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  #81  
Old 8 March 2017, 07:57
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
I'm not really defending anyone. Just perplexed that there is/was this whirlwind of moral outrage seemingly directed at the notion that this type of activity is going on. And by "this type of activity" I mean the sharing of nudes between guys that get them from the girls consensually on base (or wherever). It's like no one's heard of a hog board before. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting the tea leaves.

I'm certainly not defending the criminal activity portion that is alleged to have occurred. The appropriate people can go rot in a prison cell if it's true.
It's called expecting better from people DD. About holding oneself and teammates to a higher standard. It's called looking out for one another, protecting the team, the unit, the Corps from disgrace/embarrassment. I don't know but coming from a couple of "special program" units...we were proud to do things the right way-doesn't mean we didn't have a few bad apples...but they were gotten rid of. We did'n't wink at it. Because we were part of something important and we were proud of the fact.
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  #82  
Old 8 March 2017, 11:34
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Originally Posted by billdawg24 View Post
Sweet, now imagine...it's your daughter or sister
Years ago, I told my daughter flat out that there is no such thing as "private pictures" or private anything else. ANYTHING you give to someone else or post somewhere WILL become public sooner or later. If a person willingly allowed their naked picture to be taken in this day and age, no matter how much they loved/trusted the person taking the pictures they cannot be surprised when it becomes public property.

This is already becoming a witch hunt and will no doubt be turned into another 8 hour annual PPT presentation.
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  #83  
Old 8 March 2017, 12:42
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So no shit... Several months back, a buddy of mine had a soldier in his company walking around showing dudes in his company of his sister in her lingerie and a few videos of her on a pole doing her routine. Again in lingerie. This guy is a fucking little werido but joes were all "fuck yeah she she hot"
Plot twist is, the soldier with the photos and video doesn't have a sister. They were of him, in drag. He's an open homosexual who, up until that point was not a known cross dresser. He wanted to get dudes to compliment his "feminine side" and even got some wanting to call his "sister" for dates, which is when he told them the photos were of him. Much aggression later, things calmed down.

This "psyop" of his went down over a two day drill. How can leadership combat this? I post this here because the speed at which shit like this can go down is mind blowning. Think about the headlines of an openly gay soldier getting his ass kicked by several other. Wouldn't matter why, they'd be Homophobes
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  #84  
Old 8 March 2017, 12:56
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Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Years ago, I told my daughter flat out that there is no such thing as "private pictures" or private anything else. ANYTHING you give to someone else or post somewhere WILL become public sooner or later. If a person willingly allowed their naked picture to be taken in this day and age, no matter how much they loved/trusted the person taking the pictures they cannot be surprised when it becomes public property.

This is already becoming a witch hunt and will no doubt be turned into another 8 hour annual PPT presentation.
100%.
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  #85  
Old 8 March 2017, 13:11
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Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
It's called expecting better from people DD. About holding oneself and teammates to a higher standard. It's called looking out for one another, protecting the team, the unit, the Corps from disgrace/embarrassment. I don't know but coming from a couple of "special program" units...we were proud to do things the right way-doesn't mean we didn't have a few bad apples...but they were gotten rid of. We did'n't wink at it. Because we were part of something important and we were proud of the fact.


I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, but I, and many others on here, can tell you that when I was at 3/75 as a young soldier if we weren't working, our only three concerns in life were drinking, fighting and fucking. Mostly drinking and fighting, but not by choice. (We all blamed it on the haircuts rather than a lack of game.) It was not only accepted, it was encouraged. The only exception was drinking and driving, which was a quick ticket out of the unit. Bar fights were fine as long as you won and didn't get caught. If you won and you were caught, you could expect to be road marching with your chain of command or maybe a company grade Article 15. If you lost a fight in town, pack your shit. We had strippers on stage in the NCO club. Hell we had women in the barracks on weekends that ranged from the daughters of high ranking Officers on post to strippers from victory drive. The only reason we didn't have shit like this is because the technology didn't exist at the time.

Does that make it right? No. But you also have to take into consideration maturity levels and the culture that is just inherent inside Infantry units. That culture is a very large part of the team building and camaraderie that takes a bunch of pimple faced teenage and early 20's boys and turns them into aggressive, efficient, killers. We can deny that all we want, but it's been that way since there was war. If you take that culture away and replace it with a "Professional" or PC culture, you lessen the lethality of the unit.

When those same kids get a few years on them they tend to grow out of it and either get out or move into those more "Professional" units like SF/CAG etc and become more of the type of soldier that you are more familiar with who doesn't tend to do stupid shit nearly as often or as spectacularly.

Again, I'm not saying it's right. But it's also not completely unexpected.
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  #86  
Old 8 March 2017, 13:37
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Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Years ago, I told my daughter flat out that there is no such thing as "private pictures" or private anything else. ANYTHING you give to someone else or post somewhere WILL become public sooner or later. If a person willingly allowed their naked picture to be taken in this day and age, no matter how much they loved/trusted the person taking the pictures they cannot be surprised when it becomes public property.

This is already becoming a witch hunt and will no doubt be turned into another 8 hour annual PPT presentation.
Not be surprised? Sure. I'll buy that.

But anyone posting photos of someone else online without their permission should also not be surprised when they end up thrown off a bridge in the middle of the night - which is the least of what would happen to you if my daughter came to me and said that some ex posted photos she allowed to be taken in confidence.
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  #87  
Old 8 March 2017, 15:14
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Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, but I, and many others on here, can tell you that when I was at 3/75 as a young soldier if we weren't working, our only three concerns in life were drinking, fighting and fucking. Mostly drinking and fighting, but not by choice. (We all blamed it on the haircuts rather than a lack of game.) It was not only accepted, it was encouraged. The only exception was drinking and driving, which was a quick ticket out of the unit. Bar fights were fine as long as you won and didn't get caught. If you won and you were caught, you could expect to be road marching with your chain of command or maybe a company grade Article 15. If you lost a fight in town, pack your shit. We had strippers on stage in the NCO club. Hell we had women in the barracks on weekends that ranged from the daughters of high ranking Officers on post to strippers from victory drive. The only reason we didn't have shit like this is because the technology didn't exist at the time.

Does that make it right? No. But you also have to take into consideration maturity levels and the culture that is just inherent inside Infantry units. That culture is a very large part of the team building and camaraderie that takes a bunch of pimple faced teenage and early 20's boys and turns them into aggressive, efficient, killers. We can deny that all we want, but it's been that way since there was war. If you take that culture away and replace it with a "Professional" or PC culture, you lessen the lethality of the unit.

When those same kids get a few years on them they tend to grow out of it and either get out or move into those more "Professional" units like SF/CAG etc and become more of the type of soldier that you are more familiar with who doesn't tend to do stupid shit nearly as often or as spectacularly.

Again, I'm not saying it's right. But it's also not completely unexpected.
I hear you and I understand that. I also see things a bit differently with activities outside the unit (ala strippers) vs inside the unit.

Since we are now "inclusive" what would be the sentiment if it were discovered that those photos were of naked fellow males Marines? A quick search of Craigslist personal and missed connections shows quite a bit of the gay in the Army here.
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  #88  
Old 8 March 2017, 15:21
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What went down was wrong.

If it's a bunch of raging hormone E2's in an Infantry unit passing around beaver hunt polaroids it's one thing. Apparently this goes much deeper than that. I know rank/maturity shouldn't matter, but there comes a time in a career when you KNOW if you participate in something it's going to bite your ass big time. Privates will be privates and should be punished accordingly. When O's and SNCO's get caught in this kind if shit they should get the full on shithammer.
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  #89  
Old 8 March 2017, 16:01
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I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, but I, and many others on here, can tell you that when I was at 3/75 as a young soldier if we weren't working, our only three concerns in life were drinking, fighting and fucking. Mostly drinking and fighting, but not by choice. (We all blamed it on the haircuts rather than a lack of game.) It was not only accepted, it was encouraged. The only exception was drinking and driving, which was a quick ticket out of the unit. Bar fights were fine as long as you won and didn't get caught. If you won and you were caught, you could expect to be road marching with your chain of command or maybe a company grade Article 15. If you lost a fight in town, pack your shit. We had strippers on stage in the NCO club. Hell we had women in the barracks on weekends that ranged from the daughters of high ranking Officers on post to strippers from victory drive. The only reason we didn't have shit like this is because the technology didn't exist at the time.

Does that make it right? No. But you also have to take into consideration maturity levels and the culture that is just inherent inside Infantry units. That culture is a very large part of the team building and camaraderie that takes a bunch of pimple faced teenage and early 20's boys and turns them into aggressive, efficient, killers. We can deny that all we want, but it's been that way since there was war. If you take that culture away and replace it with a "Professional" or PC culture, you lessen the lethality of the unit.

When those same kids get a few years on them they tend to grow out of it and either get out or move into those more "Professional" units like SF/CAG etc and become more of the type of soldier that you are more familiar with who doesn't tend to do stupid shit nearly as often or as spectacularly.

Again, I'm not saying it's right. But it's also not completely unexpected.
That is 100% on point. The photo sharing thing is now akin to the DUI or losing a fight....quick ticket either out of the unit (in SOF units cases) or out of the Service for the regular units.
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  #90  
Old 8 March 2017, 17:22
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Originally Posted by Purple36 View Post
Since we are now "inclusive" what would be the sentiment if it were discovered that those photos were of naked fellow males Marines? A quick search of Craigslist personal and missed connections shows quite a bit of the gay in the Army here.

I couldn't tell you about what would happen today, but I can tell you that back then (IMO) they would have been immediately removed from the unit for their own safety. "Inclusive" back then did not exist. It would have been like that "Code Red" thing from that Jack Nicholson movie. There was a lot of shit that you could do and get away with. Sometimes it might mean getting smoked or a roadmarch. Sometimes it might mean a trip to the woodline and an asswhipping. But then it was over and back to work. But getting caught being a homosexual back then, in that unit? At best it would have meant an ambulance ride.

I only know of one guy that was ever caught, but he had already left the unit. He was well known, a RIP Instructor, great reputation. Now he is only known for being a homosexual.
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Old 8 March 2017, 17:25
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We now have gay servicemen and women openly married. I have two that I know of in my unit. Both male and female. I guess my point is that some folks seem to Pooh Pooh this because the "victims" are women, as if that is ok...which is why I was putting forth an "alternative" paradigm. What if you (a generalized you- directed to the male populace) learned there was a widespread sharing of naked photos of you and some of your teammates on a website akin to this? Photos that you did not willingly offer up...maybe taken surreptitiously and unknowingly. Would you feel humiliated, betrayed...would it affect your team cohesion, your morale, etc? Would it detract from the unit's effectiveness perhaps, and lessen trust?
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  #92  
Old 8 March 2017, 17:43
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Originally Posted by Gsniper View Post
What went down was wrong.

If it's a bunch of raging hormone E2's in an Infantry unit passing around beaver hunt polaroids it's one thing. Apparently this goes much deeper than that. I know rank/maturity shouldn't matter, but there comes a time in a career when you KNOW if you participate in something it's going to bite your ass big time. Privates will be privates and should be punished accordingly. When O's and SNCO's get caught in this kind if shit they should get the full on shithammer.
To your point and since some folks clearly haven't read this:


Hundreds of Marines are reportedly under investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, after a trove of photographs were shared online that show female service members and veterans in the nude. The images were spread via a closed Facebook group with thousands of members.

When the photos were shared via Marines United a Facebook group that's intended for male Marines and Marine veterans only they drew bawdy and obscene comments, according to two nonprofit news sites: the War Horse and the Center for Investigative Reporting.

According to War Horse founder Thomas James Brennan, many of the photos on the Marines United page included personal information about the female service members, from their name, rank and duty station to the names of their social media accounts.

The Facebook page also included links to a Google Drive with even more images and an invitation to any members to contribute photos. The images were obtained in a variety of ways, Brennan reports, from sharing by former partners to stalking and, potentially, the hacking of service members' personal accounts.

Almost immediately after the War Horse contacted the Marine Corps about the images in late January, the service asked Google and Facebook to delete accounts linked to the material, and an NCIS inquiry was begun, Brennan writes. But he adds that more nude photos soon appeared on the Marines United page.

"This behavior destroys morale, erodes trust and degrades the individual," the Marine Corps says in a statement about what it calls "social media misconduct." The service says those involved could face charges based on at two portions of the Uniform Code of Military Justice one that involves consent and an expectation of privacy, and another that centers on distributing indecent material.

"A Marine who directly participates in, encourages, or condones such actions could also be subjected to criminal proceedings or adverse administrative actions," the Marine Corps says.

At least two people have already been punished, according to Brennan: a Marine veteran who worked as a government subcontractor was fired after being the first to post a Google Drive link to the photos; and a service member was fired for secretly taking photos of a woman who was picking up gear at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina.

"He was standing close enough to smell my perfume," that Marine tells Brennan. She added, "This is going to follow me just like he did."

There's also been backlash against Brennan, according to Marine Corps Times:

"The news report was authored by Thomas Brennan, an Iraq and Afghanistan combat veteran and Purple Heart recipient who founded The War Horse in 2016. The nonprofit news site focuses on military and veterans affairs, and tales of combat heroism.
"After its publication, several members of the Facebook group lashed out at Brennan, making threats against him and his family."
The revelation that hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of female service members have been targeted by their fellow Marines has set off intense reactions from members of the military service that often touts its motto: Semper Fidelis "Always Faithful."

Here's one reaction to the Marine Corps' statement on its Facebook page, from a female captain:

"What bothers me more than the actions of these few and the inaction of their small-unit leaders is the number of commenters here and other places justifying the FB page. These are weak, leaderless men, probably low performers afraid of being outpaced, denigrating women in order to feel superior. And doing it online with Internet bravado. Pathetic. Some of them may be teachable, will learn from this, and grow up to be worthy of the title, but they're not there yet."

What she said. Pathetic and not worthy of being Marines.
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  #93  
Old 8 March 2017, 17:52
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Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Years ago, I told my daughter flat out that there is no such thing as "private pictures" or private anything else. ANYTHING you give to someone else or post somewhere WILL become public sooner or later. If a person willingly allowed their naked picture to be taken in this day and age, no matter how much they loved/trusted the person taking the pictures they cannot be surprised when it becomes public property.
This. X1000. Does not justify at all what happened, but, you gave great advice. Have said the same things to my nieces and nephews and many other young people I mentor.
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Old 8 March 2017, 18:02
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Originally Posted by Gray Rhyno View Post
Years ago, I told my daughter flat out that there is no such thing as "private pictures" or private anything else. ANYTHING you give to someone else or post somewhere WILL become public sooner or later. If a person willingly allowed their naked picture to be taken in this day and age, no matter how much they loved/trusted the person taking the pictures they cannot be surprised when it becomes public property.

x100 told my daughter too, 21, what you do in life will echo in eternity, canon fodder will be stoopid x 1000, I know and was, but now there are digital cameras "smart" (read stoopid phones) jeez if they were around in the mid eighties.....I dread to think. Educate your kids, daughters and sons, you can fuck up your whole life now with a stupid post, it will never go away, be brave, say NO and stand up for yourself, prolly the only advice my wee girl has listened to.
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Old 8 March 2017, 18:14
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Many states have "revenge porn" laws that these Marines could find out about (the hard way).

It was stupid, and those Marines who get caught will see their Military careers, GS careers and contracting opportunities go down in flames.

Maybe people will send fewer selfies as a result, but I doubt it.
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Old 8 March 2017, 18:36
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Many states have "revenge porn" laws that these Marines could find out about (the hard way).

It was stupid, and those Marines who get caught will see their Military careers, GS careers and contracting opportunities go down in flames.

Maybe people will send fewer selfies as a result, but I doubt it.
Did not stop a Congressman from continuing to do so, even after he had bad political fallout.
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Old 8 March 2017, 18:53
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I guess my point is that some folks seem to Pooh Pooh this because the "victims" are women, as if that is ok...
Can you provide examples of posts here that seemed (to you) to present the above view? Because I didn't get that from any of the posts in this thread. I think several of us, myself included, have posted a "if you don't take naked pictures then they can't be shared" philosophy, but I don't read anyone's posts as supportive of this behavior because the pictures being posted are of women. If anything, I would be ridiculing men that allowed themselves to get into this position.

I think it's abhorrent that pictures taken in confidence were posted in public this way, and if pictures were taken against the subject's wishes or without their knowledge, that is both criminal and unethical. But I still stand by my view of "if you don't allow anyone to take naked pictures of you, then those pictures can't be made public" view. I'm not blaming the victim, just stating my opinion. Allowing ANYONE to take naked pictures of you is just plain stupid.
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Old 8 March 2017, 20:30
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I had a discussion on FB with a Marine wife and mom.

I made the point that if the "don't allow pictures" idea was taken to an extreme, we could say "don't buy nice things, because that way they can't be stolen from you."

I said,
Quote:
"This was Marines doing this to other Marines. That's disgusting to me and flies in the face of all the crap Marines spout about how special the Globe and Anchor are, and how people who wear it are supposed to be better than others. If they'll treat their own like this, how will they treat other people?"
Her son (AD Marine) didn't take that well. He basically justified the one case we were discussing because the female was "a known whore" who was dismissed for other sexual improprieties.
Quote:
I'm going to stop this right here. Here is the real facts about this whole bullshit scandal. The girl in the article is a known whore and was kicked out of the USMC for trying to use sexual favors to further her promotion. Her ex bf posted her nudes and the sex tape in retaliation when he found out that she was fucking everything under the sun. Does this make his actions just? No, but I'll take his action anyway over her actions of being a unfaithful whore. Just because we have US Marines on our chest doesn't make us special or immune to human error. That is a stupid and ignorant statement to assume that just because someone is in the USMC that they do not make mistakes. People who do not known the real meaning of US Marine need to keep their mouths shut. Also the media is very biased and doesn't show the other side of this story where the USMC is now investigating an all female service member FB group where they shares male dick pics. Also which this girl in the article is apart of. Also this isn't an all USMC mistake, it's a whole military deal. The USMC is the only one who is getting highlighted on it because we are the only ones actively trying to fix it.
The people who did and are doing this are not worthy of the title of "Marine."

I'm naive or old-fashioned enough to think words like Duty Honor Country" still mean things. There's a difference between understanding why someone did something and justifying. Justifying something excuses and condones it. There is no honor in what's been done here, because we all know this one woman doesn't represent all the women involved in this.
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  #99  
Old 8 March 2017, 20:33
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Many states have "revenge porn" laws that these Marines could find out about (the hard way).

It was stupid, and those Marines who get caught will see their Military careers, GS careers and contracting opportunities go down in flames.

Maybe people will send fewer selfies as a result, but I doubt it.
PA has a new law which punishes people who disseminate nude or sexual pictures without consent: intent is a major element of the crime. I'm not sure whether a conviction gets you on the sexual offenders list but I wouldn't be surprised if it does as it is considered a sexual offense. I'm sure many states have or will have similar laws as this technology evolves. Below is the statute...scroll down to section 3131 for details.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...18/00.031..HTM

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Old 8 March 2017, 20:59
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Can you provide examples of posts here that seemed (to you) to present the above view? Because I didn't get that from any of the posts in this thread. I think several of us, myself included, have posted a "if you don't take naked pictures then they can't be shared" philosophy, but I don't read anyone's posts as supportive of this behavior because the pictures being posted are of women. If anything, I would be ridiculing men that allowed themselves to get into this position.

I think it's abhorrent that pictures taken in confidence were posted in public this way, and if pictures were taken against the subject's wishes or without their knowledge, that is both criminal and unethical. But I still stand by my view of "if you don't allow anyone to take naked pictures of you, then those pictures can't be made public" view. I'm not blaming the victim, just stating my opinion. Allowing ANYONE to take naked pictures of you is just plain stupid.
No, I'm not going to go through every post to pull out examples. One person was banned and the other I have replied to. I have stated what I have stated. I agree that taking nude photos is stupid; however, if you will read the reporting, many were taken in confidence and more were taken unawares. Just because you allow your BF to take your photo does not mean he is justified to put them on this website. This is about the Corps, not the individual. This is not about the "victims" it is about the perpertators.
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