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  #21  
Old 13 March 2017, 19:36
8654maine 8654maine is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Oh I agree, but I think the argument is circular in that regard. Who benefits first --- the idiots we are importing wholesale because of the false canard "we can't find qualified workers", or our own "idiots" purposefully dumbed-down by lack of standards --- and who don't have to perform because of the litany of welfare and other social programs making it "easy" to be poor? It's a chicken and egg question in my mind.
Yes, it is a vicious cycle.
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  #22  
Old 13 March 2017, 19:46
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EchoFiveMike EchoFiveMike is offline
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Originally Posted by 8654maine View Post
Disagree with the bold.

It is the native-born stupidity that is the driving the engine. From apologists to the willfully ignorant, it is our citizenry that is allowing this to happen.

Blaming it on foreigners is too narrow a scope.
Sorta agree, the foreigners are mostly parasites, just doing what they do on a subconscious level. They're effectively human locusts, instinctively seeking the free shit. Even when they legitimately seek "economic opportunity", it comes at the expense of actual Americans. Who is supposed to benefit from America?

It isn't the stupid people making the decisions. The stupid cattle, the "useful idiots," are yes, stupid. But the people actively pushing this shit are not stupid; they're evil. And they're not Americans, they're just outsiders residing in America, parasitizing actual Americans. Rootless globalist exploiters.

It's a damn shame, but absolutely true, that Haitians in Haiti are just as biologically stupid as Haitians in America. There's no magic dirt; nothing in America changes the basic biological material. That's universal, from Australia to Zimbabwe.

Yes, you have to do basic statistical process, like accounting for the fact that the Haitians in America don't eat dirt cookies, like they do in Haiti. But this is because they're collecting "Free Shit" paid for by American taxpayers. So yeah, Haitians in America are maybe a couple IQ points higher because they don't have (such significant) malnutrition. So what, 81 vs 78 IQ average is still overwhelmingly worthless for a modern nation. Absent genetic engineering, which is still science fiction, this is insurmountable.

Yes, a certain top percentage of any nation is better, statistically, than the average pre-1965 American, but we're not selecting for that. We're bringing them in because of weaponized compassion; the soft American voter (mostly women) being manipulated by their emotions. So that progressives have more useful cattle votes and the Monty Burns/Ebeneezer Scrooge GOP assholes can have lower wages. Rootless globalist assholes biologically strip mining America.

And normies have finally had this shoved in their faces so much that you have politicians from Nowheresville Iowa essentially tweeting "the 14 words" of white nationalism.

http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-med...1489370065.jpg

This is going to get awesomely bad before it gets better, if ever. S/F....Ken M

Oh yes, it's deliberate that even the top tiers of genetic potential in any group, save the globalists, are kept ignorant via indoctrination/lack of education. It's TFG's "dignity manipulation" strategy. Stupid people are not a true threat to the rootless globalists. Shithead riots burn down their own hoods and stress the middle class normies; the globalists are systemically protected. It will take real organization, only possible via a nation-state, to burn them out.
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Last edited by EchoFiveMike; 13 March 2017 at 19:51.
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  #23  
Old 13 March 2017, 20:00
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DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by EchoFiveMike View Post
It will take real organization, only possible via a nation-state, to burn them out.
Which is why the rootless globalists are so absolutely hell-bent on keeping control of the narrative through the media/education/and political correctness. If you have people "waking up" to what's being done, they will vote against it. So they attempt to make Feels = reals. Pic related.
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  #24  
Old 13 March 2017, 20:17
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We will be become, or maybe we are already there, where our only contributions to the world, the only things we are good at, is being the "Entertainers" and the "Mercenaries" of the world.
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  #25  
Old 13 March 2017, 20:35
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Originally Posted by Bravo Five Romeo View Post
The original AP article goes into problems with the test, beyond the racial complaints that make up the first couple of paragraphs.
In the article, supporters, even conservative supporters, of the new testing standards for teacher applicants complain that the one literacy test (one of many tests applicants take) is flawed.

Some complaints are that it is redundant, forcing applicants to pay an additional fee for a test with materials already covered in other tests... other complaints are about the format of the test, on the computer instead of on paper being confusing to follow or that some of the multiple choice questions are worded poorly, allowing for more than one answer to technically be correct



From the AP article....
********************
Several education professors told The Associated Press the test doesn't measure anything that isn't covered in other exams students must take, including subject matter certification tests, the SAT, the GRE and tests that are part of their coursework. Also, they said the test's $131 price tag is too steep.

Michael Middleton, dean of the Hunter College School of Education in Manhattan, said that of the battery of assessments, "It's the one that looks like it's the least related to the actual work that teachers do day to day."

Charles Sahm, the director of education policy at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think tank, is a strong supporter of raising the bar for teachers but not a fan of this particular literacy test.

Sahm took the $20 practice exam and thought it was a poorly designed test with multiple-choice questions that seemed to have more than one correct answer.

"I do agree that it's not a great test," Sahm said. "I found the reading comprehension section to be kind of infuriating. I only got 21 out of 40 right."
********************
So if its not great, its just as "not great" for everyone, right?

This is a quote from one of the teachers responding to the article.

"Everyone wants equality until there is a standard to achieve".

Read the comments by teachers and what they think of it as opposed to a bunch of liberal academics who get buckets of cash for admitting minorities into their institutions.

This is the whole reason behind the great liberal gnashing of teeth. Fear that Trump will hold them accountable. Fear that they can no longer be treated like royalty despite a painfully lackluster record of accomplishment. I finally got a trophy and now I may have to give it back.
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  #26  
Old 13 March 2017, 21:01
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hawkdrver hawkdrver is offline
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Originally Posted by X-rgr View Post
I had an (American) working for me, who had lived in Sweden for several years. When he got there, he went to the local gov't office that finds you jobs. They made him a teacher in the national school system. He didn't speak Swedish (or whatever the language is), and wasn't teaching English. He read newspapers in the teachers' lounge all day until his shift was up.
Are they hiring?
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  #27  
Old 13 March 2017, 21:24
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Smh...more pathetic excuses from the liberal/ed crazies. It's amazing how people think this way in relation to problems of diversity in school, careers, etc.

But I would say, these policy makers are also doing this for another reason. Baby boomer teacher's are retiring, genX folks are switching occupations, and for the rest (not all) like millennials, teaching is not cool to them or they just lack the desire to help and inspire others. Ask any young kid today (especially in big cities) what they want to be when they grow up, you would be hard pressed to find many saying teaching. Many states have teacher shortages, and the pipeline for new teachers has dropped 30-50% over the last few years. Many new ones who come leave. There was even a study saying that 50% of new teachers leave within 5 years, and other decent numbers for years 1-4. So the good news is that the indoctrinator's are leaving. But the bad news is there are no good teachers to replace them--except for the type of folks that are mentioned in the article.
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  #28  
Old 13 March 2017, 21:49
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ET1/ss nuke ET1/ss nuke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leopardprey View Post
Some sad stats. Why we are losing. What happened to America? We use to be the envy of the world. Not anymore.

https://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/category/education/
Part of the problem is unfair comparison. The USA attempts to educate all children even if they suffer from severe mental retardation, head trauma, or other developmental issues. Many foreign countries do not attempt to educate handicapped children or simply do not test handicapped students with the tests used to compare large groups or nationalities to one another. Our complete spectrum of students ends up being compared to only the best of other countries' kids, producing the sometimes-false narrative that American kids are dumb, but whether those kids are dumb or not the American school administrators are apparently not smart enough to stop themselves from basing their own national education statistics upon inherently flawed data.

America has no shortage of adult morons, and apples don't fall far from trees.
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  #29  
Old 13 March 2017, 21:55
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The literacy test which was introduced in the 2013-2014 school year was part of an effort to raise the quality of teaching in New York and to weed out inferior students.
So what, if anything, was done before this test to assess teacher literacy? I'd like to see the test to gauge what all the fuss is about...though I wouldn't be surprised if it was a solution in search of a problem from the start since it's less than five years old.
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  #30  
Old 13 March 2017, 22:02
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Originally Posted by btq96r View Post
So what, if anything, was done before this test to assess teacher literacy?
I'd assume it was the job interview conducted by people with at least a shred of common sense left. Along with the fact that teaching certificates usually require some form of higher education and tests usually in English. Because, ya know, that's what most kids speak.

Then I'm sure some shitlib came along one day with this brilliant shower-thought of not requiring any standards at all......and passed it along to the other SJWs infesting the administration and 'viola', you have this thread.
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  #31  
Old 13 March 2017, 22:35
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grog18b grog18b is offline
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Que Monte Python sketch of dude beating his head with two bricks...

Spanish teacher in Arizona (I believe) had her class stand, and recite the Mexican Pledge of Allegiance, and sing the Mexican National Anthem. In her opinion, it was somehow teaching her students "culture".

My ass.

I don't believe that word means what she thinks it means.
cul∑ture/ˈkəlCHər/
noun
1.the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

Having children recite a pledge of allegiance of another nation, and sing their national anthem, well, is treason or sedition in my book.
trea∑son/ˈtrēzən/
noun
the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.
se∑di∑tion/səˈdiSH(ə)n/
noun
conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch.

Not wanting or being able to speak the language of the nation you are a supposed citizen of, indicates your unwillingness to assimilate to the "culture" and be a productive member of its society.

I have no idea what sort of "teacher" would be required to teach a subject in their native language, and not have at least a working understanding of the language of the students, unless those students are also not English speakers.
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  #32  
Old 13 March 2017, 22:43
Instruct1 Instruct1 is offline
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Originally Posted by btq96r View Post
So what, if anything, was done before this test to assess teacher literacy? I'd like to see the test to gauge what all the fuss is about...though I wouldn't be surprised if it was a solution in search of a problem from the start since it's less than five years old.
Majority of "standard" K-12 teaching positions require a 4 year degree and a state issued teaching credential. The literacy issue should be solved during this time, however there are often too many shenanigans happening during college courses and credential programs.
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  #33  
Old 13 March 2017, 23:09
Shark0311 Shark0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
I'd assume it was the job interview conducted by people with at least a shred of common sense left. Along with the fact that teaching certificates usually require some form of higher education and tests usually in English. Because, ya know, that's what most kids speak.

Then I'm sure some shitlib came along one day with this brilliant shower-thought of not requiring any standards at all......and passed it along to the other SJWs infesting the administration and 'viola', you have this thread.
I had to institute aptitude testing at work due to a bad hire with two masters degrees that could barely write a complete sentence. Since then we have separated the wheat from the chaff. I'm still amused by people that claim to be a 9/10 on Excel and score in the 5th percentile.
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  #34  
Old 14 March 2017, 00:03
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Next thing you know, they are going to drop the standards for Ranger school to allow women to pass without making it look like they are....oh, wait....
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  #35  
Old 14 March 2017, 08:36
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I'm looking at the AP article and a few of things stick out to me:

The ethnic issue is a red herring. That's just another pathetic attempt to justify double standards. I'm an old, male, white, anglo-saxon-viking, protestant, deplorable, infidel redneck. If I failed that test, too bad. No job for me. However, if I was a 20-ish, female, black, jewish, gay, one-legged imam, they'd waiver the test and send me through.

'Nuff said on that crap.

Can anyone demonstrate test results that do NOT have disproportionate results by ethnicity?

I understand the intent of the test, but the execution failed expectations. What should have happened was a trial run that gathered statistics related to demographics and the work environment. Then interview the test subjects to see what worked and didn't work.

I find the last section pretty telling:

Quote:
...Michael Middleton, dean of the Hunter College School of Education in Manhattan, said that of the battery of assessments, "It's the one that looks like it's the least related to the actual work that teachers do day to day."

Charles Sahm, the director of education policy at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think tank, is a strong supporter of raising the bar for teachers but not a fan of this particular literacy test. Sahm took the $20 practice exam and thought it was a poorly designed test with multiple-choice questions that seemed to have more than one correct answer.

"I do agree that it's not a great test," Sahm said. "I found the reading comprehension section to be kind of infuriating. I only got 21 out of 40 right."
I do know something about strange tests: try the CISSP some time. I was the only person in a 100+ organiztion that passed it the first time. The average was four re-tests; and it was a required certification.

To this day, I couldn't pass the English portion of an SAT test if my life depended on it. I maxed out the ACT tests when I was kid. I also have dual majors for my undergraduate degree, and two graduate degrees. All of which are hard sciences. I also worked as a scientist for the USG.

When I was in the Q-Course, there was one patrolling instructor that failed everyone in his student detachment; for multiple consecutive classes. It wasn't until someone in the HQ started looking at the numbers that they had a talk with him. That 'talk' resulted in him reporting to the Recondo school at Bragg, where he promptly started failing every student again. Fortunately, that MFer had the good grace to kill himself a few years later.

It's amazing how bad things can get with one test, or one person, in a decision cycle.
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  #36  
Old 14 March 2017, 18:02
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They tried a basic education test in the late 90s in central Alabama but it got shot down from teachers from one college. The states argument was a lot of degrees have an exit exam or a license exam. Their argument was shot down because the teachers do not need a license to teach.
From some of the stuff my kids brought home from the school system I can understand why they refused to take the test. We had one teacher that marked thing wrong because of phonics, not actual spelling.
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  #37  
Old 14 March 2017, 19:23
Azatty Azatty is offline
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You all are looking at it wrong. No big surprise given that you're cisgendered person of privilege. The correct way to view it is this: teachers are not supposed to be subject matter experts. They are simply proctors of information provided to them by other who know better.

Here's what I figured out about common core this year through observation: the system is rigged to produce higher grades irrespective of a student's comprehension. Case in point: one of my kids is lazy about turning in homework, but aces every test. But if he misses a couple homework assignments, it will drop him a full grade. Doesn't even matter that the homework answers were right or wrong--turning it in gets the credit. A kid can bomb every test, but get a "C" grade if incorrectly-completed homework is turned in. So
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  #38  
Old 15 March 2017, 02:23
Instruct1 Instruct1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Azatty View Post
They are simply proctors of information provided to them by other who know better.
And there it is...the cold hard truth-- in an age where we are trying to prepare learners for advanced careers. What can go wrong?
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  #39  
Old 15 March 2017, 05:17
Paul85 Paul85 is offline
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As a son of two qualified teachers I often take a peek at discussions about education snd school systems.

Two things came to my mind after reading that article:

1) Somebody forgot that teachers should teach, not engage in weird politically correct ideas.

2) You can pull any kind of s... off nowadays if you use "diversity" "equality" and "gender" as your shield and banner.

Teachers, please. Get your heads back on your shoulders. Stop fearing that political correctness BS and that it might wreck your career. Just do your jobs.
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  #40  
Old 15 March 2017, 06:50
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ET1/ss nuke ET1/ss nuke is offline
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Originally Posted by pavegnr View Post
They tried a basic education test in the late 90s in central Alabama but it got shot down from teachers from one college. The states argument was a lot of degrees have an exit exam or a license exam. Their argument was shot down because the teachers do not need a license to teach.
From some of the stuff my kids brought home from the school system I can understand why they refused to take the test. We had one teacher that marked thing wrong because of phonics, not actual spelling.
I don't know about Alabama, but in SC I have to hold and maintain a license to teach that must be renewed every 5 years. Renewal requires taking and passing a bunch of courses over those 5 years, most of which must be paid for out of my own pocket with no additional pay to account for that. It's just a cost of doing business. Still, though, we have some teachers that are subject matter experts but can't teach, some that are morons, a few good teachers who are lousy human beings, and a core of good teachers who are smart and decent. The core tend to watch the others who outnumber them come and go every few years. Sometimes a kid wins the lottery and gets all good teachers. Most aren't that lucky.
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