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  #41  
Old 14 February 2019, 17:45
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Initially the title of this thread had me thinking it would be a discussion of WW2 Japanese fighter planes.

I use 25m for a couple of purely functional reasons unrelated to the weapon:

1 = The only ranges within driving distance that have a decent setup where I can comfortably and consistently zero a weapon at precise distances in any weather condition happen to be only 25 meters long;

2 = For deer hunting, the terrain where I go is so densely wooded that most shots are under 125m, which on a target the size of a deer at that range will still wind up with a bullet going approximately where it would have at 25m or close enough to do the work intended;

3 = In an emergency, my old eyes aren't going to dependably focus over iron sights at a target past 100m anyway, so who cares what is 300m away. The 25m zero will do well enough.

You professional shooters with high dollar guns and high dollar scopes have excellent reasons for your choices. I neither shoot nor shop in those circles.
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  #42  
Old 14 February 2019, 18:24
Akheloce Akheloce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Do you mean dead-bang, balls on AT 10yds? Or the 1.9" low at 10 yards?

If the former, that's a wild-ass trajectory

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ba...+Create+Chart+
Lol, the latter... I would have been more correct in saying a 50 yard zero for 10 yards like what was linked.
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  #43  
Old 14 February 2019, 18:27
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Close in zeros are very dependant on sight axis vs bore axis offset, you have converging angles. For further distances, you're more worried about velocity and ballistic coefficients, for maximum point blank range, where you're concerned with bullet path deviation from your point of aim. At least where you do not want to use offset aiming. I always used 200 yd zero because that was the range facilities I had available, and watching the Frank Proctor video, I'm happy to see that agrees with what I was doing.

This is all math, I use JBM Ballistics because I'm old and that's what I started with, but once you get past 500 yds or so, you start seeing deviations between theoretical calculations and what you're getting on target. Hence the use of actual zero cards where you shot the calculated data on a range and made sure everything agreed. S/F....Ken M
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  #44  
Old 15 February 2019, 10:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Let's say a Zero for your standard citizen owning a AR type rifle, or a police officer with their AR rifle, with iron sights or a 1x Red dot? Where most of your engagements are going to be probably within 7 - 50 meters. Maybe if live out on a farm/ranch or LE work you could see an occasional longer shot for self defense/neutralizing threats.


What is best for your standard Infantryman to have?


Your thoughts. 25, 50, 100, 200 zeros?
Several have already mentioned the 50y zero but I have found this to be very useful. It has targets and zero considerations for bullet weight, barrel length, and for ranges as well as 2 moa or 4 moa dots. Pick your configurations and go...LINK

Quote:
ARMA DYNAMICS recommends a 50 yard zero for your AR-15 rifle. The 50 yard zero provides for effective center-mass hits on target at the ranges where a carbine is most commonly used. A 50 yard zero allows the shooter to use a simple center-mass hold to ranges of point blank to 200-250 yards, depending on rifle and ammunition combination.



With this being said, we also realize that what works for one does not necessarily work for another. We have created a series of graphics to compare the different zeros for various barrel length and ammunition combinations to better choose what works best for your needs. (click on the graphic below for the full series)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg zeros.jpg (27.3 KB, 255 views)

Last edited by Streck-Fu; 15 February 2019 at 10:59.
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  #45  
Old 17 February 2019, 13:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
You've probably heard it referred to as max point blank range Sharky. It's like zero your rifle at 200 and everything from muzzle to about 350 can be hit within an acceptable kill zone without making any sight corrections depending on the round. DOS is big on it in their DDM program.
I got hooked on 200yd zero by SGM Lamb. I zero @ 200 and use consistent ammo; no “plinking” in the vocabulary (no russian crap ammo, etc...), so Performance expectations are managed. I chose a ballistic group and cheat with my bdc rangefinder; works awesome. I now see ballistic data on most ammo boxes for 200 yd zero, where as in the eighties I recall it was all 100yd zero; maybe I have just bitten on the new “hotness”?
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  #46  
Old 18 February 2019, 05:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low&slow View Post
I got hooked on 200yd zero by SGM Lamb. I zero @ 200 and use consistent ammo; no “plinking” in the vocabulary (no russian crap ammo, etc...), so Performance expectations are managed. I chose a ballistic group and cheat with my bdc rangefinder; works awesome. I now see ballistic data on most ammo boxes for 200 yd zero, where as in the eighties I recall it was all 100yd zero; maybe I have just bitten on the new “hotness”?
With M855 out of a 14.5/16, a 200 Yd zero is basically a 50yd zero. I guess it's preference, but the tighter mechanical groups at 50, give me a warm and fuzzy. I'd definitely confirm at 200 if I had the range for sure though. Obviously different rounds/barrel lengths (muzzle velocity) = "terrain dictates" Have you ever fired a 50yd group? Wonder how far off it would be in the real world? (and then does it even matter when "practical" accuracy is looked at).

Here are the two superimposed for an M4 w/Green Tip:
Attached Images
File Type: png 50-200.png (13.6 KB, 198 views)
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  #47  
Old 18 February 2019, 11:37
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Is it possible to get a 200y first zero? I don't think it is.
I guess anything is possible but would imagine it would just touch the zero then fall off quickly.

I have not found any ballistic calculator that would entertain such a thing.
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  #48  
Old 18 February 2019, 11:41
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It's still going to cross the line of sight twice, it has to unless you're using a ray gun. Depending on your sight height and the round you're using it's going to cross line of sight on the upswing of the trajectory @ 50-100, then drop back down to LOS again on the way down at 200.

Say your sight height is 1.75" above line of bore, unless you're shooting a rifle that has 1.75" of drop in 200yd it has to cross line of sight twice.
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  #49  
Old 18 February 2019, 12:45
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Yep, my Grendel repeat zero is 37 yards, when I shoot 200. I shoot 200 so I know exactly where to expect my round placement, however for me I use ballistic calculations from my TBR rangefinder that are predicated on a 200 yd zero. I then shoot closer and more distant targets to test the software against reality. I will quote Yellowbeard the pirate “Never trust a woman or a government” and add “ballistic software” to it; “sexist” maybe, but a funny movie....
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  #50  
Old 18 February 2019, 17:59
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Weapons zeros aren't complicated unless you make it so. Apparently a few of you like complicated...

Pick a zeroing method and test it on the ranges you expect to use the weapon at. If it works and you like it- presto! - you now have a zero procedure that works for you.
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  #51  
Old 18 February 2019, 19:57
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I must confess I'm way gay for this shit. It was a huge part of my life for a long time.
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  #52  
Old 18 February 2019, 20:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbullet View Post
Weapons zeros aren't complicated unless you make it so. Apparently a few of you like complicated...

Pick a zeroing meothod and test it on the ranges you expect to use the weapon at. If it works and you like it- presto! - you now have a zero procedure that works for you.
You're no fun.
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  #53  
Old 18 February 2019, 20:30
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I must confess I'm way gay for this shit. It was a huge part of my life for a long time.
Glad you could “come out of the closet” about it
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  #54  
Old 18 February 2019, 21:03
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Originally Posted by Whitebean54 View Post
Glad you could “come out of the closet” about it
Well at least he knows how to not only do a proper Zero, but also shut a car door without his thumbs getting in the way.
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  #55  
Old 18 February 2019, 21:20
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All the high speed, new technology gadgets and various zeroing methods are great and all.

My standard, at least for hunting here, is 3 rounds in a Copenhagen can lid at 100 yards.
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  #56  
Old 18 February 2019, 21:47
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Originally Posted by 1RiserSlip View Post
All the high speed, new technology gadgets and various zeroing methods are great and all.

My standard, at least for hunting here, is 3 rounds in a Copenhagen can lid at 100 yards.
That is good shooting. Can do that, will put meat on the table.
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  #57  
Old 18 February 2019, 22:18
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
That is good shooting. Can do that, will put meat on the table.
He left off that it's 3 rounds out of 5 boxes that he shot at the Copenhagen lid.
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  #58  
Old 19 February 2019, 07:42
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Zeros

I use a slightly high 50 (ie top of the dot/FS post), w/5.56, 5.45 and 5.7.

Â….and then work w/it, to keep impacts w/in a 6" intended POI through the bullets trajectory, out to 200.


The visualization of having a full size non-moving E-Type threat to shoot at, @ least in my experience, never really materialized. It briefs well.


..and then, there was the whole Army memorize your zero, put it in your pistol grip thing. What a great OER/NCOER comment, akin to adoption of the reflective belt. W/the POA/POI tolerances specified to industry, in the milspec, you have an =/better chance of being more accurate w/a pick-up using a fallen comrade's zero. Then you would dialing your zero into it, from a different carbine/rifle.


Good shooting.
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  #59  
Old 19 February 2019, 08:38
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I'm still old school...I zero, shoot at various ranges and weather conditions, and still keep a hand drawn range index and dope book where I shoot and hunt. It keeps my life ever so simple...
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  #60  
Old 19 February 2019, 09:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
I must confess I'm way gay for this shit. It was a huge part of my life for a long time.
Me too - I find it interesting as heck - I'm a data nerd. I'd never rely solely on BDC data, but knowing it, can't hurt.
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