Go Back   SOCNET: The Special Operations Community Network > General Topics > The Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 7 March 2017, 14:06
hawkdrver's Avatar
hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
Red Headed Stepchild
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: AK
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark0311 View Post
I said that twice but leadership needs to learn to adapt to this environment to prevent this level of escalation.
I'll bite. For the guys that have been out for awhile, I can just about guarantee that everyone involved in this shit show has sat through 1 bazillion hours of SARC/infosec/don't be a dipshit on social media training since day 1 in boot camp (and getting ready to sit through a lot more as a result of this). Assuming they've already heard "don't be stupid on social media" 50,000 times and this kind of shit continues happening anyway, how do you get ahead of the next one? Prohibit anyone under 25 from getting on the internet? 24/7 SNCO chaperone?
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 7 March 2017, 14:12
Agoge's Avatar
Agoge Agoge is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 5,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkdrver View Post
I'll bite. For the guys that have been out for awhile, I can just about guarantee that everyone involved in this shit show has sat through 1 bazillion hours of SARC/infosec/don't be a dipshit on social media training since day 1 in boot camp (and getting ready to sit through a lot more as a result of this). Assuming they've already heard "don't be stupid on social media" 50,000 times and this kind of shit continues happening anyway, how do you get ahead of the next one? Prohibit anyone under 25 from getting on the internet? 24/7 SNCO chaperone?
You are correct...it isn't a leadership issue. It's a major stupid issue on multiple levels. You can't watch idiots 24/7 and you can't make them use common sense. It's a failure at the individual's level (all those involved) and the argument that it's "always been done" doesn't make it right or OK. But, I do love to hear that excuse as to why we should not be shocked when we hear it happening.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 7 March 2017, 14:26
MixedLoad's Avatar
MixedLoad MixedLoad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NORCAL
Posts: 7,937
The whole sharing of nude pics etc is almost certainly based on the expectation of privacy between consenting people. I don't care what people do in their bedroom, on their phones, or what sites they peruse. While there's already some slut-shaming going on here, those female Marines almost certainly didn't go "yeah, post my naked pictures on 4chan".

The problem isn't with people's desires but with the fact that it's become cool to not give a shit about someone's privacy, and the complete lack of respect or consideration for others.

Guys are posting selfies while in firefights, for fuck's sake. What's next? Facebook Live streaming the invasion of Mosul?

It's the whole "me first" narcissism and need to be admired by others that's driving this kind of behavior. The fact that this happened in the USMC isn't telling me that the Corps has a problem, it's a glimpse of the issue we have as a society.
__________________
“Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re"

"Operator much like rock and roll, is dead." - ClearedHot
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 7 March 2017, 14:30
Agoge's Avatar
Agoge Agoge is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 5,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
The whole sharing of nude pics etc is almost certainly based on the expectation of privacy between consenting people. I don't care what people do in their bedroom, on their phones, or what sites they peruse. While there's already some slut-shaming going on here, those female Marines almost certainly didn't go "yeah, post my naked pictures on 4chan".

The problem isn't with people's desires but with the fact that it's become cool to not give a shit about someone's privacy, and the complete lack of respect or consideration for others.

Guys are posting selfies while in firefights, for fuck's sake. What's next? Facebook Live streaming the invasion of Mosul?

It's the whole "me first" narcissism and need to be admired by others that's driving this kind of behavior. The fact that this happened in the USMC isn't telling me that the Corps has a problem, it's a glimpse of the issue we have as a society.
10 ring!
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 7 March 2017, 14:32
hawkdrver's Avatar
hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
Red Headed Stepchild
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: AK
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
You are correct...it isn't a leadership issue. It's a major stupid issue on multiple levels. You can't watch idiots 24/7 and you can't make them use common sense. It's a failure at the individual's level (all those involved) and the argument that it's "always been done" doesn't make it right or OK. But, I do love to hear that excuse as to why we should not be shocked when we hear it happening.
To be clear, I'm not absolving anyone, including leadership, of responsibility in this. I'm just not sure how you effectively prevent it. For every one of these that makes the news there are probably a hundred that don't. Hammering the balls of everyone involved is appropriate but doesn't have much, if any effect on the 2% that are the ones inclined to do it.

Example: My last unit was relatively mature, age wise and otherwise, and there was a strict and well advertised policy on what was and was not appropriate to put on social media. Even so, a couple of times a year someone would get in trouble for shit that ended up on Facebook, and we didn't have any 19-20 year olds. For comparison's sake, I can't remember anyone from that unit getting a DUI or having a SARC issue, etc in over a decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
The fact that this happened in the USMC isn't telling me that the Corps has a problem, it's a glimpse of the issue we have as a society.
^+1

Last edited by hawkdrver; 7 March 2017 at 14:42.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 7 March 2017, 15:07
Medic4070's Avatar
Medic4070 Medic4070 is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Believeraz View Post
We, the SOCNET LE community, do not claim him. His posting does not conform with our values or culture.
Amen. X2.
__________________
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmond Burke
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 7 March 2017, 15:12
Shark0311 Shark0311 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkdrver View Post
I can just about guarantee that everyone involved in this shit show has sat through 1 bazillion hours of SARC/infosec/don't be a dipshit on social media training since day 1 in boot camp (and getting ready to sit through a lot more as a result of this).
Having a class is merely an attempt at saying "oh look we did something" regardless of the effectiveness.

Leadership is accomplished by taking your subordinates in hand (maybe after you put a boot in their ass to get their attention) and setting the standard. You can't watch these guys 24/7 so you have to teach them by setting the example and earning their loyalty but it doesn't end when the workday does.

Someone failed to set the standard here and lost control of their subordinates, it's more likely that they didn't have it to begin with.

Last edited by Guy; 7 March 2017 at 18:26. Reason: Fixed formatting.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 7 March 2017, 15:16
KidA's Avatar
KidA KidA is offline
Authorized Personnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: WbyGV
Posts: 18,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post

The problem isn't with people's desires but with the fact that it's become cool to not give a shit about someone's privacy, and the complete lack of respect or consideration for others.

..
Bingo. Hey our own country doesn't care about our privacy anymore so why should anyone else? I think most people already assume that anything they say and do anywhere, except on a street corner at night, is discoverable by the Govt, and probably that street corner conversation too with public cameras and facial recognition.

So why should individuals care about privacy? They've already given it up.

Quote:
It's the whole "me first" narcissism and need to be admired by others that's driving this kind of behavior.
Which is probably why I have a huge concern with the leader of our Country and Tweeting activities...
__________________
Hey homo, its me -- Andy/SOTB
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 7 March 2017, 15:35
DirtyDog0311's Avatar
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 6,082
I don't think what happened here is indicative of the modern narcissist epidemic (except at the rate chicks will throw a naked selfie out there) or the lack of privacy push by govts. The internet just makes it easier to 1 - Get caught, 2 - allow it to achieve a much larger magnitude due to accessibility before it gets caught and 3 - allow people to freak the fuck out in ever greater numbers and intensity (eg - Cecil the Lion). People have been doing this shit for a long time. Blue falcons aren't some new creature in the .mil.

This is just the electronic version of the, in my 'day', shoebox the Lcpls used to keep in their wall lockers of all the dumb bar girls that allowed them to take pics with those shitty Kodak disposable cameras. The ones that Gunnys would find during a health and comfort and be like "oh shit devil dog, what you got there??" as they proceed to rat-fuck the pics then give back.

And before anyone freaks out ---- I'm simply talking about the consensual pics and comments here. Criminal charges and activity aren't the scope of this post, but I just don't see the point of playing into the morality police and public hysterics that some of the online idiots elsewhere on the net are going into regarding/defending the stupid WMs that decided, on their own accord, that it was a good idea to share titty&kitty pics with Lcpl dipshit from 3rd herd, and then reasonably expect that shit wasn't going to immediately be shared with every single dude in the barracks.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 7 March 2017, 16:59
Purple36's Avatar
Purple36 Purple36 is offline
Swimming Upstream
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 8,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by MixedLoad View Post
The whole sharing of nude pics etc is almost certainly based on the expectation of privacy between consenting people. I don't care what people do in their bedroom, on their phones, or what sites they peruse. While there's already some slut-shaming going on here, those female Marines almost certainly didn't go "yeah, post my naked pictures on 4chan".

The problem isn't with people's desires but with the fact that it's become cool to not give a shit about someone's privacy, and the complete lack of respect or consideration for others.

Guys are posting selfies while in firefights, for fuck's sake. What's next? Facebook Live streaming the invasion of Mosul?

It's the whole "me first" narcissism and need to be admired by others that's driving this kind of behavior. The fact that this happened in the USMC isn't telling me that the Corps has a problem, it's a glimpse of the issue we have as a society.
What you said. No respect, no honor.
__________________
- Faith involves believing in the veracity of the unprovable and unobservable, whether that consists of religion or theoretical physics, which at the very subatomic level start looking rather similar. -ET1/SS Nuke
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 7 March 2017, 17:29
WGH0922 WGH0922 is online now
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,318
When the CMC chimes in, people are going to roll. I just hope it is judicious and smokes all the offenders whether male OR female.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVkH_KAC3ug
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 7 March 2017, 17:57
Shark0311 Shark0311 is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by WGH0922 View Post
When the CMC chimes in, people are going to roll. I just hope it is judicious and smokes all the offenders whether male OR female.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVkH_KAC3ug
I hope that they start the investigation at the offenders and work their way up the chain eliminating/counseling the shit birds along the way where appropriate and maybe, just maybe these knuckleheads will learn the importance of keeping their heads down.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 7 March 2017, 19:44
RangerJurena RangerJurena is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Back In Texas
Posts: 525
@dirtydog0311

what exactly are you defending in this case?

you obviously have not read the entire case. It's a tad bit more than just some female Marine providing a selfie to your aforementioned Lcpl.

Oh and by the way.. word on the street is they were told to cease and desist and continued to march. So, fuck 'em.
__________________
2 Charlie <1>
A long time ago
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 7 March 2017, 20:43
DirtyDog0311's Avatar
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 6,082
I'm not really defending anyone. Just perplexed that there is/was this whirlwind of moral outrage seemingly directed at the notion that this type of activity is going on. And by "this type of activity" I mean the sharing of nudes between guys that get them from the girls consensually on base (or wherever). It's like no one's heard of a hog board before. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting the tea leaves.

I'm certainly not defending the criminal activity portion that is alleged to have occurred. The appropriate people can go rot in a prison cell if it's true.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 7 March 2017, 21:12
Purple36's Avatar
Purple36 Purple36 is offline
Swimming Upstream
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 8,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
I'm not really defending anyone. Just perplexed that there is/was this whirlwind of moral outrage seemingly directed at the notion that this type of activity is going on. And by "this type of activity" I mean the sharing of nudes between guys that get them from the girls consensually on base (or wherever). It's like no one's heard of a hog board before. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting the tea leaves.

I'm certainly not defending the criminal activity portion that is alleged to have occurred. The appropriate people can go rot in a prison cell if it's true.
People need to consider the honor of their unit, of their team...to have a higher standard of behavior..then "a hog board." And I extend that to the behavior of both sexes. This adventure known as service in the military is bigger than individuals and their sad proclivities. Misbehavior casts a wide net...think of the Abu Ghraib nonsense, or the ST6 men who write books because they have to have the glory...all these activities hurt the greater cause. Rise to a higher level, hold yourself and your people to a higher standard...isn't that what the Marine Corps is about? The Few, The Proud?
__________________
- Faith involves believing in the veracity of the unprovable and unobservable, whether that consists of religion or theoretical physics, which at the very subatomic level start looking rather similar. -ET1/SS Nuke
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 7 March 2017, 21:14
Spinner's Avatar
Spinner Spinner is offline
Pele's Bucket of Fire?...never heard of it
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 11,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Massgrunt View Post
Terminal Lance wasted no time, either.

http://terminallance.com/
__________________
"This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who!"
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 7 March 2017, 21:59
Jong Jong is online now
Confirmed User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Fantasy Land
Posts: 1,165
I fail to see how this is a leadership issue. I have no idea how many stupid safety briefs I have been a part of and idiots still drink and drive and do all matters of stupid shit. Maybe society is just sick! Check this disturbed shit out.
https://medium.com/@LoriHandrahan2/p...a9e#.8d8d9vuzc
__________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

Winston Churchill
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 8 March 2017, 00:28
MixedLoad's Avatar
MixedLoad MixedLoad is offline
Been There Done That
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NORCAL
Posts: 7,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jong View Post
I fail to see how this is a leadership issue. I have no idea how many stupid safety briefs I have been a part of and idiots still drink and drive and do all matters of stupid shit. Maybe society is just sick! Check this disturbed shit out.
https://medium.com/@LoriHandrahan2/p...a9e#.8d8d9vuzc
Pedophilia is its own monster. All of them should be lined up and shot.
__________________
“Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re"

"Operator much like rock and roll, is dead." - ClearedHot
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 8 March 2017, 01:17
Look. Don'tTouch. Look. Don'tTouch. is offline
killjoy
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: West
Posts: 1,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jong View Post
Maybe society is just sick! Check this disturbed shit out.
https://medium.com/@LoriHandrahan2/p...a9e#.8d8d9vuzc
Wow, that is beyond horrible.
We all know that monsters can't be cured and need deleting, but it surprises me to read how many universities and other organizations protect/retain these monsters. I don't need to ask WTF is wrong with these monsters, but I do ask WTF is wrong with all these other people that don't see them for the monsters they are and defend/protect them?

And to think that this list is only the faculty at universities, a liberal dominated field of progressive values. I assume it's more difficult to get a job at a college than it is to work at a public school(K-12), so perhaps there may be more perverts in normal teaching jobs where it's easier to get in or fall through the cracks?

That thought is scary to parents of young ones that still have their entire school future ahead of them. How do we protect our kids?
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 8 March 2017, 07:52
Purple36's Avatar
Purple36 Purple36 is offline
Swimming Upstream
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 8,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark0311 View Post
Having a class is merely an attempt at saying "oh look we did something" regardless of the effectiveness.

Leadership is accomplished by taking your subordinates in hand (maybe after you put a boot in their ass to get their attention) and setting the standard. You can't watch these guys 24/7 so you have to teach them by setting the example and earning their loyalty but it doesn't end when the workday does.

Someone failed to set the standard here and lost control of their subordinates, it's more likely that they didn't have it to begin with.
Agree with this. I work for an AF unit and fricking everything is by .PPT and online. Most of the folks can't lead their way out of a paper bag. But, I would hope the Marine Corps is different. They have a sense of duty, honor, and history or so it appears to me from those I've worked with.
__________________
- Faith involves believing in the veracity of the unprovable and unobservable, whether that consists of religion or theoretical physics, which at the very subatomic level start looking rather similar. -ET1/SS Nuke
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Our new posting rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:42.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Socnet.com All Rights Reserved
SOCNET