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  #61  
Old 6 February 2019, 07:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just11b View Post
As many times as Mr. Prince has been hemmed up with legal issues, I doubt he ventured into this project without considerable legal advise from his dozen or so legal team on staff.
EP states he was unaware of it.
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  #62  
Old 6 February 2019, 08:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunk View Post
So as I read it, this is a Chinese company using his name and expertise in exchange for stock rather than a US company conducting training operations in China. Do I have that right?
Is this endeavor approved by DOD? or is the Chinese company/entity a way around that?

Frontier Service Group
If USPERS or entities are involved, it could well be considered an ITAR issue.
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  #63  
Old 6 February 2019, 08:39
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None of that is under DOD to enforce.

Our country has enough issues without granting DOD regulatory enforcement power over private citizens or entities.
  #64  
Old 6 February 2019, 08:40
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Can Prince go any lower?
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Originally Posted by gavin View Post
I thought it was about the musician, and my answer was "no, not at this point."
Not to detract from a good and serious thread, but this was gold. I woke the dogs laughing.
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  #65  
Old 6 February 2019, 09:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear View Post
Does it need to be?

Not asking to be a dick...it's a legitimate question.
there isnt really a straight answer... it depends...

DOD wouldnt be the approving authority.. but the US Government COULD BE.. depending on several things (training content, who is delivering the training, etc.. )..

That said, my guess is that whether we like it or not, this is probably 100% legitimate and above board.. training is being provided by a non-US company (FSG is not a US firm), in another country, my guess is that its being delivered by non-US personnel, and that the training being provided is either all open source, or does not originate with the US military or law enforcement and is not proprietary or exclusively military or law enforcement training..

ITAR applies not only to US companies but also to US citizens (which Prince is).. but if he isnt doing anything expressly in violation of either ITAR or EAR (our two primary export regulatory bodies)... then no, the US government has no authority to intervene or do anything about this..
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  #66  
Old 6 February 2019, 10:34
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It’s not like the USG isn’t keeping an eye on him and his activities, for all kinds of reasons.
  #67  
Old 6 February 2019, 12:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ET1/ss nuke View Post
Magician emerges from his lair on 2 Feb! Did you see your shadow?
LOL! No!

The stupid in that post echoed across the oceans and it disturbed my meditations.

I am astounded that folks think that somebody that they ate dinner with once has to be a good person. We saw that repeatedly in the Giduck case.

Men who survived Vietnam were duped by a scumbag, and unbelievably, they simply could not believe that somebody that broke bread with them was manipulating them.

I must share this gentle truth: just because you invite someone into your home, or because a slime ball invites you into his home, and you sit down and eat a civil dinner together, this does not magically erase facts.

Just because Dave Grossman systematically kisses the asses of veterans and cops because it pays his bills does not mean that he is a good man. To the contrary. He is a shit bird. All that you have to do to know this is read his stupid books, which still remain on the Commandant's reading list to this day.

Grossman never served in the early modern era Ranger Battalions or the Regiment. He graduated from a school that I attended as a PFC combat medic. It took me three tries to graduate from that course, but it was, in the end analysis, just a leadership course.

Grossman never heard a shot fired in anger, never partook in a firefight. And yet, he writes fatuous books about combat and killing. He never killed anyone.

I do not know Eric Prince. Never met him. If I did, it would not change facts, or history.

It is easy to be judgmental about Prince. All that I need to know about him was posted by Massgrunt, whom I have met in person, with whom I have had dinner, and whom I know is a good man--and not just because we spent time together. He has a long history with serious people on this board.

Those who know the details of that history know that Prince is a divisive personality. If Massgrunt tells me to hate him, I will.

And not just because we met.

All that I am suggesting is that we should all be honest about folks that we meet. Just because we meet them, or have dinner with them, does not magically absolve them of all sins.

And I do not like it when anyone casts aspersions at a friend of mine. Snide stupid comments disturb my train of thought.
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  #68  
Old 6 February 2019, 12:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magician View Post
LOL! No!

The stupid in that post echoed across the oceans and it disturbed my meditations.

I am astounded that folks think that somebody that they ate dinner with once has to be a good person. We saw that repeatedly in the Giduck case.

Men who survived Vietnam were duped by a scumbag, and unbelievably, they simply could not believe that somebody that broke bread with them was manipulating them.

I must share this gentle truth: just because you invite someone into your home, or because a slime ball invites you into his home, and you sit down and eat a civil dinner together, this does not magically erase facts.

Just because Dave Grossman systematically kisses the asses of veterans and cops because it pays his bills does not mean that he is a good man. To the contrary. He is a shit bird. All that you have to do to know this is read his stupid books, which still remain on the Commandant's reading list to this day.

Grossman never served in the early modern era Ranger Battalions or the Regiment. He graduated from a school that I attended as a PFC combat medic. It took me three tries to graduate from that course, but it was, in the end analysis, just a leadership course.

Grossman never heard a shot fired in anger, never partook in a firefight. And yet, he writes fatuous books about combat and killing. He never killed anyone.

I do not know Eric Prince. Never met him. If I did, it would not change facts, or history.

It is easy to be judgmental about Prince. All that I need to know about him was posted by Massgrunt, whom I have met in person, with whom I have had dinner, and whom I know is a good man--and not just because we spent time together. He has a long history with serious people on this board.

Those who know the details of that history know that Prince is a divisive personality. If Massgrunt tells me to hate him, I will.

And not just because we met.

All that I am suggesting is that we should all be honest about folks that we meet. Just because we meet them, or have dinner with them, does not magically absolve them of all sins.

And I do not like it when anyone casts aspersions at a friend of mine. Snide stupid comments disturb my train of thought.
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“Good Dude” syndrome, where someone you’re associated with is a “good dude” simply because that makes you a “good dude” for being associated with him. It becomes a big circle (jerk) and then one day, your organization is full of turds...ahem, “good dudes”.
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  #69  
Old 6 February 2019, 15:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jangalang View Post
Someone didn't get hired by BW, back in the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharky View Post
Wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polypro View Post
Who cares, Uncle Jesse was the best employer.
This little trifecta made me LOL.

On a sidebar: It's amazing how quickly someone can remove all doubt and validate their lack of SA on this board.

Secondly, FSG or whatever new incarnation of the dark overlord's training/advisory/security/fixitall company is currently doing something, somewhere...as it regards what Purple36 posted about originally:

No, he can't. But then again he's never cared about that aspect and that's part of the reason why he's been successful.
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  #70  
Old 6 February 2019, 15:50
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Thanks Magic, all you guys. Yeah, I didn't come by my opinion from reading Jeremy Scahill's "work". Neither did a lot of other people.
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  #71  
Old 6 February 2019, 17:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDog0311 View Post
helping the Chinese is almost borderline treason in my book. It’s only a matter of time until we’re in a shooting war with them, and any training they receive is going to be that much more American lives they’re able to take.
^^THIS^^.

There's a LOT of mainland Chinese kids at the Marine Military Academy in Harlingen, where my oldest is currently. There's no reason they need to be there participating in ROTC.
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  #72  
Old 6 February 2019, 19:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magician View Post

Just because Dave Grossman systematically kisses the asses of veterans and cops because it pays his bills does not mean that he is a good man. To the contrary. He is a shit bird. All that you have to do to know this is read his stupid books, which still remain on the Commandant's reading list to this day.
All of that may be true, but does someone need to be a "good person" to be a good researcher?

I really like Grossman's work. I first read On Killing and On Combat 12 years ago, and it helped me understand a lot of things that I had been trying to come to grips with for a few years. But...none of that makes me think, or need to think, that he's a "good person".

I don't see the relevance.
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  #73  
Old 6 February 2019, 20:22
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Most of his research was debunked over the last 18 years of war and there's discussion about it on here. He's a hack IMO. I thought that before 2001 and it's been reinforced since.
  #74  
Old 6 February 2019, 20:51
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The research he based his book on has been solidly established to be a fabrication. He may not have know it then but he certainly does now and doesn't seem to have ever acknowledged it. I knew it was bullshit the first time I heard about it as a PFC. He's also as close as you can get to being a poser while carefully avoiding the line.
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"The real problem was being able to stick it out, to sit in an office under the orders of a wee man in a dark gray suit and look out of the window and recall the bush country, the waving palms, the smell of sweat and cordite, the grunts of the men hauling jeeps over the river crossings, the copper-tasting fears just before the attack, and the wild, cruel joy of being alive afterward. To remember, and then go back to the ledgers and the commuter train, that was impossible. He knew he would eat his heart out if it ever came to that."

- "The Dogs of War" by Frederick Forsyth
  #75  
Old 7 February 2019, 04:36
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I'll have to do some research through some old posts then because this is the first I'm hearing of it.
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  #76  
Old 7 February 2019, 08:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magician View Post
If Massgrunt tells me to hate him, I will.
Sentences like this are what I love about this online community and the professional community I have been a member of for a long time.

-Stan
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  #77  
Old 7 February 2019, 10:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverbullet View Post
Most of his research was debunked over the last 18 years of war and there's discussion about it on here. He's a hack IMO. I thought that before 2001 and it's been reinforced since.
And yet a ton of LE Leaders and trainers still believe his crap and put him on deity status.

Perhaps if I can get Grossman to give it a thumbs up, maybe Big Army will let me train MPs to use combat shovels on the road.

  #78  
Old 7 February 2019, 11:08
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One of the things that disappointed me was the way that certain authors refused to hold Brad Thor and Grossman accountable because they wanted favorable book jacket blurbs.

In other words, it was all about money.

Sometimes it is better to expose the Brad Thors and the Dave Grossmans of the world as the fuckheads that they are than to bite your tongue in the hope that it will rebound financially to your benefit.

None of us is taking a single cent with us when we die. But our honor, our integrity, our truth--that lasts forever.
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  #79  
Old 7 February 2019, 11:22
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Originally Posted by magician View Post

None of us is taking a single cent with us when we die. But our honor, our integrity, our truth--that lasts forever.

Worth repeating.
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  #80  
Old 7 February 2019, 12:33
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Originally Posted by magician View Post
None of us is taking a single cent with us when we die. But our honor, our integrity, our truth--that lasts forever.
Sig line material right there.
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