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  #41  
Old 23 March 2016, 09:33
WGH0922 WGH0922 is offline
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I was reading an article last night about an AP reporter who walked out of the State Dept briefing when Semen Kirby wouldn't answer a question regarding wounded Americans in Brussels. Then I browsed the comments section and came across this gem that I swear is DD0311 or his clone.

KenH Iron Fist ē 13 hours ago
"You know what else is bad? Seeing even one image of the cocksucking asslifter and his fake brood and Mike at a fake ball game with the dictator cocksucker who wanted to foment a nuclear strike on the United States, and the silly FUCKING MORONS of what supposed to be the press corps think its a fucking sock hop.
This planet needs a massive asteroid strike to cull out the fucking stupid, badly"

This isn't a jab at DD0311, just that I thought of him when I read it.
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  #42  
Old 23 March 2016, 09:39
ramzmedic ramzmedic is offline
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Originally Posted by abnrgr1sg View Post
This is what I don't understand. The media comes off as this was unexpected, a big surprise. I read a security bulletin in Jane's Defense online just 2 days ago that warned about this very kind of attack in Europe. The Brits paid attention to it and ran drills, have military pre-positioned outside London for rapid response.
+1. How they could let their guard down, or not be on the highest alert level when Abdeslam was still on the loose is downright unsat in the CT process. The dude was found in his hometown only a few blocks from his parent's home. WTF? Brussels (and Belgium in general) is just too damn liberal to effectively fight terrorism aggressively. And from what I could see on TV they had little contingency plans if an attack happened. Sad, and scary.
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  #43  
Old 23 March 2016, 12:41
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
No wide-scale destruction of Europe need occur, nor is it even desirable. I side with E5M, all that is required is to;
  1. Stop admitting ME and African muslims into Europe for anything other than visiting, and then -- only those that can be vetted as to their motives, history, and likelihood to try to remain
  2. All ME and African muslims who are not citizens of the country, deported. No whining. No exceptions. If they are not in the above category -- then goodthefuckbye.
  3. I'm against deporting anyone who is a citizen of a country, incarceration is acceptable, but I don't believe in stripping people of their citizenship. So those already under the wire, congrats.
  4. All citizens of the country(ies) in question told to ruck the fuck up and learn the national language and assimilate. No exceptions or tolerance will be made for enclaves of cultures not of that country. No such thing as "no go areas" nor laws that are outside of the laws of the country in question.
That would be a start....
Just a thought as I read your post...There is a reason why there was sufficient popular support in the 1920s to pass immigration restrictions through Congress. The late 19th/early 20th century anarchist movement and the postwar Red Scare fueled a lot of public anxiety about eastern European immigrants bringing their radical ideas here to the U.S. Now, lots of other groups glommed on to throw in their own pet interests into the mix, and a lot of nativists groups jumped in to preserve white purity and all that, but we *have* been down this road before.

Last edited by Armitage12; 23 March 2016 at 12:45. Reason: Follow on thought, not a criticism though it initially read like one.
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  #44  
Old 23 March 2016, 13:03
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Originally Posted by Armitage12 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
No wide-scale destruction of Europe need occur, nor is it even desirable. I side with E5M, all that is required is to;
  1. Stop admitting ME and African muslims into Europe for anything other than visiting, and then -- only those that can be vetted as to their motives, history, and likelihood to try to remain
  2. All ME and African muslims who are not citizens of the country, deported. No whining. No exceptions. If they are not in the above category -- then goodthefuckbye.
  3. I'm against deporting anyone who is a citizen of a country, incarceration is acceptable, but I don't believe in stripping people of their citizenship. So those already under the wire, congrats.
  4. All citizens of the country(ies) in question told to ruck the fuck up and learn the national language and assimilate. No exceptions or tolerance will be made for enclaves of cultures not of that country. No such thing as "no go areas" nor laws that are outside of the laws of the country in question.
That would be a start....
Just a thought as I read your post...There is a reason why there was sufficient popular support in the 1920s to pass immigration restrictions through Congress. The late 19th/early 20th century anarchist movement and the postwar Red Scare fueled a lot of public anxiety about eastern European immigrants bringing their radical ideas here to the U.S. Now, lots of other groups glommed on to throw in their own pet interests into the mix, and a lot of nativists groups jumped in to preserve white purity and all that, but we *have* been down this road before.


To me, the answer seems relatively simple (not easy, which is entirely different) ... and should please both sides ... we need to stop judging people in groups by things like ethnicity, and start judging them as individuals by their words and deeds. If you want to immigrate, you should be willing and able to be vetted and be happy to adopt and adapt to the culture into which you are emigrating---particularly if you are desperately seeking asylum or refuge.
We, IMHO, don't need to across-the-board ban any group, we just need to say that each and every individual must be thoroughly vetted to ensure that they can and want to be a positive factor to the country and culture they are seeking to join (and if they aren't seeking to join it and make a positive contribution, why are you here, eh?). It would, as SOTB noted, have to apply to all who are already here and haven't chosen to become citizens (especially those who chose to circumvent proper channels when they came).
Now, such thorough vetting takes significant time and resources, and thus will impose natural constraints on the flow of immigrants, but it's only logical and fair to judge each individual by their own merits and potential to make a positive contribution.
That's what I would do.
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  #45  
Old 23 March 2016, 13:20
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Originally Posted by Baildog View Post
To me, the answer seems relatively simple (not easy, which is entirely different) ... and should please both sides ... we need to stop judging people in groups by things like ethnicity, and start judging them as individuals by their words and deeds. If you want to immigrate, you should be willing and able to be vetted and be happy to adopt and adapt to the culture into which you are emigrating---particularly if you are desperately seeking asylum or refuge.
We, IMHO, don't need to across-the-board ban any group, we just need to say that each and every individual must be thoroughly vetted to ensure that they can and want to be a positive factor to the country and culture they are seeking to join (and if they aren't seeking to join it and make a positive contribution, why are you here, eh?). It would, as SOTB noted, have to apply to all who are already here and haven't chosen to become citizens (especially those who chose to circumvent proper channels when they came).
Now, such thorough vetting takes significant time and resources, and thus will impose natural constraints on the flow of immigrants, but it's only logical and fair to judge each individual by their own merits and potential to make a positive contribution.
That's what I would do.
I like the premise. However, when at war, who gives a shit about "logical and fair?"
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  #46  
Old 23 March 2016, 13:28
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I'm still amazed we haven't had this type of incident in the US yet.
I said that to somebody at work yesterday and then said oh wait, we have. Glad your daughter is safe.
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  #47  
Old 23 March 2016, 13:33
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Originally Posted by Fubar View Post
I like the premise. However, when at war, who gives a shit about "logical and fair?"

The moment when you stop giving a shit about logical and go all emotional, you are pretty much fucked, in my opinion.
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  #48  
Old 23 March 2016, 13:39
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Fair enough. I think it more efficient to ban groups while the internal mechanisms to implement "Logical and Fair" are put in place.
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  #49  
Old 23 March 2016, 14:12
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Originally Posted by Baildog View Post
To me, the answer seems relatively simple (not easy, which is entirely different) ... and should please both sides ... we need to stop judging people in groups by things like ethnicity, and start judging them as individuals by their words and deeds.
OK.

But at what point to do you have to recognize that 95% of the attacks come from one single group.....

Old white grandmas from Iowa have not set off any bomb vests....however....
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  #50  
Old 23 March 2016, 14:12
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Originally Posted by Baildog View Post
To me, the answer seems relatively simple (not easy, which is entirely different) ... and should please both sides ... we need to stop judging people in groups by things like ethnicity, and start judging them as individuals by their words and deeds. If you want to immigrate, you should be willing and able to be vetted and be happy to adopt and adapt to the culture into which you are emigrating---particularly if you are desperately seeking asylum or refuge.
We, IMHO, don't need to across-the-board ban any group, we just need to say that each and every individual must be thoroughly vetted to ensure that they can and want to be a positive factor to the country and culture they are seeking to join (and if they aren't seeking to join it and make a positive contribution, why are you here, eh?). It would, as SOTB noted, have to apply to all who are already here and haven't chosen to become citizens (especially those who chose to circumvent proper channels when they came).
Now, such thorough vetting takes significant time and resources, and thus will impose natural constraints on the flow of immigrants, but it's only logical and fair to judge each individual by their own merits and potential to make a positive contribution.
That's what I would do.
I understand where you're coming from, to an extent. I agree that there needs to be a thorough vetting process. The problem is, for many if not most of these refugees...there is no vetting process that we can really pursue. They don't have the government structure that would actually support a proper vetting. Therefor, I have to agree that we should ban immigration from certain countries. There should be a few exceptions IMO. If there is a US presence in that country, and a local proves his trustworthiness through his/her service with Americans. I feel that should get him a shot at becoming an American. It's more contribution than most Americans make anyways.
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  #51  
Old 23 March 2016, 14:14
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Fair enough. I think it more efficient to ban groups while the internal mechanisms to implement "Logical and Fair" are put in place.

Well, yeah, if there were any actual interest in adopting a logical and fair approach....but it seems all the vested interests want it all one way or the other: let everyone in, because ... compassion!; or let no one in, because ... terrorism!.
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"I appeal to all our citizens, no matter from what land their forefathers came, to keep this ever in mind, and to shun with scorn and contempt the sinister intriguers and mischief-makers who would seek to divide them along lines of creed, or birthplace or of national origin."
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  #52  
Old 23 March 2016, 14:14
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Therefor, I have to agree that we should ban immigration from certain countries.
The problem, then, becomes tracking those that go through other, or multiple countries, and may not have documented origins.
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  #53  
Old 23 March 2016, 14:17
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Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
I understand where you're coming from, to an extent. I agree that there needs to be a thorough vetting process. The problem is, for many if not most of these refugees...there is no vetting process that we can really pursue. They don't have the government structure that would actually support a proper vetting. Therefor, I have to agree that we should ban immigration from certain countries. There should be a few exceptions IMO. If there is a US presence in that country, and a local proves his trustworthiness through his/her service with Americans. I feel that should get him a shot at becoming an American. It's more contribution than most Americans make anyways.
Well, it is sort of implicit in the requirement for a thorough vetting that if said vetting can't be accomplished, then admittance cannot be gained.
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- Bootsy Collins
"If you don't like freedom, for heaven's sake, pack your bags and leave"
- Rotterdam Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb
"I appeal to all our citizens, no matter from what land their forefathers came, to keep this ever in mind, and to shun with scorn and contempt the sinister intriguers and mischief-makers who would seek to divide them along lines of creed, or birthplace or of national origin."
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  #54  
Old 23 March 2016, 14:17
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The moment when you stop giving a shit about logical and go all emotional, you are pretty much fucked, in my opinion.
What's the saying? There comes a time when a man has to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.

They are at war with us and inflicting significant damage and loss of life. Our POTUS is lunching with dictators and doing waves at a baseball game while saying that global warming is the real threat.
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  #55  
Old 23 March 2016, 14:22
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Originally Posted by Streck-Fu View Post
OK.

But at what point to do you have to recognize that 95% of the attacks come from one single group.....

Old white grandmas from Iowa have not set off any bomb vests....however....
How many old white grandmas from Iowa are applying to emigrate to the Untied States?

But if you meant old white grandmas from, say, Ireland ... the answer is I don't know for sure but probably more than zero

But, seriously, why is it actually better to judge everyone by that standard rather than to individually discriminate? Just because it's easier, or is there some other tangible benefit that makes a blanket ban a better solution than a vetting process?
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"If you don't like freedom, for heaven's sake, pack your bags and leave"
- Rotterdam Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb
"I appeal to all our citizens, no matter from what land their forefathers came, to keep this ever in mind, and to shun with scorn and contempt the sinister intriguers and mischief-makers who would seek to divide them along lines of creed, or birthplace or of national origin."
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  #56  
Old 23 March 2016, 14:26
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Originally Posted by CA SGT View Post
What's the saying? There comes a time when a man has to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.

They are at war with us and inflicting significant damage and loss of life. Our POTUS is lunching with dictators and doing waves at a baseball game while saying that global warming is the real threat.
And our current strategy of appeasement probably will eventually back us into a corner where we have no choice but to slit throats indiscriminately.

But that doesn't mean I think that is a good plan.


ETA: If there really are only two choices---let everyone in or let no one in---then I am 100% on board with let no one in. I will take SOTB as POTUS over our current POTUS (or our next POTUS) every time.
I just don't understand why there just doesn't ever seem to be more than two choices to any issue.
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"If you set out to take Vienna...take Vienna"
- Napoleon
"If you want to be free...then you can't be dumb"
- Bootsy Collins
"If you don't like freedom, for heaven's sake, pack your bags and leave"
- Rotterdam Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb
"I appeal to all our citizens, no matter from what land their forefathers came, to keep this ever in mind, and to shun with scorn and contempt the sinister intriguers and mischief-makers who would seek to divide them along lines of creed, or birthplace or of national origin."
- Teddy Roosevelt

Last edited by Baildog; 23 March 2016 at 14:32.
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  #57  
Old 23 March 2016, 14:35
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Originally Posted by Baildog View Post

But, seriously, why is it actually better to judge everyone by that standard rather than to individually discriminate? Just because it's easier, or is there some other tangible benefit that makes a blanket ban a better solution than a vetting process?
Risk management.

You mitigate the greatest risk. Spending equal resources on 90% of those known to be of little risk to as to the 10% that are responsible for over 90% of the problems is not a smart application of resources.

Harassing everyone equally in the name of fairness is not fair to the groups that are responsible for nothing. And if those of Arab and Muslim decent get butthurt about, tell they have no one to blame but those with the same names and origins that committed the attacks.
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  #58  
Old 23 March 2016, 15:25
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Originally Posted by Maverick
There should be a few exceptions IMO. If there is a US presence in that country, and a local proves his trustworthiness through his/her service with Americans. I feel that should get him a shot at becoming an American. It's more contribution than most Americans make anyways.
I never understand this reasoning. So we basically have a gladiators competition to see which LN has sucked our collective cock enough to get a ticket to Disneyworld? Fuck that.

I think a lot of times people forget we are paying these people MONEY. And often rewarding them with POWER. And the ability/opportunity to fuck over their neighbors. And oh gee -- because we see this puppydog deference to all things gringo, we clamor to lift this person up and proclaim him "like us." Really? He's "like us?" In what way? Because when he shits, he does so through his rectum?

LNs rarely have a fucking thing in common with our culture -- and the last thing our nation needs is to build a merc force and promise nationality in exchange for picking up guns on our behalf.

Here's a concept -- pick up guns on our behalf and you can keep your land. All you gotta do is win. Kill all of those we don't like. Then MAYBE -- and this is by no fucking means guaranteed -- if we still like you at the end of it all, you MIGHT get a visa to come visit the land of the big PX. Although it isn't really likely, since all we need do is remember that you picked up guns on our behalf against your own countrymen for nothing more than the idea of getting the chance to stroll through a Krogers every week.

They. Don't. Have. Anything. In. Common. With. Us.

Period....
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  #59  
Old 23 March 2016, 15:30
ramzmedic ramzmedic is offline
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Originally Posted by Baildog View Post
we need to stop judging people in groups by things like ethnicity, and start judging them as individuals by their words and deeds.
I agree, but instead of saying ban all Muslims, I would like better to just ban all Middle Easterners or specific ME countries. That way it is not a religious issue but a geographic one. At the very least, no ME males between 18 and 40.
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  #60  
Old 23 March 2016, 15:46
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
... all we need do is remember that you picked up guns on our behalf against your own countrymen for nothing more than the idea of getting the chance to stroll through a Krogers every week.

They. Don't. Have. Anything. In. Common. With. Us.

Period....

The only valid reason to become an American, in my opinion, is because you want to be An American. Not because you want the lifestyle, but because you believe in the culture. Because you share American values....like freedom of speech and religion.

The whole intentional cultural ghettoization that the West practices in a mistaken belief that that is somehow being respectful of other cultures is just plain stupid.

You know what Made America Great? Ripping off the best of other cultures and making it our own. Not letting people cluster together and try to turn the New World into the Old World.

Belgium's desire to let immigrants turn the Old World into the Third World is a large part of why they can now expect to keep getting their shit blown up.

It's not because they let muslims in ... it's because they did it indiscriminately, and then let them fester in ghettos no different from where they came from. If people want to live together, they have to integrate ... become part of the local culture. If you want to live in Belgium, be a Belgian.

All of this is probably just idealistic crap, and probably too little too late (especially for Belgium).
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- Napoleon
"If you want to be free...then you can't be dumb"
- Bootsy Collins
"If you don't like freedom, for heaven's sake, pack your bags and leave"
- Rotterdam Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb
"I appeal to all our citizens, no matter from what land their forefathers came, to keep this ever in mind, and to shun with scorn and contempt the sinister intriguers and mischief-makers who would seek to divide them along lines of creed, or birthplace or of national origin."
- Teddy Roosevelt
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