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  #1  
Old 5 October 2016, 13:31
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mdavid mdavid is offline
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Deputy Plunkett LASD is going to end up killing someone

By 2 min in deputy plunkett has his weapon pointed in with his finger on the trigger.
The PI doesn't seem to be doing anything to cause alarm....even with supervisors there the deputy is shaking, with finger on trigger.
Please, if any of you train officers or are responsible for molding them...please filter these guys out or train them correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLTpLmgRu4w

plunkett is a danger to himself and others. Not sure how anyone could watch the first 5 min and not come to that conclusion.
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Old 5 October 2016, 14:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavid View Post

By 2 min in deputy plunkett has his weapon pointed in with his finger on the trigger.
The PI doesn't seem to be doing anything to cause alarm....even with supervisors there the deputy is shaking, with finger on trigger.
Please, if any of you train officers or are responsible for molding them...please filter these guys out or train them correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLTpLmgRu4w

plunkett is a danger to himself and others. Not sure how anyone could watch the first 5 min and not come to that conclusion.
Plunkett is a fucking dickhead but apparently, the jury saw it differently:

"On April 20, 2015, Mr. Sheppard filed a civil lawsuit in federal court for violation of his constitutional rights, assault, battery, false imprisonment, intentional infliction of emotional distress and various other charges.

The trial took place last week in Los Angeles September 13 through September 15 before the Honorable S. James Otero. After hearing the evidence and viewing a small portion of the video evidence provided by Mr. Sheppard, a jury of 8 persons found in favor of the sheriff’s department."

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  #3  
Old 5 October 2016, 14:35
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Deputy Plunkett is also going to lose the tip of his left thumb if he ever squeezes off a round.
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  #4  
Old 5 October 2016, 15:52
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I'd be curious of a few things. Was this a dispatched call for service or a self initiated stop? If dispatched, what was the nature of the original call, suspect description etc.? If self initiated, what did he see that initiated said stop? I have no idea what he actually reached for, you can't see his other hand. I'm willing to give benefit of doubt to the officer in many cases, because for all I know (without doing more digging into this) the guy fit the description for someone or under such circumstances that may have warranted holding him at gunpoint. Yea, the guy in the car may know he hasn't done anything, but if there was a call for service for a suspicious person in a vehicle in the are where they just had an armed robbery etc., it may merit looking into (see previous discussion regarding Terry). Buuuuuuuuuut: A) If I have to hold you at gunpoint I am likely not doing so while remaining right at the driver's window (Though there is a debate over giving up ground to create distance etc), that's just me. B) Get your booger hook off the bang switch unless you are intending to engage. C) Glad to see the Sergeant had a cool head, because even after he showed up and didn't seem to perceive a threat, dude still had gun on point with booger hook engaged. It didn't seem like he was going to slide back down the escalation scale.

Was the stop good? I don't know, maybe circumstances depending. Did he handle the stop well? I don't know, maybe circumstances depending. I don't like remaining on point at near contact distance with the finger on the trigger though. The threat of lethal force is not supposed to be used solely for the purpose of compelling compliance. If you aren't going to shoot, or once you established you don't need to shoot right then, at least lower that damn thing. That's how bad shit happens.
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Old 5 October 2016, 15:55
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The biggest takeaway that I got from that video on its face value -- outside of the points FSB has brought out -- is that it appears to me that Plunkett simply "vapor locked" on him and comes across as he does not know "what to do next."

It's almost as though his supervisor had to "rescue" him from his vapor lock.
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Old 5 October 2016, 16:00
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This one escalated quickly.

Found a slanted but sourced article about the incident which displays the "Blue Line" at work. After they had "secured" Sheppard in a squad car other deputies are going over any offense that they could cite him for.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/0...n-working-car/

From the article:
"“During the course of the next several minutes, the Deputies on scene conspired to concoct a citable offense against Mr. Sheppard. These law enforcement officials attempted to justify Deputy Plunkett’s actions, ex post facto. Most critically, Deputy Hanson and Deputy Ramirez drafted a citation that was ultimately signed by Deputy Plunkett. Neither Deputy Hanson nor Deputy Ramirez was willing to personally sign the citation, after engaging in a lengthy discussion concerning the contents of said citation. As she was attempting to creatively fashion charges to be brought against Mr. Sheppard within the aforementioned citation, Deputy Hanson stated, ‘please, just let me taser him!’”"
The video linked https://youtu.be/wsd2HJKAi9U came from Sheppard's entire video. At 1:30 on this one you can clearly hear the deputy say "Please, just let me taser him."

The entire video is 26 minutes long. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjXIy65xz0c

I really do want to be on the side of police. Evidence like this makes it really hard to not trust the police from the start.
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Old 5 October 2016, 16:01
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FSB, what's your take on the Deputy grabbing Sheppard's wrist like he did?
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Old 5 October 2016, 16:01
DirtyDog0311 DirtyDog0311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
The biggest takeaway that I got from that video on its face value -- outside of the points FSB has brought out -- is that it appears to me that Plunkett simply "vapor locked" on him and comes across as he does not know "what to do next."

It's almost as though his supervisor had to "rescue" him from his vapor lock.
Yeah I noticed the chick that showed up immediately drew as well. Even when the supervisor was present he was still stuck on having that weapon out and pointed at the guy. I can't believe that got as far as it did. You could see the goat eyes on the officer plunkett. Completely lost in the sauce and defaulted to the standard posture when faced with someone who isn't cowering in fear --- draw weapon, assert authority (or at least it seems that's what it was).
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Old 5 October 2016, 16:03
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Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
I'd be curious of a few things. Was this a dispatched call for service or a self initiated stop? If dispatched, what was the nature of the original call, suspect description etc.? If self initiated, what did he see that initiated said stop? I have no idea what he actually reached for, you can't see his other hand. I'm willing to give benefit of doubt to the officer in many cases, because for all I know (without doing more digging into this) the guy fit the description for someone or under such circumstances that may have warranted holding him at gunpoint. Yea, the guy in the car may know he hasn't done anything, but if there was a call for service for a suspicious person in a vehicle in the are where they just had an armed robbery etc., it may merit looking into (see previous discussion regarding Terry). Buuuuuuuuuut: A) If I have to hold you at gunpoint I am likely not doing so while remaining right at the driver's window (Though there is a debate over giving up ground to create distance etc), that's just me. B) Get your booger hook off the bang switch unless you are intending to engage. C) Glad to see the Sergeant had a cool head, because even after he showed up and didn't seem to perceive a threat, dude still had gun on point with booger hook engaged. It didn't seem like he was going to slide back down the escalation scale.

Was the stop good? I don't know, maybe circumstances depending. Did he handle the stop well? I don't know, maybe circumstances depending. I don't like remaining on point at near contact distance with the finger on the trigger though. The threat of lethal force is not supposed to be used solely for the purpose of compelling compliance. If you aren't going to shoot, or once you established you don't need to shoot right then, at least lower that damn thing. That's how bad shit happens.
According to articles, the deputy was not dispatched.

Is there anything at all defensible to say about the deputy cocking the hammer back? That alone just screams that it is not trained and certainly not part of any established procedure.
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Old 5 October 2016, 16:21
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While over 2 years old, this deputy stole the honor of everyone in tan and blue and was assisted by his female colleagues as they made up bullshit to warrant his incompetency.

Once again, we see contempt of cop as a capital offense.
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Old 5 October 2016, 17:04
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Ok, after watching the whole thing (painful as that damn door dinger was with my head phones on), allow me to elaborate my thoughts. To answer your questions Shadow, officers can legally order someone out of a vehicle. I have on multiple occasions done so myself, and often I will take control of a wrist immediately because they're likely going directly into handcuffs. IF it were a situation that warranted that, then controlling a hand/wrist is good to go.

The only articles I could find clearly had a slant, however they stated that apparently this was a self initiated stop by the Deputy so I'll operate under that assumption. If it were truly just a case of JDLR (just don't look right), and there were no other factors such as a dispatched call for XYZ, then my opinion would be yes, the Deputy over reacted and escalated the situation. As far as cocking the hammer goes, pointing a gun at someone is pointing a gun at someone as far as I'm concerned. The same rules of firearm safety and use of lethal force do not change based on the condition of the hammer or striker. Last, did they "conspire" to trump up charges? No. However they did issue what appears to be a chicken shit traffic ticket when the stop was a bust. The issue of two other Deputies refusing to sign the ticket is a non issue. You stop it, you observe the (alleged) violation, you clean it. Where I work, the complaint/ticket has to be signed by the witnessing/arresting officer. So that said, it wasn't a "this is so bad I refuse to put my name on it," it was more likely a procedural paperwork issue. All in all, it appeared (to me) to have possibly started as a perfectly valid stop based on whatever the Deputy thought he saw, however it went downhill from there and it was being driven by the Deputy, and finally resulted in a chicken shit citation. YMMV.
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  #12  
Old 5 October 2016, 17:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post

...To answer your questions Shadow, officers can legally order someone out of a vehicle. I have on multiple occasions done so myself, and often I will take control of a wrist immediately because they're likely going directly into handcuffs. IF it were a situation that warranted that, then controlling a hand/wrist is good to go...
Thanks for your response, FSB.

The reason I asked is because it appeared to me that the wrist-grab was Plunkett's way of asserting his authority after having been challenged by Sheppard telling him to holster his weapon. I could be wrong but by the look on his face when Sheppard addressed him, it seems like that was the moment when everything started to go south.
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Old 5 October 2016, 18:12
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Old video; doesn't seem like he's immediately dangerous...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agoge View Post
The biggest takeaway that I got from that video on its face value -- outside of the points FSB has brought out -- is that it appears to me that Plunkett simply "vapor locked" on him and comes across as he does not know "what to do next."

It's almost as though his supervisor had to "rescue" him from his vapor lock.
I agree. I think he couldn't figure out a way to de-escalate the situation without "losing face". Reminded me a lot of the HRC podium video where her handler had to break her lose and get her moving again. The driver did himself no favor by playing the "call your watch commander" game. I don't think any officer is going to walk away and call his supervisor until things have at a minimum calmed down. If the supervisor was required at EVERY traffic stop, you might as well make everyone a supervisor.
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Old 5 October 2016, 18:19
Stretch Stretch is offline
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I think this a repost, posted my me:

We were pulled over in East St. Louis, circa '85, when one in that back seat over reached over the seat of a SW to grab the glass gallon jug of water that had been rolling around. The driver, an old middle/high school friend said to do so. His mother sent him to practice with water. Whose mom doesn't..

The flashers went off as soon as the the Officer's head lights hit the glass jug.

The E STL LEO approached with hand on holstered weapon. When he asked me if I was nervous, I said yes; you have your hand on your weapon. It de-escalated quickly. One LEO and four punky white kids.

I hate to think about four black kids riding around doing much a nuthin and a Sharif Phlunkett, with a complete lack of everything, pulled them over...
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Old 5 October 2016, 19:38
IrishSoldier IrishSoldier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
As far as cocking the hammer goes, pointing a gun at someone is pointing a gun at someone as far as I'm concerned. The same rules of firearm safety and use of lethal force do not change based on the condition of the hammer or striker. .
Seriously? cocking the weapons becuase that's what 1980's cool guy detecives like Magnum PI and Simon and Simon would do when they needed to show they were serious isnt an issue?

There is no way any LE department instructs their officers to cock their hanguns. The double action trigger pull is one of the saftey features of that type of weapon, by cocking it he just increased the chance of an ND. Would it be okay if he put his finger on a glock trigger and took all the slack out of it while he was arguing with citizen shit head?

He's a bad cop, just like there are bad SF guys, bad Marines and bad sailors.
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Old 5 October 2016, 19:46
Rich Gause Rich Gause is offline
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I wonder what was wrong with the Plunkett jury. Maybe they are so unfamiliar with firearms other than what they see on TV they have no idea what is reasonable or not?
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Old 5 October 2016, 20:00
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Originally Posted by IrishSoldier View Post
Seriously? cocking the weapons becuase that's what 1980's cool guy detecives like Magnum PI and Simon and Simon would do when they needed to show they were serious isnt an issue?

There is no way any LE department instructs their officers to cock their hanguns. The double action trigger pull is one of the saftey features of that type of weapon, by cocking it he just increased the chance of an ND. Would it be okay if he put his finger on a glock trigger and took all the slack out of it while he was arguing with citizen shit head?

He's a bad cop, just like there are bad SF guys, bad Marines and bad sailors.
Yes, seriously. I fear you misunderstood what I meant (perhaps my fault). Would you be ok with me pointing a gun at you just because it wasn't cocked? Of course not. That's my point, pointing a gun at someone is pointing a gun at someone. Either you have good reason for doing so, or not. As far as how they are carried, department specific. I carry a 1911 in condition 1, so I'm always ready to rock .
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Old 5 October 2016, 20:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post
Ok, after watching the whole thing (painful as that damn door dinger was with my head phones on), allow me to elaborate my thoughts. To answer your questions Shadow, officers can legally order someone out of a vehicle. I have on multiple occasions done so myself, and often I will take control of a wrist immediately because they're likely going directly into handcuffs. IF it were a situation that warranted that, then controlling a hand/wrist is good to go.

The only articles I could find clearly had a slant, however they stated that apparently this was a self initiated stop by the Deputy so I'll operate under that assumption. If it were truly just a case of JDLR (just don't look right), and there were no other factors such as a dispatched call for XYZ, then my opinion would be yes, the Deputy over reacted and escalated the situation. As far as cocking the hammer goes, pointing a gun at someone is pointing a gun at someone as far as I'm concerned. The same rules of firearm safety and use of lethal force do not change based on the condition of the hammer or striker. Last, did they "conspire" to trump up charges? No. However they did issue what appears to be a chicken shit traffic ticket when the stop was a bust. The issue of two other Deputies refusing to sign the ticket is a non issue. You stop it, you observe the (alleged) violation, you clean it. Where I work, the complaint/ticket has to be signed by the witnessing/arresting officer. So that said, it wasn't a "this is so bad I refuse to put my name on it," it was more likely a procedural paperwork issue. All in all, it appeared (to me) to have possibly started as a perfectly valid stop based on whatever the Deputy thought he saw, however it went downhill from there and it was being driven by the Deputy, and finally resulted in a chicken shit citation. YMMV.
FSB thanks for answering.

On further review I cannot definitely say the deputy went to single action. I based it on the sound and his thumb position.

I just do not understand the need to escalate to lethal force. Driver already noted he had his gun out. I get that cops deal with bad people and even evil people. Do they not address how serious it is to aim a gun at someone's head? The Deputy made it a deadly force situation not the driver.

Then the legal gang bang they pulled on the driver was far more than chickenshit. That was cover for the Deputy's dumb actions and continue the intimidation.
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Old 5 October 2016, 20:07
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Front_Sight_Bang View Post

...I carry a 1911...
Good man.
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  #20  
Old 5 October 2016, 20:21
Armitage12 Armitage12 is offline
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FSB and others: so I'm John Q. Public, I've not shaved, I'm tired after 12 hours, and I stink. I look bad, I'm sketchy. But I'm secretly Mr. Rogers, I teach orphans how to find unicorns, and I love my mother and grandmother. You pull me over.

What do you want me to be saying that helps to deescalate in exactly this kind of situation? I like Stretch's story. Do I tell my sons to say that, or something else, esp. if it is all getting recorded on the GoProBlueCam there?
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