SOCNET

Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26 January 2018, 11:36
GPC's Avatar
GPC GPC is offline
Bitter old man.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LOFD
Posts: 6,001
The Gear over Training Mentality.

I have really been noticing this trend lately. A good majority of folks are really caught up in gear will make me a better shooter mentality. I have seen people with an entry level AR with more in accessories than they paid for the rifle.

Example younger friend of mine buys an AR. He ask me for advice on what optics etc. My reply " Buy some mags,ammo and a cleaning kit. Learn the Irons." He gave me look like I killed his puppy. I have also had first time handgun buyers insist they need to send a Glock to SAI etc. instead of shooting it for a while. Try to tell these folks for a novice shooter a stock weapon will serve them well until they figure out what they want.

Most folks don't need a $3k AR more like a $1k AR and $2k in training. Seems like I'm in the minority with this way of thinking.

The part that concerns me is some folks will maybe shoot one mag through a weapon then buy a cheap holster and CCW it. No shit I met a dude who had been carrying his Bersa for six months before he shot it. The POS wouldn't fire one mag without a malfunction.Which he had no clue what to do.


How do we go about combating this mentality? I tells folks tattoos,beards and cool guy stuff doesn't win fights.
I kinda blame the personality cults on you tube for some of this.

I'm sure LE and Mil have some of this mentality also.

Getting like the A-team at the range. Bullets flying nothing getting hit.
__________________
Steel Rain Brings The Pain!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 26 January 2018, 11:45
Agoge's Avatar
Agoge Agoge is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shadow Gallery
Posts: 7,174
I don't think there is any way to eliminate the cool guy factor as long as a war is going on and the "military" look is cool.

I actually went to a qualification a while ago and had a guy on the side of me with an AR, ACOG, and Bi-Pod. Get this...we were only shooting from 50 yards at that time. I had a cold rifle with iron sights. He qualified by two points above the minimum and couldn't understand it. Myself and the guy on the other side of him max it out and he can't understand.

The dude is a gun-junky nerd with absolutely no shooting ability and truly believes the equipment makes the shooter.

Chalk another victim up to the cool-guy side!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 26 January 2018, 12:33
gavin's Avatar
gavin gavin is online now
Unemployed Stunt Double
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: On a plane...
Posts: 6,819
Pat Macnamara has some good things to say about "Train as you fight."
__________________
Lifeís barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 26 January 2018, 12:59
DB8541 DB8541 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 866
Gear is only as effective as the skill level of the person using it, maintaining it and carrying it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 26 January 2018, 14:38
Silverbullet's Avatar
Silverbullet Silverbullet is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bunker
Posts: 14,933
I like the people who argue over who's sling is better or more tactical. lol
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 26 January 2018, 14:49
leopardprey's Avatar
leopardprey leopardprey is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC View Post
I have really been noticing this trend lately. A good majority of folks are really caught up in gear will make me a better shooter mentality. I have seen people with an entry level AR with more in accessories than they paid for the rifle.

Example younger friend of mine buys an AR. He ask me for advice on what optics etc. My reply " Buy some mags,ammo and a cleaning kit. Learn the Irons." He gave me look like I killed his puppy. I have also had first time handgun buyers insist they need to send a Glock to SAI etc. instead of shooting it for a while. Try to tell these folks for a novice shooter a stock weapon will serve them well until they figure out what they want.

Most folks don't need a $3k AR more like a $1k AR and $2k in training. Seems like I'm in the minority with this way of thinking.

The part that concerns me is some folks will maybe shoot one mag through a weapon then buy a cheap holster and CCW it. No shit I met a dude who had been carrying his Bersa for six months before he shot it. The POS wouldn't fire one mag without a malfunction.Which he had no clue what to do.


How do we go about combating this mentality? I tells folks tattoos,beards and cool guy stuff doesn't win fights.
I kinda blame the personality cults on you tube for some of this.

I'm sure LE and Mil have some of this mentality also.

Getting like the A-team at the range. Bullets flying nothing getting hit.
Cory and Erikas fault......
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Look Sharp, Act Sharp, Be Sharp - But don't cut yourself!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26 January 2018, 14:52
leopardprey's Avatar
leopardprey leopardprey is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,601
Good post GPC.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Look Sharp, Act Sharp, Be Sharp - But don't cut yourself!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26 January 2018, 15:44
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,236
IMO --- It's an offshoot of the modern peacock syndrome. For the average civvie, who goes to the range and shoots paper from a bench or maybe takes a 2-day carbine class at the most in his life, they see all the guys that are masters of their craft (Movies, YouTube videos with the big trainers) using certain weapons/gear/equipment/flashy equip and therefore associate all that gear with equating being a rockstar with the gun. So to mimick this, they too buy all the flashy bling bling so that when they go to the range with that stuff they hope that people will see them as the same type of BAMF. That they probably know what they're doing because that other person saw a real pro with the same setup. Conversely, anyone who has a rifle with irons is probably not a good person to talk to about guns/tactics/etc because "they don't have a $5k HK416 they got from HKParts.net --so they probably don't know anything".

Just like how suburbanites will willingly go into crippling debt to get that flashy BMW/etc they can park in the driveway to give off the "look at how successful I am!" vibe to the neighbors. Similar to the people who post on social media what they WANT their lives to be (selfies at the beach, 'look at me here at a club I'm so popular!', etc) --- meanwhile their real lives are nothing to brag about and they hate their job and live their mediocre lives just like every single other person in the tri-state area in their particular demographic. It's all about image, not real substance. Same thing as the range warriors.

The real story is that the pros are masters of the fundamentals and have evolved to the point that the cool toys are simply enhancing and making their finely honed skills as sharp as possible. They were masters before they got all the gear, not the other way around. People are always looking for shortcuts to being a 'top performer' whether in the business world or whatever their recreational hobby is. So when you tell them to start with the basics, they get angry because 'it's not supposed to be that way'. They want the Ferarri to turn them into the race car driver --- and not be a race car driver first who then gets a Ferarri.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26 January 2018, 15:52
8654maine 8654maine is offline
Another pool cleaner
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 4,542
There's nothing modern about it.

It's always been there.

Whether wooden spear, bone axe, bronze sword, steel mace, muzzle loader, semi-auto, plasma rifle, etc, tools will evolve.

Skills will also.

I'm glad there a shit ton of dudes with shiny gear. I'll have good pickings should the need arise.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26 January 2018, 15:53
leopardprey's Avatar
leopardprey leopardprey is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,601
Well , you buy me a Ferrari, I can guarantee you I will be a better driver in a month or two.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Look Sharp, Act Sharp, Be Sharp - But don't cut yourself!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 26 January 2018, 15:55
leopardprey's Avatar
leopardprey leopardprey is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,601
Now as far as optics go, I need them. No more irons for me as cannot see them.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Look Sharp, Act Sharp, Be Sharp - But don't cut yourself!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 26 January 2018, 16:28
GPC's Avatar
GPC GPC is offline
Bitter old man.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LOFD
Posts: 6,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Now as far as optics go, I need them. No more irons for me as cannot see them.
You have the experience to make an informed purchase. Unlike others who figure if it works for so an so, it should work for me.

My one friend thought it was odd I drove to my shooting spot wearing Poly plates. I explained to him as they are thicker I wanted to see how it would effect my driving. He couldn't grasp that SHTF is not the time to adjust gear. Learned that in Iraq. Spent a lot of down time tweaking my kit for different positions in the vehicle. And finding the best place to tape a maglight to my weapon.

SB, I remember when tan 3 point slings were the shit in 04-05 lol.
__________________
Steel Rain Brings The Pain!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 26 January 2018, 15:56
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 7,236
Haha, I think when you buy a Lambo or similar supercar (for the first time) the dealers usually make you take a special class on how to drive it because people often wreck the damn things fairly early on because they simply cannot handle all the power. It's an entirely different class of vehicle than what 99% of all people have ever experienced.

At least that's what I read. Probably not going to be something I experience in my life, but who knows.......
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 26 January 2018, 18:26
Hot Mess's Avatar
Hot Mess Hot Mess is offline
In Vino Veritas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Where you vacation
Posts: 11,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Haha, I think when you buy a Lambo or similar supercar (for the first time) the dealers usually make you take a special class on how to drive it because people often wreck the damn things fairly early on because they simply cannot handle all the power. It's an entirely different class of vehicle than what 99% of all people have ever experienced.

At least that's what I read. Probably not going to be something I experience in my life, but who knows.......
They do not. Maybe some dealerships have offered classses. But itís America where having more money than talent is the norm. With all the nannies of the newer cars you have to be far past the line between hard and stupid to wreck them.

The qual I have to pass for work is not impossible, but it ainít easy, and we shoot it with stock pistol sights and a Comp M. Thereís one thing I know that works, trigger corntol and grip. You master that and youíre golden. Of course a really light trigger doesnít hurt
__________________
Come on boys, you got to do it right, pray to the moon in the middle of the night
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 26 January 2018, 16:04
steve steve is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 633
My first, and go to AR is a Del-Ton with a Tru-Glo red dot. My one shooting buddy laughs at it (and me) but I hit baseballs at 100yds with it as his 50yd target looks like he is testing a new choke on his shotgun instead of the Daniel Defense with ACOG, lights, laser, and grip pod. I'm not a gunslinger so I don't need gunslinger gear.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 26 January 2018, 16:20
Expatmedic's Avatar
Expatmedic Expatmedic is online now
Anesthetized User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,269
To paraphrase SOTB:

Ammo, ammo, ammo. Trigger time, trigger time, trigger time.

To keep my skills up I put together a 10/22 Target, 10K of CCI Mini-Mags and started shooting Appleseed events.
__________________
Memories are just where you laid them
Drag the waters till the depths give up their dead
What did you expect to find
Was there something you left behind
Don't you remember

Support SOCNET.

Last edited by Expatmedic; 26 January 2018 at 16:27.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 26 January 2018, 16:33
GPC's Avatar
GPC GPC is offline
Bitter old man.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LOFD
Posts: 6,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve View Post
My first, and go to AR is a Del-Ton with a Tru-Glo red dot. My one shooting buddy laughs at it (and me) but I hit baseballs at 100yds with it as his 50yd target looks like he is testing a new choke on his shotgun instead of the Daniel Defense with ACOG, lights, laser, and grip pod. I'm not a gunslinger so I don't need gunslinger gear.
Good post, I seen dudes who can do a mag flip like a champ. But can't insert a fresh one.

Sounds like he needs a rearview mirror on his rifle. So he can check his 6 and hair.
__________________
Steel Rain Brings The Pain!

Last edited by GPC; 26 January 2018 at 16:48.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 26 January 2018, 16:27
Sharky's Avatar
Sharky Sharky is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: SOCNET
Posts: 19,420
As a good friend once said...."Everybody wants to be an Operator and wear all the cool kit, but nobody wants to walk 40 miles."
__________________
I was born my papa's son
When I hit the ground I was on the run
I had one glad hand and the other behind
You can have yours, just give me mine
When the hound dog barkin' in the black of the night
Stick my hand in my pocket, everything's all right

-ZZ Top
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 26 January 2018, 17:03
Chimo's Avatar
Chimo Chimo is offline
FIDO
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 3,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
As a good friend once said...."Everybody wants to be an Operator and wear all the cool kit, but nobody wants to walk 40 miles."
Truth.


I was at an outdoor range and there were two rather portly fellows shooting. One had an AR with more attachments than Sharkys vibrator, and wearing a plate carrier complete with plates. And don't forget the flag baseball hat. Fuckers couldn't hit the target at 25 yards.
__________________
Quote:
I'd shoot a chipmunk if it kicked my door in wearing a ski mask.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 30 January 2018, 13:31
JAFO's Avatar
JAFO JAFO is offline
33,024 - R.I.P.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Not so "Great" Plains
Posts: 3,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimo View Post
I was at an outdoor range and there were two rather portly fellows shooting. One had an AR with more attachments than Sharkys vibrator, and wearing a plate carrier complete with plates. And don't forget the flag baseball hat. Fuckers couldn't hit the target at 25 yards.
I heard Sharky's vibrator accessories were in your OODA loop.

Some of us in this forum have just returned from SHOT Show, and can attest that the obi-wannabe syndrome was everywhere. Even checking into the hotel, I snapped a pic of a dude wearing a shemahg and a MOLLE covered-highspeed-twatwaffle- backpack. The show was filled with guys like this. Tacti-beards, full sleeve tats (new ink) and MOLLE packs were abound, yet many had no clue when discussing applications other than those described on YouTube or "The Facebook".

There were many new small businesses there that seemed to be solutions in search of a problem. For example, new muzzle brakes/flash suppressors. "Oh, you have a machine shop, and make replacement parts for 2002 BMWs as well?...cool". Or the new magnetic enclosure that's quieter than Velcro but starts at $30/ft. The guy tried to convince me that it had rare earth magnets (sigh).
Or, the new GAU styled 5.56 minigun that the precious little booth bunny refused to answer any questions, citing "We can't release that information" or "I can't talk about that". That's OK. I'll just give the guys at Dillon or Crane a call to see what they have to say about patent infringement.

The show demonstrated that there are folks out there that will buy the newest shiny thing, regardless of usefulness.
__________________
"It's understanding that allows people like us to tolerate a person such as yourself." -Ferris Bueller
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 23:38.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
© SOCNET 1996-2018