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  #101  
Old 2 November 2017, 13:52
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I am not going to criticize a young NCO that has volunteered to serve in this new unit.
Nor will I....but they do not qualify for a special hat.
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  #102  
Old 2 November 2017, 13:59
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Kind of reminds me of being labeled a poser for confirming that I served in a Delta Company. :)
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  #103  
Old 2 November 2017, 14:03
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Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
Nor will I....but they do not qualify for a special hat.
Any enabler assigned to a SF Group wears the maroon beret, even soldiers who aren't airborne-qualified, as well as soldiers that were assigned to the unit (vice those that volunteered). The maroon beret is the unit headgear.

The SFAB is going to have a brownish/greenish hat for their unit headgear. I'm not bothered by that.
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  #104  
Old 2 November 2017, 14:09
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Dumb outsider question, does this new unit whatever it ends up being, have the potential to create quality Q-Course candidates or better support people for Group? I understand the obvious issues that have alarmed the community. Just wondering it their are any positives.
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  #105  
Old 2 November 2017, 15:04
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The positive is exactly as the CSA advertises. The SFAB will do SFA missions that are beyond the optempo capability of the SF Groups. There are only so many hours in a day and so many days in a week. Groups just dont have enough ODAs to do "everything".
The only real disaster in this SFAB drama is almost completely resident in the poor presentation and the failure to consider the 'optics. (just my opinion)

Why advertise it so overtly in a way that seems to have initially tried to sell it as somethin it wasn't.
BATT, MITT, OMLT, ETT and on and on... all of these units were composite versions of this so-called SFAB. Why bother with this wild-eyed sales pitch? Are they an elite fighting force?
...probably not.
Are they going to focus on on SFA? Certainly - but they don't need any more fanfare than the laundry list of
alphabet soup efforts that preceded them. Do they need a selection process? Who knows. They certainly have a big brother looking out for them though, because they are supposed to be getting paid a higher SDAP rate than SF guys were getting when I retired earlier this year. Lump sum bonus money? Who cares - that's what bonus money is for - everybody gets a "signing bonus" but wow, that increased SDAP sure does sound hot.

The headgear issue is a matter of personal preference. Some folks see it as a non-issue, some see it as a stab in the back. I am middle of the road - but if color matters t all, then it should matter. If color DOESNT matter, then why don't everyone in the SF Groups wear green? Does anyone in Ranger Regiment wear maroon? Organizational means organizational. Nobody in the 82d wears Green or tan regardless of where they came from because to certain units, color DOES mean something.

If these troops are being drawn in for a specific reason then there is no payoff for the 1st SFC. An 11B in the SFAB getting SDAP and special promotion board treatment would be a fool for taking a cut in SDAP pay so he could get an extra tab for his sleeve and a slightly different colored hat in order to do a very similar mission set on the ground.
Traveling to neat locations with less of the big army bullshit, special duty pay, foreign weapons, and some free language training (and the pay that might come with it). Why would you really want to go to the SFQC to start all over again only to find out that the Army you just left now hates you?

Overall, it isn't about what is best for an SF guy. It isn't about what's best for the SF Regiment. It 's about what is best for the nation. Could this have gone better if the Army had decided to expand SF by an equal number of battalions? Maybe - but they didn't. The SF qualified CSA decided that he was going to give this to big Army. SF isn't going to get money out of this and for the most part if folks have a hard time succeeding in an SFAB they certainly wont do well in the SFQC. The same goes for support guys. In addition - in SF we have a very bad habit of treating our support guys like second class citizens. I have a feeling support guys in the SFAB will get treated better by their peers.

If I was doing well in an SFAB, the only upward mobility I would seek would be a Ranger Tab.
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  #106  
Old 2 November 2017, 21:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I am not going to criticize a young NCO that has volunteered to serve in this new unit.
I DID NOT criticize a young NCO that has volunteered to serve in this new unit. I just post an article as to what he was doing in the unit.
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  #107  
Old 3 November 2017, 03:21
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The same goes for support guys. In addition - in SF we have a very bad habit of treating our support guys like second class citizens.
VERY true statement right there. I've seen a lot of very talented support types ETS rather than deal with the treatment they got as unwanted members of the formation. I've gotten a lot of it myself - not being sent to schools, having leaves denied for no reason, being held to entirely different standards, being used for unnecessary details, weekend duty, brass pickup all day for ranges that really didn't need it. It doesn't do much to motivate you.

That being said - there was a lot of opportunity given to the guys that took the abuse, and kept driving forward. I can't tell you how many SF qualified guys took the time to help me get better at PT, at marksmanship, at understanding convoy operations, advanced communications, first aid...and I'm very happy to still be a "support guy" at 13 years in - because I help the team get the job done, and I understand my job.

That being said - where's my fake beret? This maroon one is cool and all, but the faux-green one is gonna make my stories on leave way more believable.....
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  #108  
Old 3 November 2017, 06:25
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I'm sure your support role is more appreciated than you think. Keep doing what your doing and good things will come to you. You don't need a beret to be a good NCO at what your trained to do.
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  #109  
Old 3 November 2017, 10:42
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Originally Posted by SatcomNCO View Post
...That being said - where's my fake beret? This maroon one is cool and all, but the faux-green one is gonna make my stories on leave way more believable.....
Sigh, your next leave is cancelled.

Thanks for your support.
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  #110  
Old 3 November 2017, 11:10
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Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
You don't need a beret to be a good NCO at what your trained to do.

That is the root truth to solve almost everything everything going on in the military these days.
The sad part is seeing how many senior leaders seems to think that troops need to be bribed with baubles and fancy clothes before they will do a good job.
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  #111  
Old 3 November 2017, 11:29
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I've always thought very highly of the SBS, and every interaction I've had with them has reinforced my belief that they are an extraordinary military unit.

Their uniform is pretty much the same as any Royal Marine. The only difference is the branch badge for enlisted SBS Marines, and the SBS variant of jump wings. They wear the same beret as any Royal Marine commando.

The same theme is true for the USMC, save for a pin-on insignia for MARSOC, and the gold wing and combatant diver for FORECON Marines and Sailors.

NSW...same same...other than the Trident and SWCC insignia.

The Army and Air Force are a little too focused on uniform bling at times.
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  #112  
Old 3 November 2017, 17:21
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I've always thought very highly of the SBS, and every interaction I've had with them has reinforced my belief that they are an extraordinary military unit.

Their uniform is pretty much the same as any Royal Marine. The only difference is the branch badge for enlisted SBS Marines, and the SBS variant of jump wings. They wear the same beret as any Royal Marine commando.

The same theme is true for the USMC, save for a pin-on insignia for MARSOC, and the gold wing and combatant diver for FORECON Marines and Sailors.

NSW...same same...other than the Trident and SWCC insignia.

The Army and Air Force are a little too focused on uniform bling at times.
Well said. I've always been a little confused by all the "accessories" worn on the other service's uniforms, probably because I grew up without them.
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  #113  
Old 3 November 2017, 19:00
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Well said. I've always been a little confused by all the "accessories" worn on the other service's uniforms, probably because I grew up without them.
Haters gonna hate.
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  #114  
Old 3 November 2017, 19:28
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Haters gonna hate.
Literally LOLd...
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  #115  
Old 7 November 2017, 18:44
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
... assigned to a SF ...wears... beret, even soldiers who aren't airborne-qualified

I'm not bothered by that.
If my memory fails me, someone will come along and correct.

But back when Cabin Beach ended and 1/1 stood up on Oki in late 1984, IIRC the S-4 (initials P.G.), a great American, wore a green one, with a full flash. I don't think he had been to anything other than quartermaster school. Colonel Estep hand picked him. He kept the Battalion in business, and if it hadn't been for him, the world would be a worse place.
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  #116  
Old 7 November 2017, 20:31
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Originally Posted by Fu King Lawyer View Post
If my memory fails me, someone will come along and correct.

But back when Cabin Beach ended and 1/1 stood up on Oki in late 1984, IIRC the S-4 (initials P.G.), a great American, wore a green one, with a full flash. I don't think he had been to anything other than quartermaster school. Colonel Estep hand picked him. He kept the Battalion in business, and if it hadn't been for him, the world would be a worse place.
Fast forward to 1992, AR 670-1 changed. Only SF-qual'd personnel wear the grean beanie since then. The Green Beret is an award, not just a cover.
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