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  #41  
Old 30 January 2018, 08:23
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And back then you could throw down 2 Ranger burgers and a 12 pack, and it didn't matter. Age catches up to you if you don't take care of yourself. Nice to see that you are in just as good as shape if not better than you were back when we were young and dumb!

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Hell yeah! Terry would 'Buy' and I would 'Fly' out to 4 Winds! LOL! Yeah, Basal Metabolic Rate at 20, combined with the TDEE of being in Bn, allowed a lot of food to be eaten. I read Michael Phelps ate 12,000kcals a day when training. Calories In/Calories Out, Therodynamics, Math - we're just 'Heat Pumps'
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  #42  
Old 30 January 2018, 08:28
Gray Rhyno Gray Rhyno is offline
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And back then you could throw down 2 Ranger burgers and a 12 pack, and it didn't matter. Age catches up to you if you don't take care of yourself. Nice to see that you are in just as good as shape if not better than you were back when we were young and dumb!

Check your PMs
I remember being a 21 YO corporal, and after Thursday night field days my barracks roommate and I could split a 12 pack of beer and a XL pizza from Dominos and not think twice about it.
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  #43  
Old 30 January 2018, 08:38
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Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
Started tracking this morning and figured my calorie requirements. When I'm trying to figure my 500-1000 cal deficit, should i subtract my workout cals from my food cals to get my actual number? My primary cardio is treadmill and it tells me cals burnt at the end of my run.
IMO don't worry about trying to figure out how many calories a workout burns, etc... It's a moving target and those watches/machines, etc... way overestimate. When you go to get a VERY ROUGH starting point with those formulas, the 'Activity Level' you input is all your exercise - so those numbers it spits out are inclusive - just start there.

Then just 'do it' and wait two weeks and then weigh and measure. If you are dropping 1-2 pounds/week, you are on track. If not, drop 100kcals - if you lost 5, add 100kcals (you're trying to maintain your muscle mass - which is why you are eating 2g per kilogram body-weight of protein)

Also, the first 1,2,3? weeks, if you are starting after a long time - will be a lot of glycogen and water contributing to the scale loss - I like to kind of not start being anal about the numbers until that settles down. My current cut started on Dec 26th. I did an initial weigh in, tape measure, and caliper plot, but then didn't check again until Jan 9th - tons of water, glycogen, and sodium over the holidays - waited for that stuff to balance out.
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  #44  
Old 30 January 2018, 08:52
Gsniper Gsniper is online now
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OK. I'm not too caught up in the numbers, just trying to educate myself a bit and do it smarter rather than harder. I ate a fair amount of food yesterday and was still 950 cal below my target number. I havn't lost much weight since I started two months ago, but I've taken three notches on my belt.
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  #45  
Old 30 January 2018, 11:24
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
OK. I'm not too caught up in the numbers, just trying to educate myself a bit and do it smarter rather than harder. I ate a fair amount of food yesterday and was still 950 cal below my target number. I havn't lost much weight since I started two months ago, but I've taken three notches on my belt.
Awesome.

I personally do not care about the weight so much as fat vs muscle distribution.

Think how much easier the heart has to pump now with less fat bulk.

Less fat bulk means less volume (looking fat).

And less insulin resistance.

And less estrogen. Fat contains aromatase which converts testosterone to estrogen/estradiol, in men and women.
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  #46  
Old 30 January 2018, 11:29
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Belts are an awesome measuring tool. I bought a belt, and still have it, at my fattest and still wear it. There is some pleasure in having to cut more holes so it can do its job.

Keep it up!
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  #47  
Old 30 January 2018, 13:37
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Terry would 'Buy' and I would 'Fly' out to 4 Winds!


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  #48  
Old 30 January 2018, 18:32
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Polypro, great thread. I have a few questions for you as time permits. I'm 55 and coming off a shoulder surgery in December 2016 and being a dumb ass, hernia surgery in December 2017. May 2017 I was released from PT for the shoulder and both the dr and my PT said lose weight, like yesterday. I was 255 to start, I'm currently at 220. I've gradually increased my lifting routine and do a boxing workout 4x weekly. Depending upon the weather, I started back on my mtn bike ride 1-2x weekly in August and/or walk 4-5 miles 1-2x weekly.


Due to the hernia and resulting pre/post op recovery I couldn't lift or engage in any activity except walking for about 9 weeks total. Basically mid November to January 1, 2018.

During the layoff I lost a few pounds, but added about .75 inches around the belly button measure and lost inches around my shoulders/chest ect. Obviously muscle mass loss, but kinda impressive to see what serious walking can do.

Diet and macros are solid, and relatively easy to maintain. I measure/photograph weekly and have seen gradual loss in the hips and abdominal area (I measure at the belly button and 2" above and below). Prior the hernia setback I was maintaining or seeing a slight improvement in arm muscle mass. Shoulder and chest measurements reflected some loss, but I definitely see more leanness.

My goal is to get down to 200-205 by mid summer, which will be easy to accomplish. But my main goal is to drop 4-5 inches around the abdomen. I started at 45" and now I'm 39". I watch my macros and have seen solid progress in dropping both pounds and inches. The improvement in my blood work is off the chart good.


The boxing workout is definitely a killer HIIT, but that's about it for me on high intensity stuff. It's a 15 minute dynamic warm-up, (its actually tougher for me) than the eight 3 minute rounds on the heavy bag with a one minute active recovery "rest", then 15 minutes of core and 5 minutes of speed bag work.

I do an occasional spin class, but get less and less out of it since I started back on my mtn bike.

I think my lack of nutrition info is holding me back somewhat so I'll definitely look into your list of reference material. What do you think is the key to really burning off the remaining inches of abdominal fat? I hate to admit I was 45" around the midsection when I started. I tweak my macros as I plateau, but wondered about your thoughts on burning off the remaining fat, especially as it related to diet. Any ideas on carb cycling or other stuff that has worked for you?
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  #49  
Old 31 January 2018, 07:20
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Litts?
Yup. He calls me every few years. DH met him in a bar a couple years ago and they both called me, LOL!
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  #50  
Old 31 January 2018, 07:59
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Originally Posted by labman2 View Post
What do you think is the key to really burning off the remaining inches of abdominal fat? I hate to admit I was 45" around the midsection when I started. I tweak my macros as I plateau, but wondered about your thoughts on burning off the remaining fat, especially as it related to diet. Any ideas on carb cycling or other stuff that has worked for you?
Abdominal, Oblique, and Lower Back Fat is what hangs on the longest in males. The only way to get rid of it, is to lose it every where else so the body has no choice but to tap into those areas for the remaining energy requirements.... and it may never go completely away at healthy BF% levels. Physique competitors get down to 5% BF or less - not healthy.

I'm not a big believer in "Carb Cycling" - carbs and insulin are not the enemy - they make you go longer and lift heavier. You could try "Intermittent Fasting" on a 16/8 schedule (finish last meal around 6 or 7PM, have next one around 10 or 11AM) - it also has health benefits (but isn't for anyone looking for MAX performance). I do it. Check here:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=dqt....0.Odym2exmSZ0

Staying in a deficit for a really long time can somewhat hamper fat loss as the body ramps down its metabolic rate (survival mechanism). The hunger hormones Ghrelin and Leptin also increase/drop respectively - which makes you "cheat" or go off plan and lowers the metabolic rate. You can try a 7/3 or 11/3 cycle where you are in a deficit for 7 or 11 days, and then go back to "maintenance" calories for 3 days to try to bump up Leptin (and also psychologically get a break). You just need to get a good handle on what your maintenance level is.

Try fat in the lower healthy range of .5g/kg - fat is the only macro that the body doesn't have to do anything to, to store. .5g/kg is still enough for all the hormonal benefits, etc... Fish, Almonds/Walnuts, Eggs, Avocado and Olive Oil, etc...
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  #51  
Old 31 January 2018, 08:31
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Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Start here as a baseline (I just used the first Google result for 'TDEE Calculator' - there are tons, and apps too - use what you like)

https://tdeecalculator.net/result.ph...70&act=1.2&f=1

I assumed mid-30's, change accordingly. Also adjust activity level if needed, from Sedentary.

Get a food tracking app and learn to use it and track everything. "Intuitive Eating" is F'ng BS - most of the American population "intuitively eats" - they're called the "Obesity Epidemic".

This is a very rough starting point only - you're scale, and especially a cloth tape measure barely denting the skin around your gut, will be how you dial it in.

You are 93kg. I personally would adjust my macros as 2g/kg Protein, 0.5-1g/kg Fat, and the rest Carbs, up to your kcal limit. To lose fat, you need to eat 500-1000kcals UNDER your TDEE. Go as low as you can stand without cheating on it. Even a couple hundred under will still drop fat - it will just take longer.

Shoot for 1-2lbs loss on the scale per week and smaller circles around your gut with the tape. Always weigh and measure on the same day/time and same condition (before food and after the bathroom is good).

Running... LOL, you want to look like a Kenyan? Cardio is for your heart (muy importante), but it doesn't really "burn" a lot of fat while you are doing it. The increased metabolic rate from it (and lifting heavy ass weights!!!) is what contributes to the negative energy balance (combined with your caloric deficit) for the other 22hrs of the day. Walk briskly for 45min EVERY DAY - that'll do it. Or hop on a non-impact machine. Hit a heavy bag as fast as you can for 15 seconds and rest 45 - repeat (called HIIT) - will smoke your bags. Get creative.

You need to lift weights, period. Find a $10/month gym chain close by. You can start off with bodyweight stuff, but eventually you'll have to hit the metal. Muscle tissue is what uses the fat for energy - the more you have, the better.

Exercises and how you program them is another topic.

Bottom line is it takes time - you didn't put on that 25 overnight, it ain't coming off overnight either. Doing the above, it will take 12-24 (3-6months) weeks to lose that 25. And don't look "too" much at the scale - resistance training will add weight, while the fat loss is occurring - worry more about the tape measure and the mirror and how clothes fit - especially Jeans.

At my worst, I couldn't button these 44" shorts. 34's are loose currently.

100% disagree with your cardio assessment. Iíll crush weights and see minimal fat loss, but once I start running I get results, especially sprints. Iíll do 2-3 days of sprints. 1:1, then 1:30:1:30, then 3:1:30. Followed by 2-3 days of long slow runs. Iíll also road bike when weather permits.

Iíve found for nutrition the first step is finding out your RMR. Once you have that you can work the TDEE calc. Iíve eaten 3500 cals a day (consuming 250g carbs) and have seen loss fat and put on muscle. So all those people that are pooing carbs, well, whatever works for them.
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  #52  
Old 31 January 2018, 11:03
labman2 labman2 is offline
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Poly, thank you very much for all the info you've posted. I spent too many hours last night going through many of the authors you listed.

The idea of going off and on maintenance/caloric deficit makes sense and I really liked how Israetel explained the long term advantage of doing so. That process makes sense intuitively- the body accommodates exercise, why wouldn't it accommodate dieting. You need to adjust your macro plan for lifting to see the most beneficial results, the same applies to diet. I just never made the correlation.

I got tired of looking for fact based nutrition, only to see my google fu result in way too much bro science bs. So, all the info is much appreciated.
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  #53  
Old 31 January 2018, 11:27
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100% disagree with your cardio assessment. I’ll crush weights and see minimal fat loss, but once I start running I get results, especially sprints. I’ll do 2-3 days of sprints. 1:1, then 1:30:1:30, then 3:1:30. Followed by 2-3 days of long slow runs. I’ll also road bike when weather permits.

Sprints are a big deal for me as well. But when you say weights, are you talking circuit training, metcon style or free weights in the traditional sense?
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  #54  
Old 31 January 2018, 11:31
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100% disagree with your cardio assessment. I’ll crush weights and see minimal fat loss, but once I start running I get results, especially sprints. I’ll do 2-3 days of sprints. 1:1, then 1:30:1:30, then 3:1:30. Followed by 2-3 days of long slow runs. I’ll also road bike when weather permits.

I’ve found for nutrition the first step is finding out your RMR. Once you have that you can work the TDEE calc. I’ve eaten 3500 cals a day (consuming 250g carbs) and have seen loss fat and put on muscle. So all those people that are pooing carbs, well, whatever works for them.
I think you may have misunderstood me, or I conveyed what I meant, poorly. Of course *adding* sprints to weight training worked better = greater 24 hour energy deficit as long as energy intake remained the same. I said/meant to say that the act of doing cardio itself, for the 15 (HIIT) to 45 (Walk/Jog) minutes out of 24hours, doesn't really "burn that much fat" in and of itself. The EPOC (Exercise Post Oxygen Consumption) and NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis) that is the result of doing cardio, over the other 23 hours of the day, is why cardio helps, in addition to directly exercising the heart muscle which is good for not dying. I do some form of cardio every day. But a brisk walk, up and down some hills for 45 minutes, is just as good, if not better, than "going running" - especially if you have heavy Squats and Deadlifts in your program. Now - if you want to be a marathoner or a tri-athlete, then you'll need to run - but your heavy lifts will suffer - pick your poison. Sprints are awesome if they don't injure you (I always pull a quad), and if you recover enough to Squat and Deadlift (if that's important) then cool.

Last edited by Polypro; 31 January 2018 at 11:37.
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  #55  
Old 31 January 2018, 11:40
kosty kosty is offline
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Poly, thanks for the tips and reminders. I re-started counting calories today, and will do a slow restart on workouts by the end of the week.
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  #56  
Old 31 January 2018, 11:53
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Thanks for all the suggestions Poly. My grandfather used to say if you're going to spend an hour chopping wood you should spend 50 minutes of it sharpening your ax.

I was flogging away with a dull ax, which will eventually work, but damn it's hard on the arms. I'm a good bit more precise with my plan now.
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  #57  
Old 1 February 2018, 06:32
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Eric's a PhD researcher, USAF Vet, former Powerlifter, and current Natural (no Anabolic drugs) Bodybuilder and Coach. Here is probably the latest research on Cardio, as it applies to what most of us are probably after - Low but healthy BF%, Maximum Muscle Mass, and Maximum Strength. If you *need* to have the absolute best cardiovascular condition (Marathons, Tri-Athlons, etc...) than sport specificity dictates you need to prioritize that over muscle and strength, so YMMV.

http://3dmusclejourney.com/podcast/34/
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  #58  
Old 1 February 2018, 06:34
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No prob guys, I plan on making it to 120 while still Deadlifting, so I pass along what I learned/learn.
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  #59  
Old 1 February 2018, 07:21
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No prob guys, I plan on making it to 120 while still Deadlifting, so I pass along what I learned/learn.
In your past "Ranger" life, I'm thinking you should at least subtract 20 and be happy with a 100.
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  #60  
Old 1 February 2018, 09:02
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Great thread. I'm at my all time fattest and out of shape right now, working on getting back. Doing the Starting Strength novice () program, a little extra accessory stuff, jumping rope and hitting the "ball on band" during my rest periods at the end. Cardio is terrible right now.

I use Jefit to track my workouts and Lose It to track my weight. Several years back I used Lose It to obsessively track calories and holy shit does that work.
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