rayaan but I donít think itís technically in that area. Itís off Al-Waab street, heading out parallel with Salwa road, the road that goes to Saudi Arabia, the same road that also goes to Camp As-Sayliya.

Iím not familiar with a municipal area known as As Shamal, if Iím not mistaken thatís a road. I believe it heads out towards Lusail, the race track.

Anyway, Iím sure this ought to satisfy your b.s. verification. I can give you similar descriptions for other countries if you like. Maybe it would be easier to just photocopy my passport for you. In the future a more private b.s. verification would be appreciated.

Sorry if I ran the topic off course guys. No worries. I had my say and will let the horse rest. I'm off on a trip for about a week tomorrow anyway, you guys have a good one duking it out. Go Israel and IDF!

Later
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  #113  
Old 5 January 2009, 21:32
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Originally Posted by agx
....Anyway, Iím sure this ought to satisfy your b.s. verification. I can give you similar descriptions for other countries if you like. Maybe it would be easier to just photocopy my passport for you. In the future a more private b.s. verification would be appreciated....
A wannabe with an ASSitude? Who would of thought....
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  #114  
Old 5 January 2009, 21:35
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Assuming I indeed know what a swastika symbol is, yeah, it was definitely there. Iím sure it still is
Okay, at first you said you saw a Nazi flag. Now its a swastika symbol. Which is it? A flag is one thing. But if its a swastika carved into the stone or painted on or something, it could merely be an ancient symbol. Many cultures used the swastika as a mystical symbol before Hitler. Was it turned in the left-handed direction like the Nazi swastika? Or was it tilted the other way? What color was it?

I don't doubt a Nazi/Islamic connection- In fact I've seen evidence of it before. But you need to be clear about what exactly it was you saw.
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  #115  
Old 5 January 2009, 22:01
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A wannabe with an ASSitude? Who would of thought....
Isn't that kind of the definition of Hamas?
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  #116  
Old 5 January 2009, 22:19
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In the future a more private b.s. verification would be appreciated.
In the future, you not being an enormous douchebag would be appreciated by everyone here.

Frankly, I don't think you've done 1/10 of the shit you have claimed in this thread. You are loose with facts that you claim first hand knowledge of and you started to reply to my questions and then stopped and came back much later. I am curious what you were doing in that time.

If you have done as you claim, good luck getting a security clearance in the Navy. Especially with having spent time in jail in Lebanon.
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  #117  
Old 5 January 2009, 22:22
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In the future, you not being an enormous douchebag would be appreciated by everyone here.

Frankly, I don't think you've done 1/10 of the shit you have claimed in this thread. You are loose with facts that you claim first hand knowledge of and you started to reply to my questions and then stopped and came back much later. I am curious what you were doing in that time.

If you have done as you claim, good luck getting a security clearance in the Navy. Especially with having spent time in jail in Lebanon.
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  #118  
Old 5 January 2009, 22:42
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In the future, you not being an enormous douchebag would be appreciated by everyone here.
LOL!
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  #119  
Old 5 January 2009, 22:44
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Okay, at first you said you saw a Nazi flag. Now its a swastika symbol. Which is it? A flag is one thing. But if its a swastika carved into the stone or painted on or something, it could merely be an ancient symbol. Many cultures used the swastika as a mystical symbol before Hitler. Was it turned in the left-handed direction like the Nazi swastika? Or was it tilted the other way? What color was it?

I don't doubt a Nazi/Islamic connection- In fact I've seen evidence of it before. But you need to be clear about what exactly it was you saw.
I think you misread my post. I mentioned several swastikas. The one on the mosque was a Nazi flag. Jimbo mentioned symbol, so I assume he was asking about the spray-painted symbol near a housing compound. It was a simple spray-painted swastika. I'm pretty sure I can find a pic of that one somewhere.

It's not the ancient symbol, ie the Buddhist kind. I lived in Japan for a while so I've seen that version of the symbol as well, facing in the counter-clockwise direction. Oddly enough though I did on more than one occasion come accross a shrine in Japan with the symbol in the clockwise direction. But it was typically counter-clockwise. Not sure what that was about...? Maybe the monk was carving with a mirror or something, hehe

The spray-painted symbol in Qatar was definitely a swastika though. Unmistakable.
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  #120  
Old 5 January 2009, 23:23
agx agx is offline
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In the future, you not being an enormous douchebag would be appreciated by everyone here.
Can't really argue with this :) I'm sorry, I'll try and be better in the future. I have a hard time controlling the kid in me.

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Frankly, I don't think you've done 1/10 of the shit you have claimed in this thread. You are loose with facts that you claim first hand knowledge of and you started to reply to my questions and then stopped and came back much later. I am curious what you were doing in that time.
I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to here. I think you're referring to the time delay between posts? I was off deer hunting and camping for several days over the weekend. Which is what I'm about to leave to do again. This thread is long so I generally skim things over until I get to where I think I left off. I may have accidentially skipped over your question. Sorry about that. I didn't ignore anything on purpose.

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If you have done as you claim, good luck getting a security clearance in the Navy. Especially with having spent time in jail in Lebanon.
I promise you I haven't lied about anything. What in the world would I have to gain from that? I'm not running for office here :) And what I'm saying obviously isn't popular...

I went to the Middle East because I saw all the hype in the news and I wanted to see it for myself. And I also had the military in mind long-term. I figured the experience would be good for myself and a future career. And since my interest is the politics, I especially liked visiting the "hot spots." That's where the action is.

The study of Islam is largely a personal thing, a genuine personal curiosity. I wouldn't call it a spiritual quest, but I thought I should give them fair consideration. I don't think it makes much sense to simply believe in something because my parents told me to. I've spent a lot of time in a wide variety of Christian churches as well. And in more ways than one I think Muslims are more "Chrisitian" than Christians. We'll save that for a separate discussion though. Despite what I've said, I do have a lot of good things to say about Islam.

The security clearance is a genuine fear of mine, but all the recruiter people assure me I'll be fine. All my trips, at least the ones to iffy countries, were registered with the Embassy. And I have good reason for being there. I wasn't attending training camps or anything. Just a curious college kid wandering around. The experiences should be good for the military.

The time in jail in Lebanon is a funny and scary story. I won't bore people here with all the details. But I didn't do anything that landed me in jail. I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And that wrong place happened to be a very Hezbollah-controlled part of Lebanon. People found out I was American and the crap hit the fan. A crowd of five quickly turned into a crowd of twenty and then a hundred. It's amazing how those people just appear out of nowhere. I was on the phone with the Embassy in Beirut at this point. The police basically just arressted me to keep the Hezbollah guys from carting me off to who knows where. It was more to protect me than anything else. I was in a cell for a while then I moved into a cell-turned-break room with a bunch of Lebanese police guys. We chatted it up for several hours. They got a real kick out of an American being wild (read dumb) enough to venture into their part of the world. I signed some forms after many hours and they let me go. I was constantly looking over my shoulders as I hailed a cab in the dark and made my way back to Beirut. Being let out was scary as hell. For days after this I got random phone calls from people asking me for all sorts of personal information. My mothers name, my social security number, etc. They would never tell me who they were and I would hang up on them. And I have no idea how they got my number.

When I visited Israel (almost a year later) I was placed in a room with an IDF guy and sort-of interrogated for several hours. It wasn't really a big deal, they just asked questions and I answered them honestly. I was flagged in immigration because of the stamps/visas in my passport. But it was just like in the movies, they asked me the same damn questions over and over and over, like I was lying. To them everything I said was a lie. They even accused me of being some secret spy or something. They cleverly managed to get names of some people I knew in various Middle Eastern countries out of me, including phone numbers. They then spent several hours doing what the plain-clothed IDF soldier called "research" and let me enter the country. Then after getting permission and being walked to the immigration line by the IDF in person a second set of immigration people objected when they saw my passport. So they argued for a while and I was then made to sit and wait in another spot for about 20-30 minutes. Then I finally got in. Those people really don't fool around, and I can't blame them either.

Sorry for my ASSitude... I'll put it in check. I'm an arrogant kid that often has to learn the hard way. But don't worry, humility cometh just around the corner for me. No pain no gain...
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