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  #41  
Old 23 June 2016, 12:09
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Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET View Post
That's well written!
Thank you, sir!

About those place names, the most notable one I remember is Samarkand being originally a forcibly settled colony of people from Samaria.
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  #42  
Old 23 June 2016, 12:12
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
But now, it is good to have our observations scientifically validated so the next time someone tells me I'm a 'racist' for calling them fucking retards I can tell them to shut their pie hole - it is scientific fact - jack!
The author of the study mentioned in the article has no peer reviewed publications regarding his alleged findings, and has not cited a single published study to support his conclusion. And good luck finding the dataset from his own research. There are more credible sources for the information that aren't propagandists.
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  #43  
Old 23 June 2016, 12:17
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So muslim populations in the ME are inbreeding due to their jewish backgrounds.
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  #44  
Old 23 June 2016, 12:21
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Bottom line: Islam is not simply a benign and morally equivalent alternative to the Judeo-Christian tradition.
I don't remember anyone ever saying that. The Judeo-Christian tradition is built on instruments of moral absolutism, eg. the Ten Commandments. Islam is built on moral relativism.
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  #45  
Old 23 June 2016, 12:21
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Originally Posted by MikeC2W View Post
So muslim populations in the ME are inbreeding due to their jewish backgrounds.
Who knew?
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  #46  
Old 23 June 2016, 12:24
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Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
The author of the study mentioned in the article has no peer reviewed publications regarding his alleged findings, and has not cited a single published study to support his conclusion. And good luck finding the dataset from his own research. There are more credible sources for the information that aren't propagandists.
Here's a few:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../266440a0.html

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gn.../#.V2wL9KJG5_Q

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC392897/


Studying IQ's is a sensitive subject as it is. Never mind getting into the weeds of trying to explain the regressive behaviors of one culture vs another. Because, you know, cultural relativism.
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  #47  
Old 23 June 2016, 12:56
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I have trained 30+ Pak Mil Officers/Pilots over the years. I would say at least half of them stated they were married to their cousin!
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  #48  
Old 23 June 2016, 13:09
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  #49  
Old 23 June 2016, 13:22
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Originally Posted by ET1/ss nuke View Post
It's a matter of degree. Muhammad didn't create the tradition of cousin marriage, he took a common practice in Arab culture and formalized it as morally superior. Cousin marriage was already a normal thing, just not a thing for everyone and certainly not mandatory, until Muhammad. It was several centuries before Islam reached central and southeastern Asia, which might not have had much experience with cousin marriage prior to that, and those cultures had more ingrained practices that Islam layered over instead of replacing. Cousin marriages in southern and southeastern Asia are a more hit or miss proposition as likely to be due to local factors as to anything Islamic. Hinduism has its own version of cousin or uncle marriage related to keeping the family within their jati (job field) within their larger varna (caste). When the Mughals imposed their flavor of Sharia in India for two centuries, the locals already had a stricter and far older set of marriage rules.

An exception is the Stans. Some of the northern 10 tribes of Israelites conquered by the Assyrian Empire eventually wound up being colonized on the northeastern frontier of one empire or another. A lot of place names in the Stans reflect that. Until forcibly converted to Islam at a much later date, they continued with Judaism to some extent and retained many of their cultural practices, including not voluntarily marrying outsiders. Afghanistan has always and forever been an unruly place 4 centuries behind the rest of the world and best avoided if possible, so even the Islamization of that place never completely removed some cultural elements that differentiate Afghans from other Muslims and are in many cases rooted in vestiges of Judaism. A fair chunk of the Afghans were therefore quite inbred well before they became Muslims, and reflect the same characteristics of chronic inbreeding found profusely in Arabs but less so in other Muslim ethnicities.
Good post, I learned a bit on this one.
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  #50  
Old 23 June 2016, 13:35
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I don't think this is a muslim issue... more cultural.

There were Arab Christians who were married to their cousins as well. Cultural and / or limited pool of mates due to keeping it within their religion.

I would guess (pure speculation) there there may also be tribal pressure to keep it in the family so to speak as well.
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  #51  
Old 23 June 2016, 13:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPTAUSRET View Post
Who knew?
If it's Judaism that started inbreeding, why do the Jews contribute so much? Shouldn't they be as dumb as the Arabs in the ME?
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  #52  
Old 23 June 2016, 14:01
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Originally Posted by MikeC2W View Post
If it's Judaism that started inbreeding, why do the Jews contribute so much? Shouldn't they be as dumb as the Arabs in the ME?
They branched out to Europe, under force as I recall. Maybe that helped dilute things a bit.
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  #53  
Old 23 June 2016, 14:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GackMan View Post
I don't think this is a muslim issue... more cultural.

There were Arab Christians who were married to their cousins as well. Cultural and / or limited pool of mates due to keeping it within their religion.

I would guess (pure speculation) there there may also be tribal pressure to keep it in the family so to speak as well.

Agree. There are a number of factors that contribute, of which religion is certainly one but not the only.
Religion does have a large influence, and thus would be significant in propagating or changing the trend. I don't hold any hope of a sort of Islamic Reformation or Enlightenment ...
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  #54  
Old 23 June 2016, 14:57
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Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
The author of the study mentioned in the article has no peer reviewed publications regarding his alleged findings, and has not cited a single published study to support his conclusion. And good luck finding the dataset from his own research. There are more credible sources for the information that aren't propagandists.
Well that sucks
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  #55  
Old 23 June 2016, 15:09
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I've met plenty of intelligent Iraqis and Jordanians.
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  #56  
Old 23 June 2016, 15:12
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I've met plenty of intelligent Iraqis and Jordanians.
Imagine how much smarter they would have been if their parents weren't cousins!!!

Only thing I know is you can't turn around in Hebron or Ramallah without running into someone with a serious birth defect. I was always unsure as to whether it was inbreeding, or inferior medical care, or both.
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  #57  
Old 23 June 2016, 16:06
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I have been fortunate enough to work with some very good Afghanis as well as some of the Middle Eastern types. That being said, even some of the ones that seem to "get it" are still marrying their cousins. Very bizarre.
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  #58  
Old 23 June 2016, 18:38
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I wonder if this is one of the reasons Daesh recruits so heavily for foreign fighters; vice using local Arabs?

That, and their combat experience and fanaticism...
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  #59  
Old 23 June 2016, 18:53
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The cousin marriage thing is cultural. It manifests in Muslims because they are the vast majority in the middle east. Simple math.

The cousin thing is about proximity as much as anything else. In the US, it was very common before highway systems were developed. Interestingly, in most eastern states cousin marriage was legal, but avunculate marriage was not. In the west, that was reversed.
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  #60  
Old 23 June 2016, 19:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARCHANGELRANGER View Post
The cousin marriage thing is cultural. It manifests in Muslims because they are the vast majority in the middle east. Simple math.

The cousin thing is about proximity as much as anything else. In the US, it was very common before highway systems were developed. Interestingly, in most eastern states cousin marriage was legal, but avunculate marriage was not. In the west, that was reversed.
Had to look that one up.
I guess there's a word for everything ...
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