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Old 12 June 2008, 12:43
VMI_Marine VMI_Marine is offline
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JTAC Reading List

OK, let's hear it. What books do you consider required or recommended reading for JTACs/JFOs? I'm not talking doctrinal pubs like the 3-09.3, I'm talking commercially available stuff like Danger Close or Storm On The Horizon. Brief descriptions of the book and how they relate to CAS or fire support are helpful as well.

I haven't read Danger Close, but Storm On The Horizon deals with the Battle of Khafji in January of 1991. It starts with the initial contact around OP-4, including the fratricide incident involving an A-10 destroying a LAV-25 with a Maverick, and continues all the way through the retaking of Khafji by Saudi and Qatari forces. It talks quite a bit about ANGLICO involvement in the battle. I'm including this book not only because of the ANGLICO piece, but also because of the importance of close air support in the battle.
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Old 12 June 2008, 14:42
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Danger Close is a good book.

Guy named Roper wrote two books,
IIRC "Quote the Raven" about FAC'ing in Viet Nam (not a great book),
Aardvarks to Rangers, takes his transition from F-111 Driver to ALO for a Rgr Bn that concludes with his jump into Grenada during URGENT FURY. I liked the second book better then the first.
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Old 12 June 2008, 15:00
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Video of CAS on YouTube and other forums provides some good second hand experiences, although the context on each incident is often very thin or non existent.

It's one hell of a deterrent if you ask me, I stopped emplacing IED's in my neighborhood after seeing a few of them.
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Old 12 June 2008, 16:54
USMC_ANGLICO USMC_ANGLICO is offline
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There is an article out the called "The Role of CAS in Peace Operations" by Major Steve Rudder that has some good information in it. It is a little outdated, circa 1997, but talks abouts situations where CAS can be implemented in the urban, semi-permissive environment to accomplish specific strategic goals. I guess today we call that the asymetric battlefield.

Includes case studies on CAS operations in Bosnia and Somalia, but as you read the conclusions, many of them have already been adopted by the JCAS pub and I think the 0.1% PI info is outdated also.


I agree, checking out "youtube" and "liveleak" video of CAS is cool, but to break it down for a lesson learned I would imagine is difficult. We would not know things like, laser geometry, closest friendlies, was the JTAC working a stack and had other resources in the battlespace, targeting/weaponeering, etc.

They do have great footage though to put to some "Disturbed" and use as an attention getter for a CAS hip pocket class to my Marines.
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Old 12 June 2008, 18:01
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AAR's with multiple drops, etc. are great reads that is, if you can get a hold of them.
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Old 12 June 2008, 18:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VMI_Marine View Post

I haven't read Danger Close,
You should have said something. You can borrow my copy...
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Old 12 June 2008, 19:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xdeth View Post
Video of CAS on YouTube and other forums provides some good second hand experiences, although the context on each incident is often very thin or non existent.

It's one hell of a deterrent if you ask me, I stopped emplacing IED's in my neighborhood after seeing a few of them.
X2 for the video clips. There is an awesome clip getting around showing good use of the lightning pod and how a FAC-A talks on an aircraft using it.
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Old 12 June 2008, 20:04
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Not geared towards FAC's and JTACS but this may help you understand the DASC/Marine Air Command and Control System(MACCS):

https://www.29palms.usmc.mil/tenants.../asts/asts.asp

Article on the DASC:
http://www.afa.org/magazine/june2004/0604marine.asp

Another good article:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cst/csat52.pdf
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Old 14 June 2008, 12:35
VMI_Marine VMI_Marine is offline
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There have been some good articles in the Gazette recently. Quite a few folks in the Marine Corps are not happy with integrating Army RW CCA into MAGTF battlespace, since the Army refuses to abide by JCAS procedures. Also, their procedural control isn't the best. I had Apaches encroach on my airspace more than once, and one of those times a fellow JTAC working the same airspace was getting ready to drop a 500 pounder.
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Last edited by VMI_Marine; 6 July 2008 at 10:21.
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Old 14 June 2008, 14:55
Forestboy Forestboy is offline
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The Mar Div DASC had the same problem and Gen Mattis threatened to shoot down the next Apache in his airspace that wasn't talking to the DASC. That fixed the problem.

Nobody does procedural control like the Marines. The Brits have sent a few people over to visit us at the school house to see how we do it. Then they sent their incarnation of the DASC to Afghanistan about 18 months ago. I haven't heard from them since they went over.
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Old 15 June 2008, 00:12
USMC_ANGLICO USMC_ANGLICO is offline
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Is it that the Army RW players just don't get the CAS training they should before they head over? I know they are employed by the Army as a maneuver element but I would think they had seen this stuff by now, I mean we are in year 5 of this.

I have also heard stories of USAF A-10 guys checking-in on JTAC's working a stack and coming over the Comms with, "I am now the on-scene commander and will be running the stack and CAS". I think my repsonse would have to be something like, "Great, go ahead and hold Bravo 75 at 18k and advise when Bingo", screw that. Anyone else have stories of things like that and what you did to deal with it. The lessons learned will come in handy for me shortly. Thanks and S/F
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Old 15 June 2008, 00:25
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Never had an issue with A-10's and never heard of them doing that to Marine FAC's/JTAC's.

I'll ask around at work as we have guys that have been in the DASC covering most of the rotations since 03.

After telling them hell no you aren't the on scene commander or running this stack, I would let the TACC deal with the offending pilot, maybe they could do that without screwing it up. Maybe if they had pilots to chastise they would remove their micro-managing fingers from the air support side. They seem to forget there are Marines bleeding on occasion.
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Old 15 June 2008, 00:50
USMC_ANGLICO USMC_ANGLICO is offline
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Forest - Thanks for the reply/guidance and for checking around to see if others have had any issues, like I said, these are stories I have heard and am always looking for the real scoop. Another thing I had heard from guys were that some JTAC's are not even outside the wire and doing the whole thing from the FOB. Running Type 2 stuff with Rover and the like.

I don't know, I appreciate technology like the next guy, but I would feel very uneasy not being out there with my Marines in the thick of it. Not that I don't think they would be able to handle it, I know they would, but I am a Marine and we lead from the front, not from a a/c building while my guys are out sweating. S/F
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Old 15 June 2008, 01:14
Forestboy Forestboy is offline
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We ran some type 2 stuff with a brit. He had just finished a tour as a FAC and was piloting a phoenix(Brit UAV). He happened to be there when a ground unit without a FAC called in. The Brits went to great lengths to remind us that not all of their UAV pilots could do that.

As for being outside the wire, we in the control group have to get the group commanders permission to go outside the wire. The Bn CO/Air Officers would love for an ASLT to be in the BN COC on some of the ops, but the permission is not given 99.9999% of the time.
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Old 15 June 2008, 13:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forestboy View Post
The Brits went to great lengths to remind us that not all of their UAV pilots could do that.
Go to great lengths next time in reminding them that the Germans developed UAV's during WW II on their soil.....
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  #16  
Old 20 August 2008, 09:37
VMI_Marine VMI_Marine is offline
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Airpower in Small Wars: Fighting Insurgents and Terrorists by James S. Corum and Wray R. Johnson.

I haven't read this one yet, still trying to get through Danger Close while preparing for a PCS move, but it was recommended at Small Wars Council.
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"This is how it is when the war machine rolls back and forth. You take your pleasure where you can and when you can, and let the circumstances be damned. For tomorrow you may be somewhere else." - Cass

"I understand all of the words you used, but I don't know what you just said." - Gen. Hagee speaking to the MEU S-3
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Old 20 August 2008, 15:23
MS275 MS275 is offline
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Smile Good CAS Books...

If you just want good history, then read..."Help from above" Air Force Close Air Support of the Army 1946-1973 by John Schlight.

There's a picture of a Combat Controller from 'Nam on the cover. I think it may be SATCOM.:D

MS
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  #18  
Old 1 February 2010, 13:50
Meat63-2 Meat63-2 is offline
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FNG

As far as JTAC school goes does anyone know how long the Naval Special Warfare course is?
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  #19  
Old 12 May 2010, 08:25
detonator2x detonator2x is offline
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http://www.romad.com/sales/amazon.htm

Crosspost
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Old 1 October 2010, 10:36
Argyll 50 Argyll 50 is offline
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Fire strike 7/9 about a Brit JTAC in Afghanistan, reading it now and is hard to put down.
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