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Old 9 May 2008, 14:53
Tenn-RGR Tenn-RGR is offline
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SOTACC

Do we have any SOTACC grads lurking around in here? Im interested in seeing how many grads we have on SOCnet and how many of you guys are still a current JTAC.
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  #2  
Old 9 May 2008, 15:11
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How are the classes set up for walk on's? I heard of some guys doing the walk ons.
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Old 9 May 2008, 15:17
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Originally Posted by 18C4V View Post
How are the classes set up for walk on's? I heard of some guys doing the walk ons.
Walk-ons happen every class. The cap right now is 16 studs, but 18 has been the norm for awhile. The 2 additional studs are usually Marines or other Bco cadre working at the MFFPC getting ready to head back to a team.
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Old 31 January 2009, 01:28
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New SOTACC more challenging course

http://www.soc.mil/swcs/swmag/Page1.htm
The following was cut from the above link. Click on the .pdf version of the magazine and the article can be found on page 36.

In October, the Special Operations Terminal Attack Controller Course, or SOTACC, evolved into a more challenging program designed to improve the coordination of close air support, or CAS, in the ground-combat
maneuver plan. Special-operations Soldiers now attend a four-week course that places more emphasis on planning and air-support integration to provide the ground commander with increased joint interoperability.
In addition to fixed-wing sorties, the qualification process of the new SOTACC includes live rotary-wing call-for-fire. The student must also now integrate CAS missions with surface-based fires and plan, request and integrate illumination in support of CAS operations using fixed and
rotary-wing aircraft.
The course also integrates the employment of unmanned aerial systems and remotely operated video enhanced receivers to augment day and night CAS operations. Their addition to the curriculum will teach students to perform target acquisition via a remote observer platform, integrating real-time sensor information into the air-support plan.
The design of the new SOTACC also ensures graduates’ interoperability with joint terminal attack controllers throughout the Department of Defense.

The only real change to the course is an additional week (4th Week), ROVER work, more controls, and some targeting software.
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Old 22 October 2009, 18:49
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Air Force becomes newest YPG tenant

Just an update on SOTACC. The school is now officially under AFSOC control, its been in the works for quite awhile now. It happened July. Good deal!!

http://www.yumasun.com/news/air-51331-army-force.html

YUMA PROVING GROUND - A large group gathered in a hangar located at the Laguna Army Airfield here on Wednesday to witness the formal transfer of the Special Operations Terminal Attack Control Course (SOTACC) from the managerial authority of the Army to the Air Force.

Maj. James Gary Alexander, Air Force Special Operations Command, Special Tactics Training Squadron at Hurlburt Field, Fla., officially assumed responsibility as detachment commander of SOTACC at the beginning of this month.

"At this school we teach the fundamentals of close air support, which involves a person on the ground communicating directly with an aircraft, capable of delivering heavy ordnance in order to deter, destroy or delay an enemy," said Alexander.

The importance of this school, Alexander said, can be seen in the current conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq and other areas, where ground controllers are on duty now.

The Air Force major went on to say that American military personnel overseas rely heavily on deployment of weapons in order to destroy enemy targets and it takes excellent air-to-ground communication to make it happen.

Alexander currently oversees six personnel, including one civilian, one non-commissioned officer in charge and four instructors.

"We have military students who come to YPG from all over the world to attend this course, including friendly nations," said Alexander. "The decision was made to keep the school at Yuma Proving Ground because of the great training opportunities offered here, such as the excellent weather, desert environment, uncrowded airspace and top-notch range facilities."

SOTACC was established in 2003 under the command of the U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School due to the need of a Joint Terminal Attack Controller Course (JTAC).

SOTACC offers six courses per year with 15 students per class. Students are special operations personnel from the Army, Air Force and Marine Corps.
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Old 28 October 2009, 16:56
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So i'm guessing that SOTACC is the graduate level of AGOS?

When I went in 93 at Hurlburt, you had to 'know' Army, NAvy/USMC, and Air Force a/c and loads to include fuzing.

The additions I'm seeing is the UAV and robot stuff...
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Old 28 October 2009, 20:59
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So i'm guessing that SOTACC is the graduate level of AGOS?
Not really grad-level. When you went through AGOS/JFCC, I am guessing you didn't get your SOTAC card. I went through in '92 and it was JFCC, didn't get any CAS calls, and had to return to my unit for the required number of CAS iterations and an evaluation/examination by a certified SOTAC (the JTAC moniker wasn't invented yet).

The new SOTACC gives you the whole enchilada. AFSOC is currently working on a grad-level course, but it will be at Nellis AFB (years from now).
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Old 29 October 2009, 02:05
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How many live controls do the studs graduate with from the SOTAC course? Is it more than the standard JTAC course?
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Old 29 October 2009, 07:46
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How many live controls do the studs graduate with from the SOTAC course? Is it more than the standard JTAC course?
It depended on the airflow when I was there, but the norm was 12 before AFSOC took over. Now, with AFSOC in control, I would like to think they get at least twice that much but I havent heard for sure.
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  #10  
Old 20 January 2010, 17:15
ArmyFister ArmyFister is offline
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SOTAC

could anyone help me with trying to get a SOTAC slot. what i mean is where do i have to go for an application
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Old 20 January 2010, 21:23
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could anyone help me with trying to get a SOTAC slot. what i mean is where do i have to go for an application
Does your unit have a requirement for JTAC/SOTACC certification? If it does, then I'm sure your training shop (don't know what you call it in the Army) will have all the info. It is a SWC-run course, so the slots are tightly controlled.
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Old 22 January 2010, 21:36
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Fister:

You can wish in one hand... Seriously, unless your COC gets a billet allotted, you will never see a slot.

x/S
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  #13  
Old 22 January 2010, 21:46
Abu Khalil Abu Khalil is offline
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So much easier "back in the day" when one could do all of it, without "turf monkey credentials" in the mix. Now where did I put my AARP card?
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Old 28 March 2010, 15:47
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ArmyFister,

Not to crush your spirits, but here is the skiny on your question. Big Army isn't ready to have JTACs. Big Army will tell you they want them, but they aren't ready to pay the long term bill. In this case the bill boils down to the number of live controls it takes to maintain JTAC proficiency.

As a case study, (and depending on your FO background, a bit of preaching to the choir) take the JFO program as an example. JFO's are 'extended eyes' for JTACs, they don't do "Cleared Hot" or "Cleared to Engage" (Type 1/2 or Type 3 terms, respectively, used by JTACs in CAS) but can relay info to the JTAC to get things done.

According to the JFO MOA, you take an experienced FO, send him through 2 weeks of school (usually at Ft Sill) and he pops out the other side of the pipeline as a JFO. That is when the problems start...Big Army has never tracked JFO graduates (although this will be changing as early as April 2010), it is not a primary MOS (no plan to change this), thus not a reportable part of any commander's report card, and guys will grow out of the JFO world as they get promoted into leadership positions. Since Big Army doesn't track JFOs, there is no way of checking out if a guy is JFO certified (which means he's been through the course and has a certificate) if he doesn't have his certificate with him. The Battalion Commander (first O-5 in the chain) is responsible for signing off on the requirements to maintain the qualifications of the JFO, and he doesn't have any help even identifying who his JFOs are, much less knowing what those requirements are. Adding to the problem is Field Artillery's issues of having you guys not in a Field Artillery chain of command, but rather working inside some other Branch's lead BCT. So, that commander can't ask "The Army JFO management team" any questions on how to manage his unit's JFOs, because there isn't such an office.

To use an analogy, let's say JFOs are brain surgeons, and the Army wants brain surgeons because, well, they want brain surgeons. The initial bill is the course, in this case two weeks of training. Big Army feels that paying the initial bill should be all that is required. Again, using JFOs as brain surgeons...who would you want doing brain surgery on your brain? A guy that went through the course 4 years ago, and since brain surgery isn't his primary MOS, hasn't had to follow a strictly managed quality maintenance plan assuring each brain surgeon is as sharp or sharper than when they graduated. Thus, even if he graduated as the best JFO ever, he has been the BCT commander's driver (or some other non JFO related job)? Or would you want a brain surgeon who's primary MOS is brain surgeon, and his training is reported up the chain of command in quarterly reporting (thus his chain of command cares about his training), he does his job every week, and it is his primary focus?

Now, if the Army were to get a really good handle on JFO. Build a JFO program management office, make JFO a career track, among other things...and then after managing the JFO program very well, they were to address the JTAC issue with the other services...guys like you could have a shot at JTAC or SOTACC.

In the mean time, if you haven't gone through JFO, I would recommend it. Then, as you progress up the ranks, make sure you are pressing for better management of JFOs at the Army level (because in some Divisions, it is being done well, in others, not so much...). Then if/when the Army squares its JFO issues away, you could lead the way toward getting Army JTACS.
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Old 28 March 2010, 17:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu Khalil
So much easier "back in the day" when one could do all of it, without "turf monkey credentials" in the mix.
Wow, no kidding. For any of the current jarheads reading this, are you guys also restricted as to CFF, depending upon if you've been certified through some course?
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  #16  
Old 28 March 2010, 17:21
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Originally Posted by SOTB View Post
Wow, no kidding. For any of the current jarheads reading this, are you guys also restricted as to CFF, depending upon if you've been certified through some course?
No.
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Old 31 August 2010, 15:48
Craobhruadh Craobhruadh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidder View Post
ArmyFister,

Not to crush your spirits, but here is the skiny on your question. Big Army isn't ready to have JTACs. Big Army will tell you they want them, but they aren't ready to pay the long term bill. In this case the bill boils down to the number of live controls it takes to maintain JTAC proficiency.

As a case study, (and depending on your FO background, a bit of preaching to the choir) take the JFO program as an example. JFO's are 'extended eyes' for JTACs, they don't do "Cleared Hot" or "Cleared to Engage" (Type 1/2 or Type 3 terms, respectively, used by JTACs in CAS) but can relay info to the JTAC to get things done.

According to the JFO MOA, you take an experienced FO, send him through 2 weeks of school (usually at Ft Sill) and he pops out the other side of the pipeline as a JFO. That is when the problems start...Big Army has never tracked JFO graduates (although this will be changing as early as April 2010), it is not a primary MOS (no plan to change this), thus not a reportable part of any commander's report card, and guys will grow out of the JFO world as they get promoted into leadership positions. Since Big Army doesn't track JFOs, there is no way of checking out if a guy is JFO certified (which means he's been through the course and has a certificate) if he doesn't have his certificate with him. The Battalion Commander (first O-5 in the chain) is responsible for signing off on the requirements to maintain the qualifications of the JFO, and he doesn't have any help even identifying who his JFOs are, much less knowing what those requirements are. Adding to the problem is Field Artillery's issues of having you guys not in a Field Artillery chain of command, but rather working inside some other Branch's lead BCT. So, that commander can't ask "The Army JFO management team" any questions on how to manage his unit's JFOs, because there isn't such an office.

To use an analogy, let's say JFOs are brain surgeons, and the Army wants brain surgeons because, well, they want brain surgeons. The initial bill is the course, in this case two weeks of training. Big Army feels that paying the initial bill should be all that is required. Again, using JFOs as brain surgeons...who would you want doing brain surgery on your brain? A guy that went through the course 4 years ago, and since brain surgery isn't his primary MOS, hasn't had to follow a strictly managed quality maintenance plan assuring each brain surgeon is as sharp or sharper than when they graduated. Thus, even if he graduated as the best JFO ever, he has been the BCT commander's driver (or some other non JFO related job)? Or would you want a brain surgeon who's primary MOS is brain surgeon, and his training is reported up the chain of command in quarterly reporting (thus his chain of command cares about his training), he does his job every week, and it is his primary focus?

Now, if the Army were to get a really good handle on JFO. Build a JFO program management office, make JFO a career track, among other things...and then after managing the JFO program very well, they were to address the JTAC issue with the other services...guys like you could have a shot at JTAC or SOTACC.

In the mean time, if you haven't gone through JFO, I would recommend it. Then, as you progress up the ranks, make sure you are pressing for better management of JFOs at the Army level (because in some Divisions, it is being done well, in others, not so much...). Then if/when the Army squares its JFO issues away, you could lead the way toward getting Army JTACS.
Its being done at CORP level on Bragg we got tired of waiting for everything you are saying here and have taken it upon ourselves to get it done and create the sustainment program and facilities working with our ASOG buddies for guidance to get it done.

Contact me off line and I will hook you up if your interested in doing it at your post.

4/101ABN is already on point they beat us to the punch so we have taken their ideas and ours and have put together one hell of a tracking and sustainment program.

SFC Guarino

gioacchino.guarino@conus.army.mil
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  #18  
Old 31 August 2010, 15:49
Craobhruadh Craobhruadh is offline
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got a hell of a brief which lays it out for you.
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