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Old 29 June 2011, 06:53
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Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base

Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base
by Annie Jacobsen
Hardcover: 544 pages
Publisher: Little, Brown and Company; 1St Edition edition (May 17, 2011)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0316132942
ISBN-13: 978-0316132947

The majority of the book is well written and VERY well researched history of the place called Groom Lake on USGS maps. It also brings into the mix an overview history of the Nevada Test Site. The actual origins of the site is a major part of the book along with the discussion of the site and it's many programs.

About 20% of the book is a listing of notes/sources/bibliography/interviews for the book. The bibliography is pretty in depth with a huge compilation of documents and many books that are long out of print. I would wager the FOIA PDF file on the author's computer is at the top of her documents popup menu. The author states the impetus of the book was a chance social meeting of a retired, elderly physicist that worked for the CIA in the 50's.

The book stays on on a very very realistic track till the last chapter. Through the book the author connects dots through a variety of corporate and individual associations that intersect at the dry lake bed and it's creation as a important test and development site. The connection of the Atomic Energy Commission followed by the Department of Energy to Nevada Test Site and Area 51 is widely developed and asserted throughout the volume.

This follows into the assertion that the true secrets of the site are held by DOE because that the AEC (it's predecessor) was given control over all things nuclear. The dots that follow into the connection of the (now) DOE and a variety of corporate entities, is a matter of public record going back to WWII.

This is where the book starts to slide into the tin foil area.

In the last chapter, the author brings into the mix an anonymous defense contractor engineer who worked for a long period at Area 51. This source alludes that the Roswell incident was the result of the incursion into the US by an advanced Russian aircraft which launched flying disks piloted by child size humans who were the result of of Dr Mengele's experiments at Auschwitz. ( I can hear the eye rolling into the back of a lot of heads from here.)

I've read a fair number of UFO/POW/MIA conspiracy books that make a much weaker case than this author does. Up till the last chapter the book is a well written historical account. It is well worth the time to read if your at all interested in the history of some of the coolest aircraft the country has ever created.
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Old 29 June 2011, 07:32
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This source alludes that the Roswell incident was the result of the incursion into the US by an advanced Russian aircraft which launched flying disks piloted by child size humans who were the result of of Dr Mengele's experiments at Auschwitz. ( I can hear the eye rolling into the back of a lot of heads from here.)
People can believe what they want to believe. There are some serious issues, events and timelines on the part of the "witnesses" to alien bodies at Roswell. I wonder how the author of the Area 51 book, Annie Jacobsen, deals with the below issues.

- There are no mention of any bodies at Roswell in any documents or from witnesses until a 1989 airing of the show, "Unsolved Mysteries". Isn't it reasonable that if newspaper articles from the time would make the huge logical leap needed to print that what was found was an alien ship, they'd make the relatively much smaller leap to say that there were bodies found too?

- Glenn Dennis is the person who first mentions the bodies in 1989 has a deep financial interest in the events at Roswell in 1947. Mr. Dennis happens to be the founder of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell, New Mexico. He is also notable in that he changed the name of a nurse at the autopsy once she was proved to have not existed. These days, the "alien body" story is presented as if it had been around since 1947.

- Wikipedia has some interesting and well researched counter claims to the events at Roswell not listed above. Many of these are by people that can be considered pro-UFO. The below is one of the stronger ones for me...

Quote:
William L. Moore, one of the earliest proponents of the Roswell incident, said this in 1997: "After deep and careful consideration of recent developments concerning Roswell...I am no longer of the opinion that the extraterrestrial explanation is the best explanation for this event." Moore was co-author of the first book on Roswell, The Roswell Incident.[71]
I say stick to the 1897 Aurora, TX crash as a stronger example of a UFO crash involving aliens. Perhaps the Czars were doing secret experiments with child pilots for that one too....pre-dating heavier than air flight, of course. Seems about as credible.
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Old 29 June 2011, 07:47
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Hmmm. So, Area 51 is actually a secret air base to test secret stuff. Who knew?
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Old 29 June 2011, 16:32
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Hmmm. So, Area 51 is actually a secret air base to test secret stuff. Who knew?
Ha ha! I knew. I have been to Area 51 many times. I have drove the short route (thru the Atomic Bomb Area) that is adjacent, but not part of the famous Area 51, and the long route around when a shoot was getting ready to go off. Too, I have flown in from Las Vegas and Calif., both via private Company Aircraft.

I have slept, eaten, played poker, drank mucho suds, met old friends, made new friends at the Area 51. Never saw any little green, uripe men in the mess hall or inserting selves into air tight flying suits.

What most people do when they place suspicious stories on Area 51 is that the author of the BS forgets that even though there is a very wide security perimeter around Area 51, there are oodles of civilian type geek heads with 600mm lens on their cameras lining the secuity perimeter to take photos of anything that comes within range of the 600mm lens.

The funny part is that there are little vendor stands on the public roads adjacent to the entrance to the Atomic Area (first secure area entered) that sell crap to visitors to the stands. The crap that is sold is labled "authentic" and the unknowing public eats it up. "What you cannot see you will belieive if someone tells you often enough."

It is very easy to get info about Area 51 as there were over the years a rotation of (an I am guessing from my eyeball visits) approx 5 or 6 thousand personnel who have worked at Area 51. This included women at a latter stage of the "Black" operations as the Government got sued for not having female quarters for the fairer lasses.

As a side note, it is called "Area 51" because of the huge amounts of open land in upper Nevada. The wide open areas are cut into squares and labeled by numbers such as, Area 50, Area 51, Area 52 and so on. These maps and areas can be identified in most Bureau of Land Management maps that are available to the public.

Last edited by Cass; 29 June 2011 at 16:36.
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Old 29 June 2011, 22:28
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I've been listening to the book on my iphone on the drive to and from work. It's very interesting, but has some technical inaccuracies here and there that make me wonder about the accuracy of some of the other research. Very well written overall though, definitely worth the read/listen.

I agree with RetPara about the tinfoil hat section. If Stalin had flying saucers in 1947, the first question that occurred to me was, why didn't we get our asses handed to us during the air war in Korea and Vietnam?

Cass reminded me of a story - the first time I flew at Red Flag up in the 60 and 70 series ranges, I remember being surprised that I could see the Groom Lake complex so clearly on my way in and out of the airspace. It wasn't shown on the maps, so I guess I had expected it to be invisible.

Of course, now you can see the whole layout in excruciating detail on Google Earth.
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Old 29 June 2011, 22:49
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Child size....the max height of tank crew memebers in the former USSR was 5'6."

Never thought that I'd get that into a conversation after my (late) Dad told me way

back when he worked for the MOD and I was an Offr Cadet....touche D'Artagnan!
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Old 30 June 2011, 00:16
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Gee, and I thought it was only a government owned contractor operated facility for the research, development, prototyping, proof of principle testing and low rate production of advanced aerospace structures.

When it was aliens all along.
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Old 30 June 2011, 15:12
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Of course, now you can see the whole layout in excruciating detail on Google Earth.
That problem doesn't exist at AUTEC, and NR-1 did surveillance for 40 years that U-2 & SR-71 pilots can only fantasize about in very slow moving dreams.
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Old 30 June 2011, 19:45
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Ha ha! I knew. I have been to Area 51 many times. I have drove the short route (thru the Atomic Bomb Area) that is adjacent, but not part of the famous Area 51, and the long route around when a shoot was getting ready to go off. Too, I have flown in from Las Vegas and Calif., both via private Company Aircraft.
That explains alot Cass.

I have to say, that flying around Tonopah was much spookier than flying near Groom Lake. There were some truly "odd" moments back in the day.
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Old 6 January 2016, 17:09
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I agree with RetPara about the tinfoil hat section. If Stalin had flying saucers in 1947, the first question that occurred to me was, why didn't we get our asses handed to us during the air war in Korea and Vietnam?
I just finished the book recently and the hole in the EMF hover and fly technology is a big gaping one. According to her there was cyrllic script inside the cockpit gleamed from early reports she unearthed. Her one anonymous source says it was flown down through Russia and remote controlled from a mothership. That all reminds me a lot of Operation Aphrodite. Far from an unprecedented concept until you hold into account flying without ever being detected and the logistics and range of the alleged flight.

If you are to take that version as fact. To me it makes sense why there'd be a cover up. Forget the alleged hoax attempted by Stalin but the overall embarrassment of a Soviet air space penetration that deep into the CONUS.

Regarding the comatose children surgically augmented to appear E.T., somewhat plausible but I don't see why they would have been kept alive and studied as long as her anonymous source alleges. I'm not a doctor but I just don't see how much scientific value could be gleaned from them over that long a period, alleged by that source and others who claim to have seen the bodies.
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Old 25 January 2016, 22:42
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I've been listening to the book while I drive for work. I think it's amusing that the same Gov that set off 50+ nukes for testing is worried about my carbon footprint and global warming.
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Old 25 January 2016, 23:25
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I've been listening to the book while I drive for work. I think it's amusing that the same Gov that set off 50+ nukes for testing is worried about my carbon footprint and global warming.
That was those dirty, nasty Republicans doing that, not the good-guy, anti-slavery Democrats.
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Old 26 January 2016, 00:46
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I just finished the book recently.....According to her there was cyrllic script inside the cockpit gleamed from early reports she unearthed.

.
And in latter years Russia disposed of their little Purple Pigmies and went back to airplanes.

I thought that short asshole I just met in the Tropicana looked under 21, but his voice was so horse. He kept asking me where can he buy some really good JP-4.
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Old 26 January 2016, 03:02
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I've been listening to the book while I drive for work. I think it's amusing that the same Gov that set off 50+ nukes for testing is worried about my carbon footprint and global warming.
There was a lot learned from those tests. The damage or contamination to the Ranch from neighboring tests was interesting to me. There was a lot of embarrassment not too long ago from a surveillance blimp breaking free and drifting from Maryland to Pennsylvania, that loose ballon with an a-bomb on it kind of pales in comparison to me.

The USAF Lt. Gen. from Systems Command IIRC pulling rank, flying that Mig and subsequently wrecking it and coming close to compromising the facility was one I had never heard of.

The nuclear rocket stuff was wild to me, they were so determined to get to Mars decades ago.

It's a pretty cool book. Like the OP said the ET/Russian stuff is the weakest part of the whole book. I would have dropped it and focused on the other stuff.
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Old 26 January 2016, 03:05
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And in latter years Russia disposed of their little Purple Pigmies and went back to airplanes.

I thought that short asshole I just met in the Tropicana looked under 21, but his voice was so horse. He kept asking me where can he buy some really good JP-4.
I know you're kidding but she covered some stuff about JP-7 I had never heard of regarding reducing it's IR/Radar signature and how a lot of it is still classified. So much of that aircraft was just generations ahead of its time done without modern computing.
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Old 26 January 2016, 04:10
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From a straight investigator standpoint, the whole Roswell, corona, San Agustin incident is compelling. Witnesses with direct access AND clearances (Marcel), citizen witnesses who did not know each other, and the response from the military on the scenes, leads one to believe that the incident occurred.
Citizen witnesses found debris, found the craft, and found bodies. At all points of movement in the chain there are witnesses who have come forward and pieces of the puzzle come together.
Indeed the military actually said they had a craft and put out out a press release saying so until someone higher yanked it back and developed the weather balloon story, which Marcel many years later debunked when he was found and told his story.
After years of reading about this incident, I have no doubt given the preponderance of eyewitness testimony of multiple non associated witnesses, Marcel's statement and the govts response then and now to it, that it happened.
Now why it has never been disclosed, that's a whole other topic
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Old 26 January 2016, 10:50
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From a straight investigator standpoint, the whole Roswell, corona, San Agustin incident is compelling. Witnesses with direct access AND clearances (Marcel), citizen witnesses who did not know each other, and the response from the military on the scenes, leads one to believe that the incident occurred.
Citizen witnesses found debris, found the craft, and found bodies. At all points of movement in the chain there are witnesses who have come forward and pieces of the puzzle come together.
Indeed the military actually said they had a craft and put out out a press release saying so until someone higher yanked it back and developed the weather balloon story, which Marcel many years later debunked when he was found and told his story.
After years of reading about this incident, I have no doubt given the preponderance of eyewitness testimony of multiple non associated witnesses, Marcel's statement and the govts response then and now to it, that it happened.
Now why it has never been disclosed, that's a whole other topic
The fatal F-117 crash while the program was still in Tonopah was advertised for years as an A-7D training accident. That wasn't declassified until years later, and that was for a program that was later acknowledged.
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Old 26 January 2016, 10:59
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From a straight investigator standpoint, the whole Roswell, corona, San Agustin incident is compelling. Witnesses with direct access AND clearances (Marcel), citizen witnesses who did not know each other, and the response from the military on the scenes, leads one to believe that the incident occurred.
Citizen witnesses found debris, found the craft, and found bodies. At all points of movement in the chain there are witnesses who have come forward and pieces of the puzzle come together.
Indeed the military actually said they had a craft and put out out a press release saying so until someone higher yanked it back and developed the weather balloon story, which Marcel many years later debunked when he was found and told his story.
After years of reading about this incident, I have no doubt given the preponderance of eyewitness testimony of multiple non associated witnesses, Marcel's statement and the govts response then and now to it, that it happened.
Now why it has never been disclosed, that's a whole other topic
The fatal F-117 crash while the program was still in Tonopah was advertised for years as an A-7D training accident. That wasn't declassified until years later, and that was for a program that was later acknowledged.

The amount of above secret level shit that is really mundane is no secret to anyone here. As cool as it would be for the govt to admit Men in Black was a documentary, it would be a hell of a lot funnier if in 20 years they finally declassify all that shit and they're like, "no for real, we tried to tell you...it really was weather balloons".
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Old 26 January 2016, 14:05
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You had to live In Roswell doing that time. There were several reports from Air Lines from the N.Y. all the way to Washington State of UFO, sightings. The 509th Bomb wing was stationed at Walker Air Forces Base, which had the only Atomic Bomb on the Base. If you lived on Base you could not get close to a certain hanger, do to all the security. If you were a young kid going to the base school, if you joking said any thing about a U.F.O an it got back to certain individuals you an your Dad were called in for an interview by someone. You only joked about it one time, because your ass got a wiping with a belt when you got home. Later years in High school it was talked about more as some of the kids that lived in town would not say a word about it. Years later you would find out that they were related to the Sheriff or Bert M. Ballard of The Ballard Funeral Home, 910 South Main St., Roswell, New Mexico. I lived on the base an later in Town (Roswell N.M.) RHS Class of 63.

Do I believe in the little green men or what ever color they were. Something happened is all I know.
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Old 26 January 2016, 16:40
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I enjoyed the book, and agree the last chapter could have been left out.
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