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  #21  
Old 25 August 2012, 19:23
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Originally Posted by catfish
As long as you don't have any gay ass dress code or grooming standard, I am in.
No dude, it's casual only. I'd suggest loose-fitting blue jeans, a shirt you would not feel uncomfortable wearing amongst diners in a decent restaurant (when we get through, I suggest we hit places to get decent chow), and some sort of running shoes (easy to wash shit off the bottoms, plus they dry easily).

I'd suggest an OWB holster, and a couple of mag pouches, just for comfort and ease....
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  #22  
Old 25 August 2012, 19:41
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Originally Posted by Spinner View Post

The current Superintendent was brought in because it was thought that his methods would stem the tide. In fact, things have gotten worse on his watch precisely because of his directives.
What directives would those be?
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  #23  
Old 25 August 2012, 19:57
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What directives would those be?

Oh shit, you all poked the Bear
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  #24  
Old 25 August 2012, 20:08
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Originally Posted by The Fat Guy View Post
Oh shit, you all poked the Bear
Not at all. I'm just curious what directives a fairly experienced Police Chief would author that would make perps be more violent. The Supt. does have a big ego, putting the bag(Uniform) on and going out on Patrol and kicking some ass, he is quite capable in that area, is not beneath him. I'm merely trying to learn.
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  #25  
Old 25 August 2012, 20:15
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I'm merely trying to learn.
....
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  #26  
Old 25 August 2012, 20:18
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....
lol that transparent huh?
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  #27  
Old 25 August 2012, 20:38
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Hell, I'll bite.

1. He got rid of the citywide units. MSF and TRU, while sometimes disparaged by the patrol cops, served a valuable purpose. Now there is little to perform the role they filled.

2. He keeps shitting on the patrol cops because he can't man up to Rahm(this isn't anything new, the last guy did the same thing). CPD is a couple thousand cops under budgeted strength(smoke and mirrors), and therefore is operating under frantic emergency standards, all the fucking time. Patrolmen can't take time due in a reasonable fashion, typically because of manpower issues. Dumb fuck is putting detectives into uniform. The ghetto dwellers almost never talk to dicks now; they're never going to talk to a uniformed guy.

3. He continues with the same craven pussy shit that's put Chicago in this position: pandering to the deadend ghetto savages. One of the 1st things he did was go to St Sabinas(englewood shithole), home of that asshat Fr Phleger and essentially blame all the ghetto problems on racism 60 years ago.

http://www.chicagonewsreport.com/201...ent-garry.html

Hell, a couple monthes ago, he blamed the Pilgrims. CPD is expending massive resources in neighborhoods that just are impossible to police. They just don't GAS about anything. Fucking savages are engaging in gunfights in front of police officers. Stripping all the nice areas to send police to the shitholes is not only ineffective, it drives up crime in those nice areas as the shitheads move into fresh killing fields. The police can't impose order on a neighborhood that doesn't want order(not under US law); you really need martial law for that.

The guy's a puppet for Rahm. S/F.....Ken M
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  #28  
Old 25 August 2012, 20:38
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Read the story. Noticed that 3 of the last 4 shooting events have occurred in "gun free" zones. Just an observation. Also noticing that the only people that want to live in gun free zones are criminals and victims.
Carry on.
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  #29  
Old 25 August 2012, 20:54
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No dude, it's casual only. I'd suggest loose-fitting blue jeans, a shirt you would not feel uncomfortable wearing amongst diners in a decent restaurant (when we get through, I suggest we hit places to get decent chow), and some sort of running shoes (easy to wash shit off the bottoms, plus they dry easily).

I'd suggest an OWB holster, and a couple of mag pouches, just for comfort and ease....
I like how you think.
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  #30  
Old 25 August 2012, 21:03
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...Hey America, check it out. Wanna cut down on crime?
I knew you were my brother from another mother.

We wouldn't need anyone else Bro... Just you and I, two Colt 45s, and spare mags. Perhaps we could try one of those 5.7s with the 30 round mags and cheap ammo...

f-ing awesome. Just what I wanted to do in my retirement.
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Finally, I believe that punishing lawful gun owners by creating new, more onerous laws, and restricting Constitutionally guaranteed rights, when we already don't enforce the tens of thousands of gun laws we have on the books, is like beating your dog because the neighbor's dog shit in your yard.
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  #31  
Old 25 August 2012, 21:09
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Originally Posted by EchoFiveMike View Post
Hell, I'll bite.

1. He got rid of the citywide units. MSF and TRU, while sometimes disparaged by the patrol cops, served a valuable purpose. Now there is little to perform the role they filled.

2. He keeps shitting on the patrol cops because he can't man up to Rahm(this isn't anything new, the last guy did the same thing). CPD is a couple thousand cops under budgeted strength(smoke and mirrors), and therefore is operating under frantic emergency standards, all the fucking time. Patrolmen can't take time due in a reasonable fashion, typically because of manpower issues. Dumb fuck is putting detectives into uniform. The ghetto dwellers almost never talk to dicks now; they're never going to talk to a uniformed guy.

3. He continues with the same craven pussy shit that's put Chicago in this position: pandering to the deadend ghetto savages. One of the 1st things he did was go to St Sabinas(englewood shithole), home of that asshat Fr Phleger and essentially blame all the ghetto problems on racism 60 years ago.

http://www.chicagonewsreport.com/201...ent-garry.html

Hell, a couple monthes ago, he blamed the Pilgrims. CPD is expending massive resources in neighborhoods that just are impossible to police. They just don't GAS about anything. Fucking savages are engaging in gunfights in front of police officers. Stripping all the nice areas to send police to the shitholes is not only ineffective, it drives up crime in those nice areas as the shitheads move into fresh killing fields. The police can't impose order on a neighborhood that doesn't want order(not under US law); you really need martial law for that.

The guy's a puppet for Rahm. S/F.....Ken M
Police Chiefs, Commissioners etc can only police to the extent that the Mayor allows. That of course changes if they are an elected official. Politics as you know is local and we all know about the Chicago way.

Did he disband the units you mentioned to re-allocate the personnel due to the shortage? Having a Detective in uniform is not new. We did it back in the day when it was crime central. We didnít like it either. We had to do one tour a set in uniform and there was some O/T available to work in the bag. So making theses changes isnít a new concept, it had varying degrees of success here. The tide turned here when the hounds were released. The broken glass theory etc but it is very, very costly in dollars, time and energy.

So since it would be frowned upon to fence in the area you spoke of, Iím sure there are some decent folks living there, it does make sense to martial the forces there, doesnít it? Itís a block by block and sometimes building by building effort.

I watched the video. I canít say Iím shocked, he has done/said some stupid things. I do recall him being an effective boss so I know he knows how to Police. I also recall him being a pretty tough guy fully capable of getting the job done on the street. Like me heís getting a tad long in the tooth so who knows.

Thanks for the reply.
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  #32  
Old 25 August 2012, 21:49
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Though I am a new to Chicago but have lived here for awhile, this type of violence is endemic and cannot be stopped. No amount of deterrence, mitigation, etc on the part of law enforcement can stop it as there are types of people incapable of being trained, learning new skills, etc and they prefer ignorance at any cost.

Law enforcement has tried many strategies over the years to no avail.
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  #33  
Old 26 August 2012, 09:30
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This is not so much a Chicago problem, its a big city problem that you will find anywhere in the US. Its a ghetto problem. Like SOTB talking about walking the streets where narcos abound, I've done the same in the city. A little SA doesn't hurt. I've worked in many areas such as Englewood, Austin, Douglas Park as a contractor. This areas are not too bad if you clear out before sundown. After dark, the gang bangers go at it. Same in LA, same in NYC, same in Houston etc.,etc.
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  #34  
Old 26 August 2012, 12:13
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This is not so much a Chicago problem, its a big city problem that you will find anywhere in the US. Its a ghetto problem. Like SOTB talking about walking the streets where narcos abound, I've done the same in the city. A little SA doesn't hurt. I've worked in many areas such as Englewood, Austin, Douglas Park as a contractor. This areas are not too bad if you clear out before sundown. After dark, the gang bangers go at it. Same in LA, same in NYC, same in Houston etc.,etc.
Absolutely.

That's why they should all be cordoned off and no one can get in or out unless they have a work pass.

Once they can go a month without killing each other senselessly some freedoms will be returned - like turning the electricity back on in the affected areas.

The government is NEVER going to fix the problem. Neither are all the do-gooders. The only thing that will fix the problem are the people who are affected once they decide enough is enough and rise up and take care of things themselves. But they have no cause to do that as long as they're being coddled and taken care of.

Cordon the areas off. Let them get their heads screwed on right.
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  #35  
Old 26 August 2012, 16:13
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Originally Posted by Blackjack78 View Post
What directives would those be?
Perhaps I phrased it wrong.

The Chicago Police used to have dedicated teams that would respond citywide to various areas of violence, mostly on the south and west side. In NYC, I believe you have anti-crime teams that serve somewhat the same purpose. Chicago disbanded two of the units that did this type of work, one of them because of a widespread scandal involving several of their officers.

And perhaps fielding those types of units are somewhat of a bandaid response, in terms of long term quelling of violence, but they were pretty effective at keeping a lid on the worst of the violence. The number of shootings are sustained and nonstop these days. It's not just media hype, the gangs are just shooting everything that moves these days. Again, mostly on the south and west sides, where you can see the spike in shootings and homicides.

The superintendent made the decision to take these officers from those units and assign them to various districts throughout the city, without a real strategy for dealing with the worst of the violence. Or, if there is a strategy, it's not working. They made a big deal out of giving $1 million to a group called Ceasefire, made up mainly of ex gang members. If that's the Superintendent's and the mayor's grand plan, it's not a good one. They also made a big deal by proclaiming they were adding new officers, when in reality they were just shifting existing officers around and taking a bunch working desks and putting them on the street (which is where they should be, of course).

Clearly, his actions aren't making them more violent. But it appears a lot of the larger gangs have splintered into a lot of smaller factions, and they're fighting for smaller pieces of territory. Or maybe they're just getting their kicks, who knows.

I do know the level of violence spiked over the last year, and it coincides with the new Superintendent taking over. Coincidence, perhaps, but he's made a lot of changes, and the police department is shrinking at the same time.

And he does get out there with the troops, no doubt about that. Admirable, in many ways, but sometimes the guy wearing 4 stars has a bigger responsibility. And yeah, coming up with a cohesive strategy to stem violence among gangs is right up there near the top.

I'd like to see Cubbies Suck chime in on the issue, but he's probably responding to a call of shots fired.

BTW Blackjack, here's one of the widely read cop blogs in Chicago. I've talked to a couple of guys I know on the CPD, and they were cagey about what they think about it, one of them saying it's basically the internet version of guys writing on the bathroom stall,. But I'm sure they read it, and I'm also sure there's a lot of truth to what the blogger is saying. A lot of times, the official story and reports in the media are dismissed either by one of the readers of the blog who also works in the city, or the blogger himself (or her, even though I think it's a guy).

http://www.secondcitycop.blogspot.com/

No leader will ever be universally liked or respected, but the last two Superintendents appear to be universally loathed by the rank and file. Maybe it's because they're the first true outsiders to take over the top spot in several generations, but that's just a guess on my part.
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Last edited by Spinner; 26 August 2012 at 16:24.
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  #36  
Old 26 August 2012, 16:27
Okie75 Okie75 is offline
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Interesting

That in the last couple of days "Gun Violence" occurred in two of the cities/states with the tightest gun control laws in America, once again, proof that control it's sell will not abate people from shooting/killing each other.

Hmmm..
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  #37  
Old 26 August 2012, 16:58
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Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
Perhaps I phrased it wrong.

The Chicago Police used to have dedicated teams that would respond citywide to various areas of violence, mostly on the south and west side. In NYC, I believe you have anti-crime teams that serve somewhat the same purpose. Chicago disbanded two of the units that did this type of work, one of them because of a widespread scandal involving several of their officers.

And perhaps fielding those types of units are somewhat of a bandaid response, in terms of long term quelling of violence, but they were pretty effective at keeping a lid on the worst of the violence. The number of shootings are sustained and nonstop these days. It's not just media hype, the gangs are just shooting everything that moves these days. Again, mostly on the south and west sides, where you can see the spike in shootings and homicides.

The superintendent made the decision to take these officers from those units and assign them to various districts throughout the city, without a real strategy for dealing with the worst of the violence. Or, if there is a strategy, it's not working. They made a big deal out of giving $1 million to a group called Ceasefire, made up mainly of ex gang members. If that's the Superintendent's and the mayor's grand plan, it's not a good one. They also made a big deal by proclaiming they were adding new officers, when in reality they were just shifting existing officers around and taking a bunch working desks and putting them on the street (which is where they should be, of course).

Clearly, his actions aren't making them more violent. But it appears a lot of the larger gangs have splintered into a lot of smaller factions, and they're fighting for smaller pieces of territory. Or maybe they're just getting their kicks, who knows.

I do know the level of violence spiked over the last year, and it coincides with the new Superintendent taking over. Coincidence, perhaps, but he's made a lot of changes, and the police department is shrinking at the same time.

And he does get out there with the troops, no doubt about that. Admirable, in many ways, but sometimes the guy wearing 4 stars has a bigger responsibility. And yeah, coming up with a cohesive strategy to stem violence among gangs is right up there near the top.

I'd like to see Cubbies Suck chime in on the issue, but he's probably responding to a call of shots fired.

BTW Blackjack, here's one of the widely read cop blogs in Chicago. I've talked to a couple of guys I know on the CPD, and they were cagey about what they think about it, one of them saying it's basically the internet version of guys writing on the bathroom stall,. But I'm sure they read it, and I'm also sure there's a lot of truth to what the blogger is saying. A lot of times, the official story and reports in the media are dismissed either by one of the readers of the blog who also works in the city, or the blogger himself (or her, even though I think it's a guy).

http://www.secondcitycop.blogspot.com/

No leader will ever be universally liked or respected, but the last two Superintendents appear to be universally loathed by the rank and file. Maybe it's because they're the first true outsiders to take over the top spot in several generations, but that's just a guess on my part.
So he disbanded the specialized units and then dispersed the personnel throughout the city and not to the high crime areas? Thatís odd. No, thatís dumb or smart figuring pull everybody out, protect what you can and let nature take its course. I can see if those specialized units spent their whole time working in the busier areas just committing them full time there but it sure doesnít make sense to put them where they are not needed. I should add that nothing in my previous post should be taken as being a fan/supporter of the Supt. Iím not.

I can also see a major problem being a dwindling department, x amount of folks can only do so much. We had close to 40k and it was a tough road.

Our anti-crime plays a similar role but each pct had a team. We also had a city wide unit that was disbanded and then we had Boro wide anti-crime units. In addition, we would bring to bear a uniformed presence from a Boro Wide Task Force and/or when the new rookies came out they got to walk foot posts for a few years in the busiest places.

As far as giving money to ex-gang bangers, Iím not sure what thatís about but I would guess it falls somewhere in the Community Policing area. I would think that a spike in shootings would rest squarely on the shoulders of the people doing the shooting.

Re: Blogs. Yeah we have them here. I donít read them. Some tell truths, some half-truths, some lies, me, I think itís stupid for a group of grown-ups to carry on like children. Police work is not indentured servitude. One can always resign, there is not a gun to anybodyís head to stay.
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  #38  
Old 26 August 2012, 18:18
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Originally Posted by Blackjack78 View Post
Police Chiefs, Commissioners etc can only police to the extent that the Mayor allows. That of course changes if they are an elected official. Politics as you know is local and we all know about the Chicago way.

Did he disband the units you mentioned to re-allocate the personnel due to the shortage? Having a Detective in uniform is not new. We did it back in the day when it was crime central. We didnít like it either. We had to do one tour a set in uniform and there was some O/T available to work in the bag. So making theses changes isnít a new concept, it had varying degrees of success here. The tide turned here when the hounds were released. The broken glass theory etc but it is very, very costly in dollars, time and energy.

So since it would be frowned upon to fence in the area you spoke of, Iím sure there are some decent folks living there, it does make sense to martial the forces there, doesnít it? Itís a block by block and sometimes building by building effort.

I watched the video. I canít say Iím shocked, he has done/said some stupid things. I do recall him being an effective boss so I know he knows how to Police. I also recall him being a pretty tough guy fully capable of getting the job done on the street. Like me heís getting a tad long in the tooth so who knows.

Thanks for the reply.
Hey, his name's on the door, he gets to deal with the good and the bad. Comes with the paycheck. Just like I say about the officer corps, vote with your feet rather than sell your soul or for some of them, peddle their ass.

The manpower was allocated to the districts, most of the troops went to the ghettos. Which had the further effect of pissing off many of the cops because now they have to drive to the opposite end of the city to get to work. Cops have to reside in the city and, unsurprisingly, mostly live at the edges of the city, as far away as they can get from the shitholes. This also has the effect of overcrowding those districts. One cop was killed last year as he changed in the parking lot of the police station, as there was no room in the building.

The hounds are not going to be released, due to the issues I mentioned. That being, the ghetto shithead support agencies(aka rev-rands/community activists/etc) have too much clout. The ghetto shithead support agencies want to have their cake and eat it too. They are constantly demanding contradictory things. They want more cops in the ghetto, but they scream blue murder when there's more cops in the ghetto arresting shitheads. They're simply insane, literally; not exaggerating, they want two things that cannot both be true.

The solution is Operation Al Fajr on the lake shore, nothing less will work. Going back to simply protecting the homelands would be a cheaper alternative for the taxpayers, but the tax eaters would scream blue murder.

And he's got a fucked up accent

Old pogue, I work all those areas, 11PM-7AM. Last night I spent 12:05-6:30AM repossessing tractor trailers as a subcontractor for another company. No shit, I linked up with the guy and he's wearing body armour. Not a good sign. I think we were the only white people for twenty blocks that weren't cops or trying to buy dope.

And tonight I get to drive to Detroit FML. S/F....Ken M
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  #39  
Old 26 August 2012, 19:28
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
No dude, it's casual only. I'd suggest loose-fitting blue jeans, a shirt you would not feel uncomfortable wearing amongst diners in a decent restaurant (when we get through, I suggest we hit places to get decent chow), and some sort of running shoes (easy to wash shit off the bottoms, plus they dry easily).

I'd suggest an OWB holster, and a couple of mag pouches, just for comfort and ease....

What are we doing??????
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  #40  
Old 26 August 2012, 19:44
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