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  #21  
Old 31 January 2019, 02:00
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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FBI Arrests 2nd Chinese National For Stealing Trade Secrets From Apple

I'm just as "fuck Apple" as the next guy, but this just serves as an example of just how stubbornly stupid America is as a society. People just can't get it through their heads that foreigners (uh-oh, trigger warning) simply are here to pilfer and loot the prosperity of our civilization and honestly would treat us openly like they do the dogs at their Yulin Dog Meat Festivals, if they had the slightest opportunity to do so.

Quote:
Days after the US filed a sweeping indictment against Huawei that included charges its engineers stole trade secrets from T-Mobile (allegations that were also the subject of a civil suit), NBC Bay Area reported that the FBI has arrested another Chinese national working for Apple's secretive self-driving car project - code-named "Project Titan" - for stealing trade secrets. That's the second such arrest in six months (readers can find our report on the earlier arrest, which happened in July, here).

Apple reportedly started investigating the employee, an engineer named Jizhong Chen, when his fellow employees observed him taking photos of their work space. He was later found to be in possession of thousands of files containing proprietary trade secret like diagrams and manuals and schematics. The investigation escalated when Apple learned that Chen had applied for a job at a Chinese autonomous vehicle company. He was arrested the day before he was set to leave for China.
STOP GIVING THESE PEOPLE ACCESS TO OUR TECH. Stop educating them. Stop hiring them. Just STOP. For the love of friggin' God.
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  #22  
Old 31 January 2019, 10:36
kosty kosty is offline
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"Follow your dreams" is fuel to those with a degree of wisdom and who are driven to excel.

It is poison to those who lack drive to excel.

Most of humanity is screwed by "follow your dreams".
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  #23  
Old 31 January 2019, 12:52
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Good friends of ours are Chinese. The wife became a citizen on 12/7, her husband will get his soon. He is a tech something-or-other at NC State Univ; he thinks that a third of all Chinese nationals in tech companies or in grad school in the US work for Chinese intel. he does not understand why the US doesn't vet Chinese better; he also says that on what he is working, the Chinese are about 5 years ahead.
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  #24  
Old 31 January 2019, 13:23
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I'm jaded. To me, the concept of "follow your dreams" is a scam.
A big scam.
A really big scam.

Its the root of the reason why we are facing a educational tech gap with other countries - we want to dream and not work. I dream.
I dream a lot...
I dream about eating regularly scheduled meals in a warm house with a roof that don't leak so that whole "follow your dreams" doesn't support my narrative.

I dreamed about being an astronaut - a race car driver - a pro baseball player - a rock star - a playboy - a movie star - plus a few other random professions....
That shit didnt play out like I planned - but I have great kids and a great wife - and a pretty cool dog - and fun hobbies that I can afford

Some folks want to follow dreams even if it means sleeping in their car...
....and that is just fine - but dont fucking cry to me that you are sleeping in your car.
...and dont ask me to pay for your fucking happy-meal because you spent all your money driving up the coast to your next gig
...and dont ask me to pay the rent to your shitty midtown loft because you spent all your money buying paint and canvas for your ridiculous looking "art"

Follow your dreams - then wave your fist and scream at the clouds because NOBODY wants to hire you because your degree in pop culture from Bowling Green State University is fucking worthless.

Follow your dreams - then spend your life as an activist because your Masters Degree in Art History or your PHD in gender Philosophy have buried you in student debt.

Lets cultivate an arts and humanities based SJW society and then scratch our heads wondering why we cant build a fucking car that can compete with Honda or a truck that can compete globally with Toyota.

Its much easier to just blame it all on guns, religion, antipathy, misogynistic supreme court justices, and a president that is a over-twittered racist.

Personal accountability itself is an offensive concept - eat your peas
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  #25  
Old 31 January 2019, 13:51
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Sales pitch to kids: Follow your dreams. You can earn a living doing whatever you enjoy. make you hobby your career.

Reality: Get educated for a field that will pay you enough to have a good hobby or pursue your interests.
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  #26  
Old 31 January 2019, 13:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streck-Fu View Post
...Reality: Get educated for a field that will pay you enough to have a good hobby or pursue your interests.
Agreed, and I would like to add, an education that does not cost so much that you will never realistically pay off the student loans.
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  #27  
Old 31 January 2019, 16:48
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Originally Posted by Devildoc View Post
...he thinks that a third of all Chinese nationals in tech companies or in grad school in the US work for Chinese intel. he does not understand why the US doesn't vet Chinese better...
On the export control side (we work pretty closely with CI but they approach this from a different angle), we do a restricted party screening of all potential hires or collaborations, not on just the name of the individual but their former employers and universities. There are some universities (and their students) that we will absolutely bar from working with us. If someone graduated from a barred university, we will not work with them. That screening process is widely used in both private industry and government labs although level of rigor obviously differs between orgs.

The USG knows these people are working within their institutions, they've made a risk decision to allow vast Chinese access to these laboratories and mostly rely on administrative controls (like export controls) and overworked CI officers to manage the risk.

Apparently someone finally woke up. We are expecting many of our license requests that we are planning to submit for our foreign staff working on sensitive technologies to be rejected under the new regulations.

Our senior executives (and execs at gov tech orgs across the nation) are all having panic attacks over this. It is a freight train that's coming.

Last edited by DC; 31 January 2019 at 17:02.
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  #28  
Old 2 February 2019, 14:21
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Long overdue IMO but we are going to struggle if we can’t get our kids into these fields.

Heads exploding right now all over the DOE National Lab Complex.

Quote:
DOE to ban foreign talent- recruitment programs

The Wall Street Journal (Puko, O’Keefe) reported that DOE says “it will ban its scientists and other employees from participating in talent-recruitment programs sponsored by China and other countries suspected of using them to obtain sensitive research.” According to the article, in a memo issued Friday, the department said it “would require all of its personnel, contracted scientists and future grant recipients to declare any connections to programs from countries it determines as ‘sensitive.’” The article indicated that “employees with the links will be asked to either sever those ties or resign.”
Quote:
Deputy Secretary Dan Brouillette, the article continued, told WSJ that “this action’s being taken to protect U.S. national security interests and scientific integrity,” emphasizing that “you’re either going to work for us or work for them.”
Love it. Very “Trumpian” / DD0311 type policy.

Last edited by DC; 2 February 2019 at 14:35.
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  #29  
Old 3 February 2019, 03:55
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Like I said, pay our kids well enough and they will come to the high tech fields again. It's a no-brainer why kids would steer clear of high pressure degrees when there's no point because you wont really get any more money than say, a gender-studies idiot that goes to work for Google or Nike, or whatever other left-wing batshit company decides to hire them.

PAY the price for the skills that are in demand. Otherwise, we'll keep getting stuff like this:

US intelligence warns China is using student spies to steal secrets

Quote:
Washington (CNN): In August 2015, an electrical engineering student in Chicago sent an email to a Chinese national titled "Midterm test questions."

More than two years later, the email would turn up in an FBI probe in the Southern District of Ohio involving a suspected Chinese intelligence officer who authorities believed was trying to acquire technical information from a defense contractor.
Investigators took note.

They identified the email's writer as Ji Chaoqun, a Chinese student who would go on to enlist in the US Army Reserve. His email, they say, had nothing to do with exams.
Instead, at the direction of a high-level Chinese intelligence official, Ji allegedly attached background reports on eight US-based individuals who Beijing could target for potential recruitment as spies, according to a federal criminal complaint.
The eight -- naturalized US citizens originally from Taiwan or China -- had worked in science and technology. Seven had worked for or recently retired from US defense contractors. The complaint says all of them were perceived as rich targets for a new form of espionage that China has been aggressively pursuing to win a silent war against the US for information and global influence.

Ji was arrested in September last year, accused of acting as an "illegal agent" at the direction of a "high-level intelligence officer" of a provincial department of the Ministry of State Security, China's top espionage agency, the Department of Justice said at the time.

He was formally indicted by a grand jury on January 24. Ji appeared in federal court in Chicago on Friday and pleaded not guilty, according to Joseph Fitzpatrick, a spokesman for the US attorney's office in Chicago. He is due to appear in court next on February 26 and will remain in detention until then, Fitzpatrick said.
Stop teaching them. Stop hiring them. Just STOP. These people are our enemies.
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  #30  
Old 3 February 2019, 07:08
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Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
there's no point because you wont really get any more money than say, a gender-studies idiot that goes to work for Google or Nike, or whatever other left-wing batshit company decides to hire them.
Sorry dude but this is BS.
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  #31  
Old 3 February 2019, 10:36
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Let me correct him; very few nice American kids want to deal with the bullshit of university fuckery against cheating asian studybots just so they can work a dead end Dilbert engineering job fixing fucked up H1B 'code' for H1B wages in an office full of H1B stink where they will get outpromoted by the natural "6" blowjob queen and AA hires.

They finish their degree program and live out in flyover land and work in something the Asians don't want to steal, like one of my younger brothers, or they move to the executive side and manage the cube farms full of invaders after selling their souls, like several guys from my platoon. S/F...Ken M
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  #32  
Old 3 February 2019, 11:10
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Originally Posted by EchoFiveMike View Post
Let me correct him
Closer to reality but still BS.

Most US high school kids don't go into STEM because they don't have the basic math, science, and programming skills to do so. Most high school kids think that stats is "advanced math" and plod through Algebra only if it's still a requirement.

Don't blame the H1Bs....blame the parents. Our kids spend more time training for a long shot esports career and, enabled by "supportive parents", smoking weed in high school that they don't have the tools to even consider a STEM career that'll still pay an easy $70k or more out of college.

Oh, they'll have to have to study for it like the Asians do? Boo hoo. Cry me a river.
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  #33  
Old 3 February 2019, 13:03
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An Associates Degree in Sonography is a real hot ticket right now. Starting out in high $50s, and some are pulling in six figures after a few years.

Industrial, Chemical, Nuclear, agriculture, environmental, aeronautic, and civil engineering fields are also pretty good fields right now. Mechanical and Electirucal seems to be were all the foreign students here st Purdue migrate.
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  #34  
Old 3 February 2019, 14:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box View Post
I'm jaded. To me, the concept of "follow your dreams" is a scam.
A big scam.
A really big scam.

Its the root of the reason why we are facing a educational tech gap with other countries - we want to dream and not work. I dream.
I dream a lot...
I dream about eating regularly scheduled meals in a warm house with a roof that don't leak so that whole "follow your dreams" doesn't support my narrative.

I dreamed about being an astronaut - a race car driver - a pro baseball player - a rock star - a playboy - a movie star - plus a few other random professions....
That shit didnt play out like I planned - but I have great kids and a great wife - and a pretty cool dog - and fun hobbies that I can afford

Some folks want to follow dreams even if it means sleeping in their car...
....and that is just fine - but dont fucking cry to me that you are sleeping in your car.
...and dont ask me to pay for your fucking happy-meal because you spent all your money driving up the coast to your next gig
...and dont ask me to pay the rent to your shitty midtown loft because you spent all your money buying paint and canvas for your ridiculous looking "art"

Follow your dreams - then wave your fist and scream at the clouds because NOBODY wants to hire you because your degree in pop culture from Bowling Green State University is fucking worthless.

Follow your dreams - then spend your life as an activist because your Masters Degree in Art History or your PHD in gender Philosophy have buried you in student debt.

Lets cultivate an arts and humanities based SJW society and then scratch our heads wondering why we cant build a fucking car that can compete with Honda or a truck that can compete globally with Toyota.

Its much easier to just blame it all on guns, religion, antipathy, misogynistic supreme court justices, and a president that is a over-twittered racist.

Personal accountability itself is an offensive concept - eat your peas
I think you secretly recorded the conversation I had with my son in May after he graduated with a business degree from Loyola and decided to be a roadie for an EDM band.

That was several months ago....he's figuring it out and now has a real job....but boy, did his apathy and "follow my dream" attitude piss me off with so much naivety oozing from a kid with a measured 145 IQ....
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  #35  
Old 3 February 2019, 14:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streck-Fu View Post
Sales pitch to kids: Follow your dreams. You can earn a living doing whatever you enjoy. make you hobby your career.

Reality: Get educated for a field that will pay you enough to have a good hobby or pursue your interests.
Exactly. Steel on target.
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  #36  
Old 3 February 2019, 17:09
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Originally Posted by HighDragLowSpeed View Post
Closer to reality but still BS.

Most US high school kids don't go into STEM because they don't have the basic math, science, and programming skills to do so. Most high school kids think that stats is "advanced math" and plod through Algebra only if it's still a requirement.

Don't blame the H1Bs....blame the parents. Our kids spend more time training for a long shot esports career and, enabled by "supportive parents", smoking weed in high school that they don't have the tools to even consider a STEM career that'll still pay an easy $70k or more out of college.

Oh, they'll have to have to study for it like the Asians do? Boo hoo. Cry me a river.
I guess I'll be speaking from personal experience then. When I went to High School I didn't really apply myself. I hated math and didn't care about it enough to really get anything other than the bare minimum grade to pass my classes. Any AP classes were 'stupid' because at the time I believed there was no point in doing something more difficult when everyone really just got the same stupid diploma.

I graduated, joined the USMC. Blah Blah Blah. When I got out I used the GI Bill to pursue a STEM degree. Without having really any background in anything math, I still buckled down studied my ass off ---- sometimes for days straight ---- to learn the requisite skills I needed to pass the ridiculous Cal I, III, Thermo, Physics, Differential Equations, and various Chemistry courses I needed to get my degree. It sucked. It sometimes seemed like those kids that were partying it up and screwing college-aged cooze every day of the week with their garbage degrees had it all figured out. Hell, even one of my best friends, who is now a Capt in the USMC (he's a winger, so close enough ) has some chickenshit degree.

BUT, the biggest draw to my degree track was knowing that when I got out the floor for my salary would be right around $80k a year. I wound up getting more than that right out the gate, after about a year of OJT, but the point remains. Why on God's Earth would anyone choose an insanely hard degree path for some garbage $35k a year dead end cubicle-monkey job with shit benefits and the very real possibility of being laid-off and being replaced by some H1B visa foreigner..........if you could just get some fun fuck-off degree and wind up with the same menial career? Because it seems that's the cycle -- every time there is a skill or degree track that nets a great 'livable wage' upon graduation, it seems there is some fuckbag corporate ball-muncher who, within 4 or 5 years, destroys it by importing hordes of H1B street-shitters from some foreign slum at 1/4 the wage, saturating the market, and destroying that opportunity for the young men & women here in our own nation. "Yay capitalism", right? If that's the capitalism the boomers want, then you can have it. I'll take the third road.

If you want in-demand jobs and in-demand skills, then companies/institutions should pay the requisite wage that will attract bright and smart people from our own neighborhoods to that field and grow your talent pool. But that's not what they want to do. What they want is: Instead of paying 2 kids from Muskogee, OK $80k a year each to do their IT infrastructure properly --- they would rather pay 3 barely literate H1B morons from Mumbai $20k a year to do a substandard job that just barely works. And MAYBE for two weeks hire a domestic person, who should have gotten the job in the first place, at $800/day to fix their shit heap of a system when it inevitably goes down. At the end of the day, it's still cheaper than hiring good domestic talent. And that's what it's about, right? Cheap. Maximize profits. At the expense of the nation on the whole, when it gets down to brass tacks. A quarter of those profits can be used to bribe, er, I mean "lobby", Senators and Congressmen to keep the hordes of foreigners streaming into the country. Its bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit because it's now coming to a head with all the Anti-American political changes these foreigners are contributing to, not to mention stealing our tech. And before anyone "REEEEEs" about that statement, it's bad enough we have our own subversives, yes ---- but we don't need any more bacteria pressing into our wounds.

And the "Asians" don't study as much as everyone thinks. They fucking cheat. There are entire cheat industries in China in place to ensure that they get picked to go to western schools. All the standardized tests (SATs/MCATs/GREs) are basically a joke there. Same as they do when they get to American schools. Cheating/Plagiarizing/etc is all par for the course. Because it's not about acquiring skills, it's all about getting that piece of paper that gets you past the HR watchdogs at whatever company they will be applying to for their internship/career. They know they game, and they know that the only thing that matters is winning. NOT how you play the game.
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  #37  
Old 3 February 2019, 17:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
Like I said, pay our kids well enough and they will come to the high tech fields again. It's a no-brainer why kids would steer clear of high pressure degrees when there's no point because you wont really get any more money than say, a gender-studies idiot that goes to work for Google or Nike, or whatever other left-wing batshit company decides to hire them.

PAY the price for the skills that are in demand. Otherwise, we'll keep getting stuff like this:

US intelligence warns China is using student spies to steal secrets



Stop teaching them. Stop hiring them. Just STOP. These people are our enemies.
There is a lot of truth in your posts. Look at the Universtiees here now, the big STEM schools like my Purdue. Flooded with international students - mainly from China, India and Korea. More than double the number from when I was a student over 20 years ago. A Purdue actively recruits,they basically have full time recruiters based throughout those countries. Why? A international students tuition is almost 3x higher than in state.

And it is amazing, you can see the change. All the American driving around in junky old cars, or mediocre economy cars and trucks. The Asian students all driving around in Mercedes, porches, audis, ferraris, mcclarens, etc. Go to the upscale restaurants, packed with rich Chinese students.

Now I have several students from China in my martisl arts class, and they are good guys. But I see the shift. I can't blame them, they are doing what a nation should be doing - building their nation up. We say China is our new enemy, but yet we started all the businesses and technology there, love buying all our stuff made over there, and open our doors to their business ventures here and educating them. We are to blame, not China. Nixon made amends with them, few years later they are backing Pol Pot, yet we just give them the keys cause many got rich over it.

Saw it in Cambodia, where NGOs and US Embassy ruled the day 15 years ago, but now pretty much limp dicks as the Chinese and Koresns have moved in and taken over control with their money.

One of my students, a Thai national, doing his PHD in mechanical engineering told me they have around 40 in the program. Only 2 are Americans. Something is not right.,
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  #38  
Old 5 February 2019, 14:44
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One of the things that puts Labs like mine (and many others) in a bind is that federal law prevents us from posting positions requiring US Citizenship short of the position requiring a clearance. So it forces us to hire FNs if they are "most qualified" even if we are 100% sure their license application will be denied. So we are pretty much forced to hire folks that may be completely ineligible to do the work scope we hired them for. Then that same USG will absolutely body-slam you if you accidentally "export" the wrong technology to these folks.

Completely schizophrenic.

Quote:
The INA’s anti-discrimination provision prohibits employers from discriminating in hiring or recruiting or referring for a fee based on a person’s citizenship, immigration status, or national origin. In the absence of a legal basis (such as a law, regulation, or government contract that requires U.S. citizenship restrictions), employers, recruiters and referrers for a fee may not limit job opportunities or otherwise impose barriers to employment based on an individual’s citizenship or immigration status.

Last edited by DC; 5 February 2019 at 15:14. Reason: Clarification.
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  #39  
Old 5 February 2019, 20:51
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When I visited VT with my son, the tour guide was a American physics major. he joked he is most qualified with the least qualified foreigner in the department.....

DOD has a program DoD STEM: STEM Education Programs
https://dodstem.us/
DoD STEM provides STEM education programs for students, parents, and teachers to inspire and cultivate a diverse pool of exceptional STEM talent.

also https://www.arl.army.mil/www/default.cfm?page=2907
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  #40  
Old 6 February 2019, 10:34
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As long we have first strike capability I'm not worried about China.
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