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  #21  
Old 27 June 2016, 11:07
RN47 RN47 is offline
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Originally Posted by hawkdrver View Post
A clearly articulated desired end state would have been a nice way to start.
Pffft. Endstates are for little people.

Outside of a few expeditionary 'wars' (Urgent Fury/OJC) and Desert Shield/Storm-- where the outcomes were largely predetermined and exercised the application of Billy Jack Tactics ("right foot-left cheek and not a damn thing you're gonna to do about it") we haven't bothered with operational end states for 60 years. Contiguous/linear operations are so much easier, don't you agree?

It's maddening to look back at the goat fuck orchestrated by Rumsfeld at the beginning of OEF and the continued lack of vision exercised by CENTCOM general officers by extension for the next 15 years. Just a bunch of palliative nurses keeping the brain dead patient barely alive on their shift.

I agree that a six month massive bombing campaign as suggested by B 2/75 beginning in OCT/NOV 2001 would have been a solid course of action. The next significant terrorist attack on a western target claimed by AQ following this campaign is answered by a low yield nuke. "What we've got here, is a failure to communicate. Some people you just can't reach...which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it."
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  #22  
Old 27 June 2016, 16:27
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We started to lose when we started setting up hescos
Best one line summary to date.
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  #23  
Old 27 June 2016, 17:35
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Originally Posted by RN47 View Post
I agree that a six month massive bombing campaign as suggested by B 2/75 beginning in OCT/NOV 2001 would have been a solid course of action. The next significant terrorist attack on a western target claimed by AQ following this campaign is answered by a low yield nuke. "What we've got here, is a failure to communicate. Some people you just can't reach...which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it."
As I have said quite a few times the only thing radical Islam understands is complete unadulterated violence of action. Studying history that is why the Christians unleashed the Crusades and gave them back exactly what the Muslims dished out and it worked.

We need the "for every one of ours, we kill 100 of yours" plan. Then it exponentially increases with every Muslim attack. That is the only thing that will get their attention and get them to stop their psycho bull shit
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  #24  
Old 27 June 2016, 17:50
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
As I have said quite a few times the only thing radical Islam understands is complete unadulterated violence of action. Studying history that is why the Christians unleashed the Crusades and gave them back exactly what the Muslims dished out and it worked.

We need the "for every one of ours, we kill 100 of yours" plan. Then it exponentially increases with every Muslim attack. That is the only thing that will get their attention and get them to stop their psycho bull shit
The failure of the crusaders were leaving any muslim alive. Other than that, I agree with your post.
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  #25  
Old 27 June 2016, 18:01
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
As I have said quite a few times the only thing radical Islam understands is complete unadulterated violence of action. Studying history that is why the Christians unleashed the Crusades and gave them back exactly what the Muslims dished out and it worked.

We need the "for every one of ours, we kill 100 of yours" plan. Then it exponentially increases with every Muslim attack. That is the only thing that will get their attention and get them to stop their psycho bull shit
Yup... taking the thread full circle back to SB's point...Nukes. my add... lots of them. The final crusade.
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  #26  
Old 27 June 2016, 18:41
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
As I have said quite a few times the only thing radical Islam understands is complete unadulterated violence of action. Studying history that is why the Christians unleashed the Crusades and gave them back exactly what the Muslims dished out and it worked.

We need the "for every one of ours, we kill 100 of yours" plan. Then it exponentially increases with every Muslim attack. That is the only thing that will get their attention and get them to stop their psycho bull shit
Wasn't it Sherman who said..."The crueler was is, the sooner it's over."
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  #27  
Old 27 June 2016, 18:43
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We need the "for every one of ours, we kill 100 of yours" plan. Then it exponentially increases with every Muslim attack. That is the only thing that will get their attention and get them to stop their psycho bull shit
A very large part of the American populace does not consider "Islam" to be our enemy. Many Americans believe we are only in conflict with a small group of radicals that shouldn't be defined by their religion, but by their poor treatment by Americans. This group believes that if we could only convince them that we are here to help them and that we love them very much, then the enemy would turn away from violence and embrace us as brothers and sisters.
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  #28  
Old 27 June 2016, 18:52
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Originally Posted by 0699 View Post
A very large part of the American populace does not consider "Islam" to be our enemy. Many Americans believe we are only in conflict with a small group of radicals that shouldn't be defined by their religion, but by their poor treatment by Americans. This group believes that if we could only convince them that we are here to help them and that we love them very much, then the enemy would turn away from violence and embrace us as brothers and sisters.
Are you sure it is a "large part" of the populace? I think we are being snowed by the media to think that. I talk with a lot of people in my line of work, all across the Country. The majority I've come across don't agree with you. I'm sure part of the rise of The Donald is due in part because of true Islamophobia.
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  #29  
Old 27 June 2016, 18:53
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Or on a "more humane" approach supply weapons and ammo to whoever is losing in their own tribal factions and wait until one of the other sects start losing then supply them with weapons until mutual internal annihilation of the entire country... all with our courtesy air drops of flyers stating simply... "if you take this outside your own shithole... very bright lights and skin melting radioactive flux and heat incoming"
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Last edited by xenonburnout; 27 June 2016 at 19:00.
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  #30  
Old 27 June 2016, 19:03
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Originally Posted by Fubar View Post
Are you sure it is a "large part" of the populace? I think we are being snowed by the media to think that. I talk with a lot of people in my line of work, all across the Country. The majority I've come across don't agree with you. I'm sure part of the rise of The Donald is due in part because of true Islamophobia.
That's why I made a very vague statement. I have not done any independent research, but I find that outside of the ex-military/retired cop community, a lot of the people I talk to believe that we can make them deradicalize by being nicer to them and more understanding. These are many of the same people that believe if we eliminate guns in the hands of civilians then we will be a more peaceful nation.
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  #31  
Old 1 July 2016, 11:00
Azatty Azatty is offline
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Originally Posted by 0699 View Post
a lot of the people I talk to believe that we can make them deradicalize by being nicer to them and more understanding.
That's the educator's view. Which, unfortunately, is taught from kindergarten onward. It's the belief that they're savages because they don't know any better. That if we build a civilization for them and teach them a better way, they'll lift themselves out of savagery. There's some validity to that thought--look at the Huns or the Mongols or any other barbarian tribe. They were eventually absorbed/pacified by the civilizations they conquered and ceased to become conquerors.

The problem is, the barbarians were rationally driven--more land, more women, more wealth, more power. They accomplished their goals, and then petered out as a threat by enjoying the fruits of their success. Success to Islam, however, is an Islamic planet; by the sword if necessary.
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  #32  
Old 5 July 2016, 08:53
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^^^^ THIS!
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  #33  
Old 5 July 2016, 09:01
Gsniper Gsniper is offline
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My Mother, who is a retired school teacher and quite liberal, believes this. She frequently tells me all the world's problems cannot be solved by violence. I love my Mother dearly, but it never fails to piss me off when somebody who has never been anywhere near the middle east or Afghanistan pontificates about what will work over there.
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  #34  
Old 5 July 2016, 17:15
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Originally Posted by 0699 View Post
That's why I made a very vague statement. I have not done any independent research, but I find that outside of the ex-military/retired cop community, a lot of the people I talk to believe that we can make them deradicalize by being nicer to them and more understanding. These are many of the same people that believe if we eliminate guns in the hands of civilians then we will be a more peaceful nation.
You are talking to the wrong people ... cut negativity out of your life

Seriously, I am back at Uni doing "Security, Terrorism and Counterterrorism" (yes that is how the Uni spells it) and by and large, your description is the attitude of the student body who all follow those paragon's of Life, The Universe and Everything, yes you guessed it, the Tutors and Professors.

I am all but tearing my hair out and have already been spoken to gently for using the word "idiots" in a discussion group. Apparently someone may have been hurt by my word/s.

Ohh I am also the only person I that has time in country, that includes the other ADF members in my class.
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  #35  
Old 6 July 2016, 19:52
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Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
My Mother, who is a retired school teacher and quite liberal, believes this. She frequently tells me all the world's problems cannot be solved by violence. I love my Mother dearly, but it never fails to piss me off when somebody who has never been anywhere near the middle east or Afghanistan pontificates about what will work over there.
BINGO.
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