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Old 27 January 2018, 11:36
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Push Ups (Good Form)

So yesterday was a form day for me, low reps (10) and many sets (10), but perfect (or near perfect) form (start in the up position, straight body line, lower the body - under control - until the arms are parallel to the floor, return to the full extended up position, pause for a one count and repeat); it's a pain by the time you reach set 5 (30 second rests in between), but it focuses all the muscle groups and smokes me by the time I finish.

Anyway, after I got done, I thought about how many times during the usual 2-minute APFT drill how form basically goes out the door anywhere between count 40 and 60 and although there are some good evaluators, who don't let anything slide, generally I've seen some iffy repetitions counted during the test. So my thought is the following, what if the push up event was changed to a perfect form criteria using a 2 second per repetition standard with no time limit instead of the current do as many as you can one in the current time allotted? I think this would be a much better evaluation of a service member's upper body strength.

I think that even the most PT of PT beasts would be smoked by a 50 count.

Your thoughts?
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Old 27 January 2018, 11:57
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No. You are forgetting the purpose of physical fitness tests. Don't feel bad about that, as Army leadership forgets this at least once a year, and wastes a lot of money developing new tests that are never implemented.

First, the physical fitness test is not a workout. It is designed to provide a snapshot of a member's physical fitness. The intent is not to "smoke" anyone. The test should to be simple and able to be conducted anywhere without specialized equipment. It needs to be short enough to allow large groups of personnel to be tested within a relatively short period of time.

Second, the current Army PFT does not allow for a soldier's form to degrade as the reps increase. If you want to correct an issue, the first step is to correctly identify the problem. You are failing to correctly identify the problem, and then coming up with a solution which will fail to correct anything. Once again, you are in good company, as military leadership is really, really good at coming up with the wrong answer because they never correctly identified the nature of a perceived problem.

So, right back at you. What problem have you identified?
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Old 27 January 2018, 12:03
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Most people don't get the training versus testing concept.
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Old 27 January 2018, 12:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Second, the current Army PFT does not allow for a soldier's form to degrade as the reps increase. If you want to correct an issue, the first step is to correctly identify the problem. You are failing to correctly identify the problem, and then coming up with a solution which will fail to correct anything. Once again, you are in good company, as military leadership is really, really good at coming up with the wrong answer because they never correctly identified the nature of a perceived problem.

So, right back at you. What problem have you identified?
Inter-rater reliability is the problem. Some units have some true guardians of standards, some don't. My thoughts are how can the APFT be simplified (maybe the wrong word) so that raters/evaluators/graders can visually see every repetition to its full extent every time.
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Old 27 January 2018, 12:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaclerk View Post
My thoughts are how can the APFT be simplified (maybe the wrong word) so that raters/evaluators/graders can visually see every repetition to its full extent every time.
An evaluator can correctly identify proper form on every repetition with the current test. You are still failing to identify the issue.

Every failure in the military is a leadership failure, period.

You have misidentified a leadership failure as being a failure inherent to the current PFT. Some leaders fail to enforce evaluation standards with the current PFT. You can change the PFT, make it slower, faster, have it done in MOPP gear, conduct it on the moon, whatever. The same leaders will fail to enforce evaluation standards, and we'll be right back to this discussion about how to fix a problem supposedly inherent to the test, when the problem is not the test. Sort of like liberals and gun control laws. Liberal politicians in government fail to enforce existing laws, then call for more gun control, because there are still crimes involving guns.
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Old 27 January 2018, 12:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
An evaluator can correctly identify proper form on every repetition with the current test.
Legit.

Re: push up form - fist under chest, no contact, no rep credit. For workouts or the random PFT I put something under me that's of equivalent height of my closed fist on the deck. Then reps are always to standard in depth.
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Old 30 January 2018, 08:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc P View Post
Legit.

Re: push up form - fist under chest, no contact, no rep credit. For workouts or the random PFT I put something under me that's of equivalent height of my closed fist on the deck. Then reps are always to standard in depth.
Going lower is better (and harder) - greater range of motion recruits more motor units. I understand the Mil not wanting 'bouncing' reps, because just like bouncing bench/deads, etc - it cheats you - but from an improvement perspective, getting handles or using chairs, etc is better. I use those "Perfect Pushup" handles, but anything will do (3 cinderblocks, etc...).
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Old 30 January 2018, 14:03
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Exclamation

Oops: Fitness Trackers Reveal Location of US Bases

Discovered by accident after a college looked at maps around the globe, the fitness paths of US military personnel were discovered to available on the Internet. Popular trackers like Fitbit and Jawbone have been actively promoted by the Pentagon in a program to fight obesity among service members. The problem is those trackers upload daily jogging routes and activity to the Internet. Though names are not revealed, the existence of US personnel around the world is. And in some cases, those routes can easily verify the existence of secret US operations as well as patrol routes and schedules. This is a major security fail for the DOD, which is actively trying to prevent another Snowden event.
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