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  #81  
Old 25 April 2018, 13:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I'm still not sold on red dots on pistols (for me). I've been shooting a G17 MOS with a RMR for a year. Really opens up the distance that a pistol can be employed, but I am really slow acquiring the dot at close range.

I think I would have to go "all red dot," and re-train on how I present the pistol to the target in order to get faster on close range work.
Work this out in dry fire. Put something small on an otherwise blank section of wall (small post-it, sticker, etc) to use as a target. Focus on the target. Work your draw stroke, and instead of shifting focus to the front sight on the press-out, keep your focus on the target and bring front sight (and really the dot) to your eye.

The great thing about the dot is that it allows you to keep a threat-focused plane of vision and focus, without alternating your focus between threat and front sight. This creates a huge speed benefit in visual processing and reacting to that processing. The hard thing is you're overcoming 20+ years of doing it that way.

This is THE hurdle for RDS handgun learning by an already well-trained shooter, in my experience. Once you overcome it, it's an absolute game-changer and you start looking at sending every slide you own off to get milled for an RMR or DPP.
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  #82  
Old 25 April 2018, 19:35
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I've seen quite a few the past year or so.
None on any dedicated or issued weapons - all personal weapons.
They are no-doubt trending.

Like anything else - I'm observing and learning prior to critique and evaluation.

I was that cocky boot Corporal more than 25 years ago with a new M9 across my chest [in a US Calvary leather 1911 holster] proclaiming to my peers at least we didn't get issued a 'plastic' 9mm [like the euro foreign service soldiers we were training with].

Today - That same Austrian pistol [in 3 variants and two different calibers] has been my Go-to Standard now longer than any other pistol platform, to include the M9 and my beloved 1911[s] it replaced ... and I ride a German motorcycle.


Change is the only constant and evolution is relevant.
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  #83  
Old 25 April 2018, 20:14
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I don't know anything about this guy or his Company but he seems to echo a lot of the same things I've read here.


https://www.trex-arms.com/the-beginners-guide-to-pistol-reddots/
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  #84  
Old 25 April 2018, 22:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
I don't know anything about this guy or his Company but he seems to echo a lot of the same things I've read here.


https://www.trex-arms.com/the-beginners-guide-to-pistol-reddots/
He's a giant d-bag who's father runs a cult.
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  #85  
Old 25 April 2018, 22:56
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I've heard anecdotal accounts of Aimpoint T-1s not being up to the abuse of being slide-mounted. I do believe that a circular optic is easier for the eye to pick up than a square optic. IMO that is why EOTech puts a circle around the dot (instead of just a single dot in the squarish aperture).
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  #86  
Old 26 April 2018, 05:30
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Originally Posted by Believeraz View Post
He's a giant d-bag who's father runs a cult.
Thanks for the heads up.
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  #87  
Old 26 April 2018, 05:39
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I'm looking at a guide rod laser. I think I could effectively bring it on target quicker. However, I don't know about related malfunctions due to the spring?

Thoughts?

Here's one example:

https://www.amazon.com/Lasermax-Guide-Rod-Laser-Glock/dp/B07CKMV96G
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  #88  
Old 26 April 2018, 06:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
I don't know anything about this guy or his Company but he seems to echo a lot of the same things I've read here.


https://www.trex-arms.com/the-beginners-guide-to-pistol-reddots/
Poser who talks bullshit. He was discussed in gear over training thread.
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  #89  
Old 26 April 2018, 07:02
DaveP DaveP is offline
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Originally Posted by glockcqc View Post
6" steel tgts @ 12, 20, & 25yds.
glockcqc, nice shooting.
What type of steel setup do you have there?

Thanks.
DaveP
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  #90  
Old 26 April 2018, 09:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I've heard anecdotal accounts of Aimpoint T-1s not being up to the abuse of being slide-mounted. I do believe that a circular optic is easier for the eye to pick up than a square optic. IMO that is why EOTech puts a circle around the dot (instead of just a single dot in the squarish aperture).
The human eye naturally centers circles within circles. It's why experienced barrel straighteners can hold alignments of under .005 over 30 inches by eye and open sight rifle shooters can hold sub-MOA groups (on distinct targets). The optic doesn't help you aim better, it helps you perceive targets better.

Obviously, pistol sights are not aperture style, so this does not apply. S/F....Ken M
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  #91  
Old 26 April 2018, 18:34
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Steel

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
glockcqc, nice shooting.
What type of steel setup do you have there?

Thanks.
DaveP
http://www.lvsteeltargets.com/

6" circle, 1/2" AR500, on a stick.

Good shooting
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  #92  
Old 26 April 2018, 19:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
Try punching out just below the target and let the whole package drift up into your field of view. This always brings the dot right to my eye. With practice, it is quicker than fixed sights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
For me, I had to learn to just not go looking for the dot. Hard to explain but....When I try to anticipate when and where the dot should be, it's not there. But, if I just push the muzzle into the target like I normally would with iron sights, the dot is just there when it needs to be. You have to remember that it's not like the front sight where you can pick it up on the way out to the target because you don't have alignment of the dot directly between your eye and the target yet. That doesn't happen until you are fully extended. But that's what I was trying to do, and when I wasn't seeing it on the way out I was starting the dot hunt before I was even fully extended. So, I had to learn to wait until I am fully extended and pushing into the target like I always do, then once everything comes into alignment at full extension, the dot will be there. If you do like I was doing and start wanting to see the dot during extension, you wind up fucking yourself up because now you are changing how you extend in an effort to find the dot. Then you wind up at full extension all fucked up and you have to hesitate while you play the up down left right game.

At least that's what worked for me in my head. Hope it makes sense.
Thank you both for for taking the time to type this out. Looking for the dot was exactly what I was doing. I started to pick it up quicker, but thereís still a whole lot more work to do. I very very slowly practiced unholstering, acquiring then firing. Picking up the dot started to get easier and easier with each sequence. Although Iím going to have to get an RMR on a 17 or a 19 because shooting that damn 10mm started to get real annoying at about round 25, and that was some really watered down ammo. Thank you again.
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  #93  
Old 27 April 2018, 08:09
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Something that worked for me was practicing my presentation with my eyes closed and then opening them to see if the dot was there...
Nope ??
...close my eyes and present the gun again - rinse and repeat until it feels natural

Lots of people unintentionally drop their head just a tad to 'find' the sites - practicing a presentation that puts the gun in your face without the urge to drop your vision down to the sights will speed up the muscle memory you need to put the site in front of your face when you bring up the gun.

Once you have retrained your presentation, you will notice that your recoil control tends to put the dot back into your view as well.


I'm still not ready to put a dot on an everyday/concealed carry gun but they are a giant improvement over the 'YUGE' tasco red dots that were popular with IPSC shooters back in the 1990's
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  #94  
Old 27 April 2018, 17:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
I'm looking at a guide rod laser.
I used to shoot a lot of USPSA, and saw many guys bring a pistol mounted laser to a local match, just to see what they could do with it. To a man, every single one of them shot horribly, even though often times they were pretty good shots. By the end of a couple of stages, they were still turning it on, but you could tell they had thrown in the towel and went back to using the iron sights. Much of the time, they couldn't even find the laser in the day light on brown cardboard USPSA targets.

I believe the real utility of a laser it its "intimidation factor," especially for non-military types.

As far as acquiring the dot, I find that most people that are pretty good with irons, expect to pick up a gun with an RMR or whatever and in short order be experts, "...isn't this supposed to be faster?" The reality is, they got good with irons either after a LOT of dry fire or a LOT of live fire or most likely if they are real good, both.

So to expect to change platforms and not have to put in the work is not very realistic. If you have been following this thread, most of the people offering advice, mention they too had issues at first, but stuck with it, and now almost all of them state they are faster, if not much faster, with the dot.

Of course, not everyone falls under all the universe's rules...
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  #95  
Old 30 April 2018, 20:25
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I am running a Crimson Trace Railmaster 206 green laser; liking it. Plus, with the current rebate, I received a free red laser model I was able to pass on to a Sailor in my shop.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
I'm looking at a guide rod laser. I think I could effectively bring it on target quicker. However, I don't know about related malfunctions due to the spring?

Thoughts?

Here's one example:

https://www.amazon.com/Lasermax-Guide-Rod-Laser-Glock/dp/B07CKMV96G
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  #96  
Old 30 April 2018, 23:13
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Thanks. Both of you! I'm all over the 19X, gonna order some mags in advance.
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  #97  
Old 8 June 2018, 00:29
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Took the red dot for pistols class today, instructed by Scott “Jedi” Jedlinski. I only have a red dot on my Glock 20, so shooting that all day wasn’t all that great. But, the instructor gave some good information and finding the dot isn’t an issue. I was able to get my draw and shot time way, way down while using the dot. My average time from 15 yards to steel was about 1.47 a (with retention holster). I think shooting 9mm and working on it I’ll improve. Big fan of the dot. If any of you are not aware, Trijicon offers a big discount to firearms instructors.
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  #98  
Old 9 June 2018, 07:59
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I shot the local Action Pistol course the last weekend in May with my G-19 and RMR. 14th out of ~55 shooters.

I was using an outside the waistband 2A holster and mag pouch under a cover garment. I'll take it, considering most everyone else was running race guns and holsters.

I ended up 4th in accuracy(Points down), though the three guys above me were significantly slower.

It was the first match I have shot with the RMR and G-19. If I get to another match this year, maybe I can increase the speed a bit. Definitely helps to wait until full presentation to look for the dot.
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  #99  
Old 12 June 2018, 10:38
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G19 Mods

My latest include stippling, undercut, finger groves removed, Agency Arms magwell, Agency Arms trigger and some trigger polishing.
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File Type: jpg G19 06-18.jpg (108.2 KB, 73 views)
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  #100  
Old 12 June 2018, 11:47
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My latest include stippling, undercut, finger groves removed, Agency Arms magwell, Agency Arms trigger and some trigger polishing.
Impressive, do you have an FFL to do it for other people?
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Last edited by 256; 12 June 2018 at 12:03. Reason: Added FFL detail.
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