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  #41  
Old 13 May 2009, 11:22
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Originally Posted by psyco6 View Post
How are they for wide feet?I have a hard time just finding regular running shoes except for New Balance.Do they come in wide?

I don't think so...they are all in European sizes, and I've never heard of any "wide," or any other modifier tacked onto EU size...I dunno for sure, though.
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  #42  
Old 13 May 2009, 11:54
Carl Spackler
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My feet are like leather. I NEVER wear shoes. I jus saw these in Sport Chalet here in SoCal. Looked at um and they seem kinda thin. Reading here I haven't heard how long they last for the 90 bucks.
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  #43  
Old 13 May 2009, 12:35
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My feet are like leather. I NEVER wear shoes. I jus saw these in Sport Chalet here in SoCal. Looked at um and they seem kinda thin. Reading here I haven't heard how long they last for the 90 bucks.
I've had mine for...maybe 6 or 8 months...I wear them constantly, and thus far, they aren't really showing any signs of wear. Seems like they could last years, if taken care of properly...
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  #44  
Old 13 May 2009, 13:19
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Originally Posted by Typhoon View Post
My flats boots are a lot tougher than those. Somehow I don't think that'll stop the sharp pointy stuff from going through your feet...
Which boots do you wear? And where are you fishing?

I've been thinking about picking up a pair of these and was actually just discussing them with a guy on another forum yesterday (he doesn't use them for fishing).

I would use them 90% of the time fishing the back bays of NJ where the most I've really got to worry about is sea shells so I don't think they'd have a problem standing up to that.

My real concern is that the vaccum that occurs when you step in some muck would pull them off your feet.
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  #45  
Old 13 May 2009, 13:51
Gunpoint Gunpoint is offline
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Running with them now for 2 months, 2 - 3 times a week. They are ripping on the outside pinkie toe area. Didn't really last long.
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  #46  
Old 13 May 2009, 14:19
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Which boots do you wear? And where are you fishing?

I've been thinking about picking up a pair of these and was actually just discussing them with a guy on another forum yesterday (he doesn't use them for fishing).

I would use them 90% of the time fishing the back bays of NJ where the most I've really got to worry about is sea shells so I don't think they'd have a problem standing up to that.

My real concern is that the vaccum that occurs when you step in some muck would pull them off your feet.
I think the ones I got are called the "flow," and they ain't comin' off.
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  #47  
Old 22 June 2009, 16:27
IronMike IronMike is offline
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Originally Posted by psyco6 View Post
How are they for wide feet?I have a hard time just finding regular running shoes except for New Balance.Do they come in wide?
I have the same problem. Brooks makes wide widths. I like the Adrenaline. I keep trying other brands, and come back to the Brooks. They're much lighter than the NBs.
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  #48  
Old 4 October 2009, 09:07
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If you are considering buying a pair, I would recommend writing the company and asking for their MIL/ discount pricing. They sent me an excel doc that lists them for about 20-30 bucks cheaper than the regularly listed online prices.
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  #49  
Old 14 October 2009, 00:59
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Poison, good find. I have the Injinji toe socks, and won't run in anything else now.

Apparently the way my toes are, anytime I do runs over a couple miles, my toes rub together. Before, it meant blisters. With toe socks, I'm set. It does take awhile to get used to, but they're money. They're so money they don't even know it.

And five fingers? I JUST saw a girl with them at the gym a couple days ago, asked WTF she was wearing. She swears by them. Now I know some of you clowns are on board and have tried them out as well, I just may have to give them a shot. And Bomb Kicker, great call on MIL pricing!

Apparently it takes awhile to get used to running in them, and I was cautioned that the soles are thin so you have to be careful stepping on rocks etc to toughen your feet again. We're so used to shoes/boots that our poor feet have gotten soft. Barefoot as a kid we'd walk over most anything, right? Re-adjusting will be interesting.
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  #50  
Old 14 October 2009, 18:18
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What about for heavier guys? Is the lack of padding a problem for any of you muscle/fat bound people?
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  #51  
Old 23 November 2009, 19:04
okami1 okami1 is offline
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The biomechanics of running

I've noticed recently that a lot of the people with whom I talk about running experience either regular pain or injury as a part of their experience. I'm looking to start a thread about people's experiences with running injuries, how they recovered, and how they remained injury free. Specifically, what changed?

In my own running practice, I have consistently tried to listen to what my body is telling me when I run, paying meticulous attention to all the creaks and footfalls as I cover the distance, and taking notes on these observations at the end of the run. This has altered the biomechanics of my stride significantly, and I finally feel that I can run most distances confidently and without pain.

When I first started running, I guess I had the same type of stride as most beginners, that is, head back, shoulders back, hips back, long strides with a pronounced outside heel landing. I quickly discovered that this was not the way to run long distances, due to the fact that this stride is well suited for activities in which sprinting for short distances is needed. As I progressed in distance and time, I noticed that my stride length became much shorter, and I was no longer heel-striking. The danger in heel-striking lies in the way that the quadriceps muscle is designed to function, and in the oscillation induced in the knee when following this stride pattern.

The quadriceps muscle has one function; to straighten the leg. When we heel-strike with our foot landing forward of the vertical plane of the body, the quadriceps muscle is put in a compromising position. As we move forward, and the quad is attempting to straighten the leg, our momentum and stride are simultaneously acting in the opposite direction by the function of the hamstring's contraction, which pulls us through the stride. I think this is one of the major reasons for the frequency with which people sustain quadricep pulls and tears.

Also, the knee takes a beating in this same stride. As we land on the outside rear edge of our shoes, our knees track towards the outside of the leg. As we roll onto the foot, we roll back to the inside front edge of the shoe, causing the knee to track the opposite direction, towards the inside of the leg. Finally, we again roll our foot to the outside, tracking the knee again towards the outside, and push off with the outside front edge of the shoe. This oscillation of the knee joint is pronounced, and I think contributes to the knee pain and injury that many runners encounter. I'm willing to bet that many reading this will have a pronounced wear mark and deformation on the rear outer edges of their running shoes. Mine were terrible before I fixed it.

These are two examples of problems with what I have seen in a "standard" runner's stride. I have done a couple things to correct this tendency and my running has vastly improved as a result.

1. Pelvis Tilt- Most of the time we stand and run with our pelvis thrust backwards, meaning the lower portion of the pelvis is closer to the posterior plane of the body than the top. By consciously shifting the lower portion of the pelvis forward, we stack the spine, and a slight bend comes into the knee. This tilt also encourages our legs to move in a more pronounced back-forth motion, vice up-down, thereby reducing impact on our bodies as we take our strides. This has been HUGE in my running, and definitely has enabled me to run longer distances than I ever had been able to prior to making this change.

2. Mid-foot striking- What the pelvis tilt gives your stride is the ability to have your feet landing squarely beneath the vertical plane of your body, not landing in front of the body like in the heel-striking stride. This reduces impact on the knees and quads, and also has the effect of shortening the stride length, also reducing impact. With this shortened stride length, comes the ability to land on the entire length of the foot, and not just the heel. The oscillation of the knee is less pronounced, and with practice can be eliminated all together. A slight lean forward in your running posture will help you land mid-foot, and also helps to propel you forward by using gravity to your advantage. Cool trick at the end of a long run to keep going. The thing to get really good at, is getting your feet to land directly underneath your body as you run.

3. Iliopsoas muscle- The iliopsoas muscle is a large muscle which attaches at the lower back, and runs down to the inside of the pelvic girdle. If you are standing straight up, and bring your leg so your femur is at a 90 degree angle to your torso, you're using your iliopsoas to do so. Not only is this muscle stronger and more dynamic than your legs, but using it to run has promoted a profound settling of my body's core, allowing for a more coherent and sustainable stride. Coupled with the pelvis tilt, the mid-foot strike, and a slight lean, using the iliopsoas muscle as one of the primary muscles being used to propel you forward can induce a stability and relaxation into the stride that can keep you going for longer distances. It also helps avoid a lot of the leg strain and fatigue I have heard so many runners talk about.

These are just a few observations; my running has progressed to the point where I have gotten rid of all motion-control, stability padded, thick-soled running shoes, and I now run exclusively in vibram five-fingers. If you haven't seen them, you will laugh when you do. Although people may laugh, I am basically running in bare feet with a thin rubber sole, and my times and enjoyment of running have never been better. I feel more in touch with what my body is telling me, and consequently because of that constant feedback, I have been altering my stride little by little. This has enabled me to gain more efficiency and stability in my stride. Even when I was in running shoes, my stride was moving towards this more biomechanically favorable running stride, and switching to a shoe with almost no padding whatsoever was the best thing I ever did for my running practice. I'm not proselytizing about running in bare feet, but the changes above were made in large part due to my realization that what my body needed was more feedback, not less. Less padding, not more. Of course, YMMV.

Thoughts? Comments/Questions?

My hope is to build up an ongoing compendium of biomechanical observations and techniques that assist us runners in staying injury free and running for many years to come.
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  #52  
Old 23 November 2009, 20:06
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Thumbs up

Can't recommend them enough. Work into them s-l-o-w-l-y. I train in them regularly and just ran a 12K with no problems. Working up to marathon distance in them. See thread I just posted here:http://socnet.com/showthread.php?t=90740

The realizations I detail there both led me to and were inspired by getting out of "running" shoes.

JCasp- They will change your stride to accommodate your body, so I have had no problems related to lack of padding. I go about 6'0" and 190 lbs.
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  #53  
Old 23 November 2009, 22:53
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To go along with the pelvic tilt (and this maybe be what you were talking about and I just misunderstood you) - work on tightening the abs and your glutes. It will bring the front of the pelvis up and the back down, reducing strain on the lumbar spine region and also allows your legs to move "freer" (completely unscientific, but I notice when I do make a point of doing so, my stride opens up more, I run faster, and use less energy). This also important for general back health at all times. Try it sitting in your chair at your computer, I guarantee that you'll notice a world of difference and an instant relaxed feeling in your lumbar region. It takes time to condition your muscles to this "new" posture, but it is more anatomically correct and will do wonders for you.

In addition to this (I find it to be complimentary to each other), proper shoulder alignment is key. You wouldn't think it, but keeping your shoulder and scapulae in the correct position will also reduce strain on your backs, hips, and legs as well as opening up your chest/lungs and making it easier to breathe.

Just a couple of hints. And I'll echo the Vibram Five Fingers recommendation. Believe it or not, but both of the above things will happen automatically when you wear them, not just running, but for everyday use. It was pretty cool when I realized that.

I, however, even with these tips still have some pain during and after a run. That's a result of a few knee injuries that required a knee immobilizer for up to 6 months. I now have a slight limp that I have still, to this day, not figured out how to correct. If anyone has any ideas, let me know. My body just got used to compensating and walking all f-ed up, and now I can't get it back "right" years later.
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  #54  
Old 24 November 2009, 00:35
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I've also converted over to running in them. Strangely enough all my knee pains went away. I really like them. Got a pair called the CSO which have a velcro strap as well

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  #55  
Old 24 November 2009, 08:46
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Mine are still going strong.Very little visible signs of wear. They smell like ass after a few uses though.
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  #56  
Old 24 November 2009, 09:44
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After 22 years in the military I'm still a running neophyte. Anytime I go more than a couple miles I have swollen knees and ankles the following day with accompanying soreness.

I don't stride, I bounce inefficiently along to a painful finish relieved that the run is over. Now that I don't have to run anymore I'm going to stick with cycling and swimming. Is it even worth the effort, at my age, to try to find a way to improve my form?
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  #57  
Old 24 November 2009, 13:42
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Mine are still goint strong as well. I've taken to throwing them in the washing machine with my laundry every other week, which will probably cut the life down a bit, but at least it keeps the smell tolerable. I DO think I'll look at the injinji toe-socks, though...as the seems in the 5fingers start to rub and irritate after a couple miles.

As for regular running shoes, I won't buy anything but Brooks anymore.
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  #58  
Old 24 November 2009, 21:11
okami1 okami1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
To go along with the pelvic tilt (and this maybe be what you were talking about and I just misunderstood you) - work on tightening the abs and your glutes. It will bring the front of the pelvis up and the back down, reducing strain on the lumbar spine region and also allows your legs to move "freer" (completely unscientific, but I notice when I do make a point of doing so, my stride opens up more, I run faster, and use less energy). This also important for general back health at all times. Try it sitting in your chair at your computer, I guarantee that you'll notice a world of difference and an instant relaxed feeling in your lumbar region. It takes time to condition your muscles to this "new" posture, but it is more anatomically correct and will do wonders for you.
We are definitely on the same page. Your observation is an excellent one, and I think is the real key to making the pelvis tilt work like it's supposed to. I was just working on this today with my wife during our run. Taking the arch out of the lumbar area of the spine, and consciously drawing the tailbone towards the ground is the way I was trying to accomplish what you're talking about. It took some getting used to, but once I did, it really felt easy and correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
In addition to this (I find it to be complimentary to each other), proper shoulder alignment is key. You wouldn't think it, but keeping your shoulder and scapulae in the correct position will also reduce strain on your backs, hips, and legs as well as opening up your chest/lungs and making it easier to breathe.

Just a couple of hints. And I'll echo the Vibram Five Fingers recommendation. Believe it or not, but both of the above things will happen automatically when you wear them, not just running, but for everyday use. It was pretty cool when I realized that.
That is why I love them. You can't do it wrong because your body won't do it without letting you know it hurts. Too cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
I, however, even with these tips still have some pain during and after a run. That's a result of a few knee injuries that required a knee immobilizer for up to 6 months. I now have a slight limp that I have still, to this day, not figured out how to correct. If anyone has any ideas, let me know. My body just got used to compensating and walking all f-ed up, and now I can't get it back "right" years later.
That sucks. Have you tried a physical therapist and/or chiropractic type who might be able to tell you a little more of how the anatomy is functioning in the deficient knee? I think it always helps me to be able to visualize the area in question when I'm moving it, so I can consciously engage in changing the movement to a more correct, less painful one. My right leg is about 1/4" shorter than my left, and I wear a heel lift to compensate. When I could visualize the bone structure in my lumbar spine and hips, and what was happening in there to cause me pain, I felt like it was a whole new assessment of how to correct the problem. My back has been pretty stable for a while now because of that conscious correction on my part, that has now just become habit. HTH and good luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker19D30 View Post
After 22 years in the military I'm still a running neophyte. Anytime I go more than a couple miles I have swollen knees and ankles the following day with accompanying soreness.

I don't stride, I bounce inefficiently along to a painful finish relieved that the run is over. Now that I don't have to run anymore I'm going to stick with cycling and swimming. Is it even worth the effort, at my age, to try to find a way to improve my form?
That's a really good question, especially if the swimming and cycling are working for you and providing you with the level of fitness you want. The question I would ask is: Do you enjoy running?/ Is there some hint of enjoyment you sense about running, but are unable to concentrate on due to the unenjoyable aspects of it?

I think that working with your stride can definitely make running available to you as an alternate form of exercise. With the formal changes to my own stride I noted above, I have very little bounce in my stride and am shuffling along at a good clip. I'm about to turn 33 and consequently have begun to really invest some mental energy in taking my running to a completely sustainable place as I get older. Before I really got into it, I definitely had the same symptoms you describe, sore knees, legs, etc.
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Old 24 November 2009, 21:12
okami1 okami1 is offline
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Mine smell absolutely funkariffic after a week. I wash them in super hot water on the gentle cycle once a week too.
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  #60  
Old 24 November 2009, 23:08
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http://www.menshealth.com/cda/articl...eac____&page=1

All the rucking I did in the army forced me to change my stride, to the point friends make fun of my running. You can't heel strike with 60 effing lbs on your back. :sarcasm: Interestingly, I have no ankle, knee, or hip pain, despite the mega-abuse.
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