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  #21  
Old 9 September 2016, 21:31
RemTech RemTech is offline
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Poison - I don't necessarily disagree but we are talking about a 7 year old kid. There is very little that sticks. The approach is to "coach" them into the different disciplines and encourage them along. Maybe at the end of the day they don't want to do it or if they think they are superman that can be corrected. Not necessarily disagreeing just offering a different opinion.
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  #22  
Old 10 September 2016, 15:21
poison poison is offline
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I see what youre saying, but my dojo starts kids with a 30 minute, falling-only class, at 4-5 years old, for 3-6 months. That's all little kids can take, instruction-wise, and they can't keep their heads of the mat when thrown without training. Kids that start at that age, are pretty proficient by age 7. Kids that start at age 7 tend to love it, and quickly progress.

As much as I like the influence MMA has had on martial arts in general, I think it fosters dabbling, and discourages commitment, at any age. Being a jack of all trades, master of none, isn't ideal, and dragging kids between multiple classes ensures they don't gain proficiency in anything. In this day and age of pussification, there's a lot to be said for sticking with something until proficiency. My daughters both do judo, both agreed to do it til they get their black belts, and I'm holding them to that, even when they bitch and moan.
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  #23  
Old 10 September 2016, 15:25
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Judo saved my life once.

So my advice is Judo (as much for the regimented honor/self-discipline as learning to control/deflect and how to "fall" correctly), combined with supervised "kids" Krav-Maga (maybe with GGP involved).

Last edited by Tycon; 10 September 2016 at 15:37.
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  #24  
Old 10 September 2016, 15:35
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Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Just teaching a 7 year old confidence, situational awareness, improving they motor skills, and the fun/fitness they will have in a children's martial arts class though will give them a much better posturing in life.
^This. Anything with Great-grampa involved WILL stick!
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  #25  
Old 10 September 2016, 15:53
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The Corporate Guy The Corporate Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
As much as I like the influence MMA has had on martial arts in general, I think it fosters dabbling, and discourages commitment, at any age. Being a jack of all trades, master of none, isn't ideal, and dragging kids between multiple classes ensures they don't gain proficiency in anything.
IMO, that is not what MMA is or does or is about. At all.

Definitely not about being a jack of all trades...its about taking the most desired aspects of multiple trades, disregarding those aspects which are less helpful, and getting very proficient at a more well-rounded skill set and being less one dimensional. That provides real options on how to deal with different scenarios.

As far as dabbling goes, the kids at the place I'm familiar with have dabbled their way to Golden Gloves championships, world KB titles, grappling belts and all kinds of MMA wins up to and including the UFC. The idea that MMA discourages commitment and proficiency is folly.

One of the problems (and not the only problem) with MMA is that every gym is different and some are excellent for kids and some are very NOT appropriate for kids.

(ETA: I'm not promoting MMA as the best options for most kids...IMO a good program in any of a variety of sports such as boxing, wrestling, judo, BJJ or MMA where kids can get the reality of a fully-resisting opponent - in a safe environment - is a good place to start)
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Last edited by The Corporate Guy; 10 September 2016 at 16:00.
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  #26  
Old 12 September 2016, 00:30
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My 8 year old son has about a year of BJJ so far. He can do a take down (single or double leg), shoulder throw, trip, mount, closed guard, open the guard, take the back, etc.

He started when he was 7 and loves it. He can do all these against resisting opponents. I heartily endorse BJJ for kids, but really any MA that allows you to drill/practice at full or almost full resistance against an opponent.
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  #27  
Old 12 September 2016, 12:11
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You're unlikely to get every thing you want with one martial art. I would focus on something that can be fun, but which will also make him "tougher". Both boxing and judo fit these criteria because they are tough on the body, and your practice is a realistic measure of your abilities.


ANY striking art is better than none. MT seems very effective. Boxing is good too. Taekwondo is mostly taught as a kicking sport to win tournaments - avoid that kind of dojo.
Judo - because it teaches groundwork and how to make the opponent feel the ground while you get dominant. But he'll ALSO learn throws and trips, along with submissions (which gives it an edge over BJJ alone, which he can always do as cross training).

BUT, anything is much better than nothing.
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  #28  
Old 12 September 2016, 12:36
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I remember being a wrestler and getting into a "friendly" altercation with a judo kid. Man all I wanted was to get my hands on him but I kept getting tossed around. Though I stuck with wrestling all the way to college it made quite an impression on me.

College i got into BJJ through a club sport. They did one night a week of MT. When I realized I could kick someone in the head instead of rolling around on the ground with them.. man it was liberating.

However, this isn't about me, it's about what's best for your grand son.

My two bent buckles are to stick with wrestling. It will get him in shape, teach him to control a resisting person, give them confidence by allowing them to go full force against another person, and teach them take down defense.

Once he is older (16? 18?) Get him involved in a striking art (I prefer MT but that's just me). By that point he will be lean and mean from years of wrestling and have a bomb proof take down defense. Excellent cardio, and not be afraid of actually fighting (and dominating) a resisting opponent.

Anyone can throw a punch, but if you don't know how to stuff a take down you are going to end up on your back. Almost all scuffles end up in clinch / wrestling - best to build your foundation there and then learn to strike.

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  #29  
Old 12 September 2016, 16:25
poison poison is offline
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Originally Posted by The Corporate Guy View Post
IMO, that is not what MMA is or does or is about. At all.

Definitely not about being a jack of all trades...its about taking the most desired aspects of multiple trades, disregarding those aspects which are less helpful, and getting very proficient at a more well-rounded skill set and being less one dimensional. That provides real options on how to deal with different scenarios.

As far as dabbling goes, the kids at the place I'm familiar with have dabbled their way to Golden Gloves championships, world KB titles, grappling belts and all kinds of MMA wins up to and including the UFC. The idea that MMA discourages commitment and proficiency is folly.

One of the problems (and not the only problem) with MMA is that every gym is different and some are excellent for kids and some are very NOT appropriate for kids.

(ETA: I'm not promoting MMA as the best options for most kids...IMO a good program in any of a variety of sports such as boxing, wrestling, judo, BJJ or MMA where kids can get the reality of a fully-resisting opponent - in a safe environment - is a good place to start)
I agree that's what it CAN do, I just don't think that's usually the case.

Wrestling is awesome. There's some crossover between judo and wrestling, but theyre totally different means to a similar end. Judo is more efficient, less power more finesse, but thats not better, just different. Judo has submissions, which is an edge too. But wrestlers have a work ethic second to none, they tend to have excellent instructors at the public school level. A few girls from my judo dojo recently started wrestling, after 6 years of judo. One made state her first year in (last year), the other probably will this year. The older one already had a good concussion, which isn't good, and far less common in judo (more safety built in). Watching her judo now, wrestling is having a somewhat negative effect on it (partly why I'm against mixing martial arts until later). But then these girls do bjj as well, and compete in all three, so they Re kind of outliers.

Last edited by poison; 12 September 2016 at 16:35.
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  #30  
Old 23 September 2016, 08:27
Raijlin Raijlin is offline
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I have recently reassessed how I teach the programs at my school. In my location, the attrition rate is very high. Most children, and adults for that matter, do not have the commitment of time it takes to achieve a "black belt." Most want to learn the self-defense aspects, which can be quite different from learning the "Art".

I began training in American Kenpo, Modern Arnis, and Kickboxing. Once I entered the Marine Corps, I learned BJJ from my Gunny, Chinese Spring Leg Kung Fu from my Lt., and Close Combat/Marine Corps Martial Arts. Eventually I picked up MMA for about 3 years.

Bottom line is I agree with what most have said above. There is no "ultimate" style, as they all have their inherent weaknesses. Many schools have fallen sway to the "McDojo" idea in order to meet and exceed their bottom line.

In the past three months, I stopped teaching adult classes while I reassessed my direction in my program. I decided I care more about sharing the self-defense aspects and have begun to tailor the program as such to include American Boxing, Kenpo, jiujitsu, Aikido (For Level three of the Force Continuum only), and Arnis/Eskrima.

For my classes is, I want to provide the tools to the students so if faced, they have the option of how to deal with the situation. Rather than have that option taken from them. As I told them last night ... no one can teach you to become Jack Reacher/Jason Bourne as they have 50 tries to get one shot looking perfect.

I personally feel having the child do BOTH American boxing and JiuJitsu/Wrestling at the same time is a good base to build from. This way he feels confident standing up and if it goes to the ground, it will teach him to pin and control the opponent until the teacher/principal/school resource officer responds.
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  #31  
Old 23 September 2016, 08:33
Raijlin Raijlin is offline
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I might add that what led me to reflect on this is in American Kenpo, I was told we learn the 120 techniques (from Purple to 1st Black) to learn the Principles of Motion so in the end, we forget the techniques and understand the flow. That worked for me, cause when I was younger I would spend 15 to 20 hours a week in the studio.

Again, the average person doesn't have that dedication anymore, unfortunately. And after analyzing Hick's Law and seeing the exponential increase of reaction time when one new concept is added, I realized American Kenpo as it is innately taught is cumbersome. It is much better to teach a solid base in American boxing for its basic strikes and more importantly footwork and BJJ. Then build Kenpo or an additional "art" in to address the greater principles in understanding various weapons, the reaction each weapon will cause on the human body, and why certain combinations are used to generate certain affects.

Cause let's be honest. 99% of the people train for a class for 45 minutes and come time to spar, all "technique" is thrown out the window and it immediately becomes a boxing, kickboxing, and BJJ match. LOL
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  #32  
Old 23 September 2016, 09:17
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For kids the discipline of a traditional martial art is good. It keeps them active and gives them a good foundation to build off of. I taught kids TKD and Hapkido for years. Many of them went on to kickboxing and other sports.

I also agree with wrestling. I astarted wrestling when I was 8 through high school. Learning to take care of yourself on the ground is a great thing for a kid. Hell, Wrestling conditioning made Army PT easy.
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  #33  
Old 23 September 2016, 10:44
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Originally Posted by Chimo View Post
For kids the discipline of a traditional martial art is good. It keeps them active and gives them a good foundation to build off of. I taught kids TKD and Hapkido for years. Many of them went on to kickboxing and other sports.

I also agree with wrestling. I astarted wrestling when I was 8 through high school. Learning to take care of yourself on the ground is a great thing for a kid. Hell, Wrestling conditioning made Army PT easy.
I agree. Besides my adult classes, I have a couple of Junior High age Thai girls I am giving private lessons to. The traditional forms are helping give them some discipline, focus, and direction - one of the main goals their parents have me giving them lessons for. So we practice the forms, punching drills, foot work - then do some practical applications in self defense as well.

And Yes, on wrestling also, for a young man in Jr/Sr HS. Where I learned to be aggressive, be competitive, learn techniques and as you said the best all around sport for physical fitness to prep a youngster for the military. Our coach was a USMC Vietnam veteran as well. Coach Moriarty - a god man. RIP.
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Last edited by leopardprey; 23 September 2016 at 10:51.
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