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  #21  
Old 8 January 2018, 01:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post

I went to the addiction and recovery section (don't know why, I don't ever do that) and saw a book which caught my eye. I bought it and read it, several times. The author could not be any more different than me, and yet the words she used to describe her relationship to alcohol...well, I was reading my exact feelings, written by another.
Alcohol and I have a horrible relationship. Not alcohol's fault. I'm just weak when it comes to drinking. Another drunk explains how their life was ruined too? That's what helps me help others. I'm just as phuqued up.
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  #22  
Old 8 January 2018, 07:31
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I decided to post here, because so many vets have issues with Alcohol and other substances and so many of us isolate after coming back from a combat tour...especially, if we either ETS'd, retired or perhaps are in the Guard/Reserve. I believe SOCNET is a great resource for folks who have nowhere else to turn to at least reach out and get hold of someone to talk to as a starting off point...if only for the #MeToo bond. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

Men especially, well ya'll aren't known for talking about how you are feeling...thinking it's all weak and shit...and when alcohol gets involved, it can take a downward spiral...very far down, even when it didn't start out that way.

By way of a true story.. a member of my PSD team (a TX Guard guy), refused to address his issues after losing his best friend during our OIF rotation. He took it hard and isolated and stewed...I thought he was doing better years later when he got remarried, only to learn that the rage got to him and he murdered his pregnant wife. Someone I considered a friend, someone who kept me alive in Iraq, is in prison without parole for life. Mind boggling.

I truly believe that if he had been open to help, to talk, to deal with his pain-his wife and child would be alive and perhaps they might have even had a great life together.

So this stuff really matters.
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  #23  
Old 8 January 2018, 20:15
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So I was reading someone's positive account of using Baclofen to reduce/eliminate desire for alcohol. I am not familiar with Baclofen so decided to research it.

What I found interesting was the site's description of the process of addiction:

"Addictions to drugs such as alcohol take hold progressively, in three stages. The first stage is the first experiences of the drug where its use is festive and feels liberating. The dopaminergic systems are critically important in this phase: the person is at liberty to stop at any time.

The second phase is one of transition towards dependence. The need to take the drug becomes more insistent and the dose needed increases. The person is no longer as capable of stopping taking the drug if desired. Neurobiologically, the activity of the dopaminergic systems changes toward another way of acting and other systems in the brain become important. These are the systems involved in the memories of pleasurable experiences which form a link between the experience of pleasure itself and the pursuit to procure the drug. The systems which form these memories are found in another area of the brain called the limbic system.

In the third phase of addiction, the pursuit of the drug becomes a compulsion and the person loses any possibility of avoiding the need to procure the drug and is thereby rendered a slave to it. Neurobiologically, this corresponds to a set of marked changes in the brain in a region called the dorsal striatum which plays a central role in the compulsion to repeat behaviours. Now the dependence is a true biological illness. The addiction is no longer a pleasure but a source of suffering.

http://baclofentreatment.com/backgro...hol-addiction/

Additionally:

The hypothesis on the way baclofen acts in the brain:

Baclofen treatment produces a state of indifference towards alcohol. This is obtained by progressively increasing the dose until the indifference appears. There is therefore the concept of a threshold, meaning that above a certain level of activation of the GABA B receptors, the systems involved in addiction are inactivated. These systems may be the dopaminergic systems which we think are responsible for cravings but also the memory setting actions of the limbic system which we think are responsible for the link between an environmental stimulus, eg seeing a bottle of alcohol, and the desire to drink. There are also the systems involved in the compulsion to drink situated in the dorsal striatum. We don’t yet understand the links between GABA B receptors and the suppression of craving, indifference to alcohol and the suppression of compulsions.

What have we learned from the clinical use of baclofen in alcoholism?

"We don’t generally ask patients treated with baclofen to stop drinking when they start the treatment. This means that amongst those patients who respond well to baclofen, the cessation of alcohol intake happens when they become indifferent to alcohol. But I’ve never seen these patients go into alcohol withdrawal ie they don’t have the symptoms normally seen with rapid cessation (anxiety, tremors, sweats, feeling unwell). "
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  #24  
Old 12 January 2018, 18:34
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I am not getting this. Do you need help to STOP drinking and are committed? Then try HARD and get on Naltrexone for at least a year. If you fall off the wagon get back on it and continue to try. Sure you can "cheat" on Naltrexone but thats not the purpose now is it? They also have it in injections, the VA now uses it. The shit is not cheap, I recently heard $1400 a shot. Many DRS dont even now what it is but I would give it a try if you really need help to quit.
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  #25  
Old 12 January 2018, 19:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
The Sinclair method is a methodolgy, it's the medication that cost money. You don't have go to any special clinic or doctor.

AA requires complete abstinence and sheer willpower while Naltrexone gradually kills the cravings. How Naltrexone is generally prescribed in the US requires abstinence, which is not what the Sinclair method is. I'd say an 80% success rate is pretty darn good.

For some folks AA is helpful, but it's not the only thing out there. My point in posting is not to argue, but to provide links to alternatives for folks who might never have heard about this option. I certainly had not and one of my best friend is an ASAP counselor....
The Sinclair Method is based on sketchy research and a reliance on Naltrexone.


ASAM which is the organization for addiction MDs is clear that the best treatment for Alcohol Use Disorder Severe which is th closest medical equivalent to alcoholism is best treated by abstinence That is the EBP for it. Sinclair is not and most of the docs that do support it are quacks. Not all most
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Last edited by bm2bob; 12 January 2018 at 19:52.
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  #26  
Old 12 January 2018, 19:44
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
There it is right there.

As I've written here before, just about every recovering alcoholic/addict tried to get clean unsuccessfully before finally getting sober. We all have whatever it is we do to stay sober, and there is a different path for each of us.

I attended AA for a few months at first, but then deployed and didn't go back to AA when I got back.

In truth, I never spoke to or heard anyone that had a story I could really relate to, and I stayed sober through willpower, and by living by a simple idea, that, no matter what else, I am sober, and I will stay sober. AA is group support, and I got clean and stayed clean alone. I did not discuss my alcoholism with hardly anyone, nor did I discuss how I stayed sober.

A few months ago I was perusing Powell's Books in Portland (greatest book store ever, if you are into paper and ink). I went to the addiction and recovery section (don't know why, I don't ever do that) and saw a book which caught my eye. I bought it and read it, several times. The author could not be any more different than me, and yet the words she used to describe her relationship to alcohol...well, I was reading my exact feelings, written by another.

So...there's two of us. Unfortunately, the author died of lung cancer in 2002, so, I'm still sober and solo.

The book is Drinking: A Love Story, by Caroline Knapp. That book means a lot to me, and may not mean much to anyone else...a different path for each of us.
Man I love that book.
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  #27  
Old 12 January 2018, 20:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm2bob View Post
The Sinclair Method is based on sketchy research and a reliance on Naltrexone.


ASAM which is the organization for addiction MDs is clear that the best treatment for Alcohol Use Disorder Severe which is th closest medical equivalent to alcoholism is best treated by abstinence That is the EBP for it. Sinclair is not and most of the docs that do support it are quacks. Not all most
How would you respond to folks who have completely turned their lives around with the help of Naltrexone?

https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/36/1/2/137995

The APA is recognizing Natltrexone as a mainstream treatment

https://www.psychcongress.com/articl...l-use-disorder
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  #28  
Old 12 January 2018, 21:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
How would you respond to folks who have completely turned their lives around with the help of Naltrexone?

https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/36/1/2/137995

The APA is recognizing Natltrexone as a mainstream treatment

https://www.psychcongress.com/articl...l-use-disorder
I would say good for them. Recovery is not easy, I'm not in a position to judge anybody's recovery.

I personally have worked with dozens of people who have been helped by Naltrexone. I know a guy who would predictably relapse soon after his monthly vivitrol would wear out.

I personally don't think MAT is the best long term answer for most, but it saves lives. It may be the only thing that works for some.

The APA is talking about using it for abstinence. That is not the Sinclair Method.
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  #29  
Old 12 January 2018, 21:59
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Originally Posted by bm2bob View Post
I know a guy who would predictably relapse soon after his monthly vivitrol would wear out.
How long was he on it? Thats what happened to me. I did six months then thought I had it. Like a clock I started drinking again about 30 days after my last injection. I got back on them and bingo, I havent touched a drop since. No desire at all.
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  #30  
Old 12 January 2018, 22:14
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Originally Posted by Dutch8654 View Post
How long was he on it? Thats what happened to me. I did six months then thought I had it. Like a clock I started drinking again about 30 days after my last injection. I got back on them and bingo, I havent touched a drop since. No desire at all.
several months several different times. Eventually he broke his neck in a wreck. He lived, but they took him away from our clinic.
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  #31  
Old 6 February 2018, 16:56
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This book may be useful for someone. It discusses using Naltrexone to gradually reduce/eliminate the desire to drink. I tried to upload it but it is too large.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/60fs7gmvby...olism.pdf?dl=0
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  #32  
Old 6 February 2018, 17:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post

So...there's two of us. Unfortunately, the author died of lung cancer in 2002, so, I'm still sober and solo.

The book is Drinking: A Love Story, by Caroline Knapp. That book means a lot to me, and may not mean much to anyone else...a different path for each of us.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Purchased off Amazon Prime and will be here Friday.
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  #33  
Old 6 February 2018, 18:22
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Originally Posted by Sigi View Post
Thanks for the recommendation.
You might read it and think "meh..." We are all different. I read it, and found myself reading my own thoughts...almost uncanny, that she had such similar echoes, as she and I have next to nothing in common, besides nationality and disease.
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  #34  
Old 6 February 2018, 20:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
The Sinclair Method uses a 50MG dose of Naltrexone one hour prior to drinking to gradually cause an "extinction" of cravings for alcohol.

It is used in Finland, but is almost unheard of in the US, which seems criminal to me.

So if you are struggling with alcohol or other substances and are feeling out of control or frustrated, take a look at these links:

https://www.the-sinclair-method.com/
https://www.recoveringfromrecovery.com/
https://www.cthreefoundation.org/claudias-tedx.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ber-naltrexone
https://www.thefix.com/content/naltr...ent-alcoholism

The documentary "One Little Pill" available free on Amazon Prime
Or you GP with Vivotrol, the injectible version of Naltrexone that lasts an entire month. It takes away the challenge of some people taking a pill.

I spend a great deal of time in this environment with Vets. For most alcoholics, just one things will not work. Meds, AA and/ot Smart Recovery. Disulfram (antabuse) in various combinations is what works most. Of course this is only once the person wants to stop.
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