Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > U.S. Army Special Operations > Special Forces

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16 June 2014, 08:34
Hot Mess's Avatar
Hot Mess Hot Mess is offline
In Vino Veritas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Where you vacation
Posts: 10,941
SOCAF NYT Article

BG Linder discusses SOF policy in Africa. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/15/ma...reat.html?_r=1

Africa is not like the battlefields of past wars, we are not looking at winner territory but people. Although I don't know how that worked out for us in IEF/OIF. Also, no big foot prints in Africa. Thoughts?
__________________
Come on boys, you got to do it right, pray to the moon in the middle of the night
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16 June 2014, 09:14
SOTB's Avatar
SOTB SOTB is offline
Minus one, but more symmetrical....
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Clorox'ing the gene pool....
Posts: 33,022
Africa = birthplace of humanity, other than wildlife and exploitable natural resources has no redeeming qualities. We either agree to take what we want and kill anyone who stands in our way, or we should write off the idea of giving the place any attention.

White or black -- I've found that there are no humans on the continent that we should consider worth intervening on their behalf....
__________________
Losing faith in humanity, one assclown at a time....
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16 June 2014, 09:16
Jimbo's Avatar
Jimbo Jimbo is offline
Scoundrel
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: inside your OODA loop
Posts: 6,096
Edward Lansdale did this in the Philippines as well, but with greater success. If only he had written a book about how to do it...
__________________

“It's not a good idea to allow an unknown enemy force to attack your compound. Ever, really.” -MixedLoad

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -HST

Secrets don't sleep til they're took to the grave. -BMTH

Last edited by magician; 18 June 2014 at 05:51. Reason: Oops. My bad. I did not mean to edit your post. I was responding to it. My apologies.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16 June 2014, 09:33
jdogonroad's Avatar
jdogonroad jdogonroad is offline
Preparing to defend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SE US of A
Posts: 2,880
Hmmm... I knew Linder when he was Cdr of ODA-525. Thought he was a pretty damn decent guy back then. He was sent to that school they send Captains to just before DS/DS kicked off. Balwanz then came and took over the team for the war. Lost track of Linder after that.

And now I have found him.
__________________
What is best in life:"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16 June 2014, 09:55
The Fat Guy's Avatar
The Fat Guy The Fat Guy is offline
The Sagacious One
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pushing string down the hall
Posts: 13,638
I knew Linder as a CPT. I commanded 525 before he did. In defence to what SOTB said, there are people in Africa that need killing. I think that is Linder's point. Are we the ones to do it is the question.
__________________
No one will take better care of us, than us: Suicide Hotline: 1-800-273-8255
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16 June 2014, 09:59
Hot Mess's Avatar
Hot Mess Hot Mess is offline
In Vino Veritas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Where you vacation
Posts: 10,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
White or black -- I've found that there are no humans on the continent that we should consider worth intervening on their behalf....
You're missing the point. They are not helping people as much as countering VEO's. Of course there is the human terrain factor, but from where I sit I don't see a lot of, "we are here to help our little friends out mentality"
__________________
Come on boys, you got to do it right, pray to the moon in the middle of the night
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16 June 2014, 10:01
Psyop Shaw's Avatar
Psyop Shaw Psyop Shaw is offline
Cloud bursting...
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CONUS
Posts: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
BG Linder discusses SOF policy in Africa. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/15/ma...reat.html?_r=1

Africa is not like the battlefields of past wars, we are not looking at winner territory but people.
Past wars as in? Afghan/Iraq? Winning over the people has always been a big part of pretty much any war, its just not highly publicized. GWOT is proof of this. If you can persuade, change, and influence a local populace in favor of our interests then you have just accomplished more then raids and drone strikes will ever do.

Your quote hits the nail on the head "Winning the people" Africa is not a place where direct action will fix (all) its problems. That being said, its not only the local populace it is also the governments, and fellow military forces. We can train, prepare, and advise, that way PN militaries will work in unison (e.g. AMISOM) to close on and destroy the enemy without having to put to many of our brothers in harms way.
__________________
"The only place success comes before work is in the dicitionary." - Airborne
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16 June 2014, 10:06
Psyop Shaw's Avatar
Psyop Shaw Psyop Shaw is offline
Cloud bursting...
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CONUS
Posts: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
You're missing the point. They are not helping people as much as countering VEO's. Of course there is the human terrain factor, but from where I sit I don't see a lot of, "we are here to help our little friends out mentality"
Look towards the horn of Africa, CA and Seabees live it up out there, constantly performing CMO, Humanitarian Aid, etc..

SOCAF has dedicated CA that rolls around winning hearts and minds in more "dangerous" locations. CJTF-HOA has a large CA element, that is constantly out and a bout as well.
__________________
"The only place success comes before work is in the dicitionary." - Airborne
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 16 June 2014, 11:20
Hot Mess's Avatar
Hot Mess Hot Mess is offline
In Vino Veritas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Where you vacation
Posts: 10,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyop Shaw View Post
Look towards the horn of Africa, CA and Seabees live it up out there, constantly performing CMO, Humanitarian Aid, etc..

SOCAF has dedicated CA that rolls around winning hearts and minds in more "dangerous" locations. CJTF-HOA has a large CA element, that is constantly out and a bout as well.
From BG Linder's mouth, "African's solving African problems"
__________________
Come on boys, you got to do it right, pray to the moon in the middle of the night
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16 June 2014, 13:50
MakoZeroSix's Avatar
MakoZeroSix MakoZeroSix is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 7,877
Oh, wonderful- we have a new buzzword- "Ungoverned Spaces". I'll just sprinkle that dozens of times in my next power point presentation and be golden like a shower.

Seeing that the following is a major concern:

Quote:
According to Human Rights Watch, the joint task force of the Nigerian military assigned to battle Boko Haram “has engaged in excessive use of force, physical abuse, secret detentions, extortion, burning of houses, stealing money during raids and extrajudicial killings of suspects.” In South Sudan, where civil war is raging, the U.S. has trained the Sudan People’s Liberation Army in the fight against Joseph Kony, the maniacal leader of the Lord’s Resistance Army. “Since the conflict began last December,” says John Ryle of the Rift Valley Institute, an independent research organization, “the South Sudan government has been criticized for the involvement of the S.P.L.A. in ethnic killings.” Once hard skills have been transferred, it’s difficult to predict how they will be used.
....this will likely just wind up being yet another circle jerk where we take a 3rd world army, try to get them to play by our gay rules, and then they get defeated by an enemy that doesn't play by the rules.

Extra-judicial killings is exactly what the doctor ordered- we should be encouraging that and teaching them how to do it better rather than giving them all kinds of human rights classes, which is what you know is going to happen.
__________________
Quote:
there’s nothing in our country anymore that seems to suggest that selfless service to the nation is not only appropriate, but required.”
- General John F. Kelley
19 Oct 2017
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 16 June 2014, 18:22
Tracy's Avatar
Tracy Tracy is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: West
Posts: 11,077
Meh. Lots of words. Again.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16 June 2014, 23:25
RB's Avatar
RB RB is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FAY
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
Meh. Lots of words. Again.
I'm hearing the trumpet of Custer's bugler........again.
__________________
“I was born for the storm, and a calm does not suit me.”
- Andrew Jackson -

~D-6606~
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17 June 2014, 04:24
Psyop Shaw's Avatar
Psyop Shaw Psyop Shaw is offline
Cloud bursting...
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CONUS
Posts: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
From BG Linder's mouth, "African's solving African problems"
He is not referring to CMO/HA. He is referring to South Sudan civil war, Al-Shabaab, AQAP, Boko Haram, LRA, boarder disputes, genocide, etc..

We train the African's, the African's do the deeds. Then every once in a blue moon we will toss in a few drone strikes or HVT raids.
__________________
"The only place success comes before work is in the dicitionary." - Airborne
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17 June 2014, 06:54
Hot Mess's Avatar
Hot Mess Hot Mess is offline
In Vino Veritas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Where you vacation
Posts: 10,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyop Shaw View Post
He is not referring to CMO/HA. He is referring to South Sudan civil war, Al-Shabaab, AQAP, Boko Haram, LRA, boarder disputes, genocide, etc..

We train the African's, the African's do the deeds. Then every once in a blue moon we will toss in a few drone strikes or HVT raids.
Oh, I didn't know that. I just read the SITREP's and CUB's...
__________________
Come on boys, you got to do it right, pray to the moon in the middle of the night

Last edited by The Fat Guy; 11 July 2014 at 03:47.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18 June 2014, 05:54
magician's Avatar
magician magician is offline
Whatever Sucks the Most
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 9,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
Edward Lansdale did this in the Philippines as well, but with greater success. If only he had written a book about how to do it...
My apologies. I was trying to respond to your post, and I completely raped it. It was not intentional. I apologize.

Anyway, I was wondering if you were being ironical.

Because Lansdale did write a book.

My copy was at one time one of my dearest possessions. Then I lost my library. That first edition was priceless, if only because of the inscription on the fly leaf.
__________________
Ranger Classes 12, 13, & 14-81: 1st PLT, "Bad 'Muthers," Co A, 2d Ranger Battalion, 1980-84.
SFQC 4-84: ODA 151, Co B, 2d Battalion, 1SFGA, 1984-86. SF Association: M-10547.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18 June 2014, 12:09
Stanley_White's Avatar
Stanley_White Stanley_White is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Downtown
Posts: 1,608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
BG Linder discusses SOF execution of White House policy in Africa. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/15/ma...reat.html?_r=1

Africa is not like the battlefields of past wars, we are not looking at winner territory but people. Although I don't know how that worked out for us in IEF/OIF. Also, no big foot prints in Africa. Thoughts?
Adds in red.

-Stan
__________________
-Stanley_White

All my life I wanted to go up in society. Where everything higher was legal, straight. But the higher I go, the more crooked it becomes. Where the hell does it end? -- Michael Corleone

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? -- Mark 8:36 KJV


Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right. Unless you were going all the way. -- Captain Willard
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 19 June 2014, 11:13
Fox33C1's Avatar
Fox33C1 Fox33C1 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYFB
Posts: 863
Africa- where things go to die (democracy, hopes, dreams, decency, people)

I think without having a more utilitarian mindset (whats in it for us) nationally (which I don't see til at least 2016(2024?) we will continue to make it up as we go. The direction of policy is "how does it play out on MSNBC and CNN? WTF is end-state and second order effects general?" That is how we get ourselves into an even bigger mess than the ME.

Do we want to shit the bed on the one continent with 60% of the worlds untapped resources. Of course the leftist ruling class thinks we in the working class should squander any future opportunity for the good of the "world" as long as it doesn't effect them, and they run everything.

In the light of future economic staleness and mouth breather political overlords, our ability to project power and influence will continue to decline(as planned). As we recede into irrelevance, others will fill the gap, and they will not be benign overlords as has been US policy.

We would be very wise to keep our profile low and foot print small. It will be all we can afford. I can't think of a better place for the 18 series MOS.

But honestly I see the Obama Doctrine setting the world on fire. Many of those fires just might be closer to home or long standing strategic partners that will supercede Africa.

I think a strategic re-consolidation from our unsustainable over extension is needed. Because of our shortsightedness from a national leadership level, we are going to have to let certain parts of the world burn. Do we have enough right now to support the PAC-rim and the EU from the threats they face?

I say NO and that Africa is just going to have to goto the back burner, where honestly it belongs
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20 June 2014, 10:19
Davelrrp Davelrrp is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 413
Africa is in dire need of many small Sam T. Cohen Specials delivered to specific population centers to avoid harming valuable wildlife.

Then clean up, and repurpose the infrastructure for gainful use.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 5 April 2018, 18:37
Rockville Rockville is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: VA
Posts: 1,060
He got promoted

Maj. Gen. James B. Linder, commander, Special Operations Joint Task Force-Afghanistan, U.S. Forces-Afghanistan/Special Operations Component Command-Afghanistan, Resolute Support Mission, Operation Freedom's Sentinel, Afghanistan, to chief of staff, U.S. Special Operations Command, MacDill Air Force Base, Florida.

Brig. Gen. Richard E. Angle, deputy commanding general, 1st Special Forces Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina, to deputy commanding general (Operations), U.S. Army Cyber Command, Fort Belvoir, Virginia.

Brig. Gen. Thomas R. Drew, deputy commanding general (Support), 2d Infantry Division (Combined), Eighth Army, Republic of Korea, to deputy commanding general, U.S. Army Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

Maj. Gen. James B. Jarrard, commander, Special Operations Joint Task Force-Operation Inherent Resolve, Operation Inherent Resolve, Kuwait, to director of operations, U.S. Special Operations Command, MacDill Air Force Base, Florida.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releases/News-Release-View/Article/1484784/general-officer-assignments/



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Mess View Post
BG Linder discusses SOF policy in Africa. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/15/ma...reat.html?_r=1

Africa is not like the battlefields of past wars, we are not looking at winner territory but people. Although I don't know how that worked out for us in IEF/OIF. Also, no big foot prints in Africa. Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 5 April 2018, 19:34
Max Power Max Power is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: PNW
Posts: 3,592
Wow. Some good names in good positions IMO.
__________________
"… what is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 14:03.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET